Atlanta/Orlando game thread

[Zone034life]

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Most of the board jumped all over Marvin for one bad scrimmage game and called for his starting spot all weekend long because he wasn't aggressive enough! Now that you saw it in the very next game he played, as a fan the response should be "wow" I was so d_mn wrong!

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This guy is telling me I should say I was wrong for my assessment of Marvin on saturday. Now since he listened to a game on the radio and saw the boxscore he is going overboard. Stats can be decieving. I posted Sekous comments for guys like him who are trying to say "I told you so." How can you properly assess a game by hearing a radio broadcast? I am simply saying it would be better to go by someone who cavers the team and was present last night than your own opinion right now. When you go down to phillips or see a game with your own eyes then you can disregard Sekou or any other writer who covers the NBA and put your assessment over theres. Until then I suggest you go by an eyewitness account instead of blindly following a boxscore.

[DJlaysitup]

Front line"

Zaza

J.O.

J.S.

would be killer IMHO.

[thesheedera]

Thanks for the lecture, but I'll figure out how to follow basketball my own way, if you don't mind.

FWIW, I think Sekou's article is an attempt to set a precedent and raise his own bar for how he'll evaluate Marvin over the course of the year. Sekou's handled Marvin pretty delicately so far and seems to adhere to the notion that in his 3rd year we'd find out who/what Marvin really is. Now that the 3rd season is here, he'll no longer treating him as a young prospect, but rather as a player that should be counted on to produce effectively, efficiently, and consistently.

Personally, I'm right ther with him.

[Diesel]

If you want to go by numbers, Sekou's right, Marvin should get more than 3 boards. In less time, Horford (who weighs about the same) got 7 of them.

But it's still good to see Marvin trying to be aggressive... and I'm glad, he didn't make excuses for what he perceived was his bad play.

[exodus]

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Front line"

Zaza

J.O.

J.S.

would be killer IMHO.

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I think it is a great idea to pay $20 million to a 44% shooter who is injury and turnover prone.

[DJlaysitup]

OK- heres what.

you trade Horford and change for O.Niel. Win now.

[Diesel]

After Saturday's scrimmage, I say that Marvin and others should be made to earn their playing time.... Woody should play our best five..

AND you say:

"Diesel was going nuts after 1 scrimmage".

I'm sorry Peoria, but I'm not spooning with any player over one game. I think that the starters should be made up of people who have earned the positions. If that's talking out of both sides of my mouth... then so be it.

I would rather do that, than be mealymouthed like yourself!

[Diesel]

The problem with trading for Oneal is the uncertainty of his health and the uncertainty of how good Horford will be.

If Oneal was 100% healthy without 2 years of injuries, I would be on board with you. However, his injury pattern is scary right now. It's hard to invest that much into a guy who's not dependable.

How do you feel about Gasol?

[DJlaysitup]

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The problem with trading for Oneal is the uncertainty of his health and the uncertainty of how good Horford will be.

If Oneal was 100% healthy without 2 years of injuries, I would be on board with you. However, his injury pattern is scary right now. It's hard to invest that much into a guy who's not dependable.

How do you feel about Gasol?

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I took that all into consideration. My gut feeling is that JO is a relatively safe bet.

Gasol doesn't have JO's upside.

PS - although I would love to have Pau G.

[Diesel]

That's a good matchup to compare. I don't think JO has any more upside. Where's he going to improve.

JO is a better defender.... but I would say that Gasol is a better scorer.

[Duff_Man]

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The problem with trading for Oneal is the uncertainty of his health and the uncertainty of how good Horford will be.

If Oneal was 100% healthy without 2 years of injuries, I would be on board with you. However, his injury pattern is scary right now. It's hard to invest that much into a guy who's not dependable.

How do you feel about Gasol?

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`

I took that all into consideration. My gut feeling is that JO is a relatively safe bet.

Gasol doesn't have JO's upside.

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Upside? When will he hit his peak? 38 years old?

[DJlaysitup]

Close...I actually think JO has some upside.

[Lascar78]

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I don't consider this a good victory.

Howard went out of the game with 7 1/2 minutes left on the clock... Orlando was up by 9.

He had dominated the post all game long.

If we're going to be contenders, we got to do better!

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This is bull. Their best player played 28 minutes, our best player played 27. And after Dwight went out, we had 4 bench guys and Marvin. It was basically backups vs backups.

I agree that the win means very little, but last night sounded great for our whole team (except for defending Dwight), particularly Smith, Marvin, Chill, Horford and Law.

[Peoriabird]

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After Saturday's scrimmage, I say that Marvin and others should be made to earn their playing time.... Woody should play our best five..

AND you say:

"Diesel was going nuts after 1 scrimmage".

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Wrong guy! Never said that!

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I'm sorry Peoria, but I'm not spooning with any player over one game. I think that the starters should be made up of people who have earned the positions. If that's talking out of both sides of my mouth... then so be it.

I would rather do that, than be mealymouthed like yourself!

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Hmmmm mealymouth! one who speaks indirectly or beats around the bush. I have no idea what you are trying to say but no one said that Marvin played great just more aggressive which is what posters have been calling for! This he should get credit for it!

[thesheedera]

I don't even think he needs to get "credit", I just think posters should be allowed to express joy over one of our own players doing what we hoped he would do. Whether it's for one night or the whole season, there shouldn't be backlash from other hawks fans when some fans are excited about one of the players.

There damn sure will be criticism when he plays poorly, so we should be allowed to show excitement when he does something well.

[Peoriabird]

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I don't even think he needs to get "credit", I just think posters should be allowed to express joy over one of our own players doing what we hoped he would do. Whether it's for one night or the whole season, there shouldn't be backlash from other hawks fans when some fans are excited about one of the players.

There damn sure will be criticism when he plays poorly, so we should be allowed to show excitement when he does something well.

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Agreed!

[drzachary]

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I don't even think he needs to get "credit", I just think posters should be allowed to express joy over one of our own players doing what we hoped he would do. Whether it's for one night or the whole season, there shouldn't be backlash from other hawks fans when some fans are excited about one of the players.

There damn sure will be criticism when he plays poorly, so we should be allowed to show excitement when he does something well.

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You don't understand, sheedera. Expressing joy over players like Marvin/Shelden/fill-in-the-blank makes you an APOLOGIST, not a fan. Apparently.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Most of the board jumped all over Marvin for one bad scrimmage game and called for his starting spot all weekend long because he wasn't aggressive enough! Now that you saw it in the very next game he played, as a fan the response should be "wow" I was so d_mn wrong!

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This guy is telling me I should say I was wrong for my assessment of Marvin on saturday. Now since he listened to a game on the radio and saw the boxscore he is going overboard. Stats can be decieving. I posted Sekous comments for guys like him who are trying to say "I told you so." How can you properly assess a game by hearing a radio broadcast? I am simply saying it would be better to go by someone who cavers the team and was present last night than your own opinion right now. When you go down to phillips or see a game with your own eyes then you can disregard Sekou or any other writer who covers the NBA and put your assessment over theres. Until then I suggest you go by an eyewitness account instead of blindly following a boxscore.

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Zone, don't you get it though? The vast majority of this fan base holds Marvin to a much higher standard, based on his #2 selection, than assessing how he's actually progressing as a player. Everybody expects this kid to be LeBron James, even though he doesn't have LeBron James talent.

That's why some of you flip out over lackluster scrimmage games, or reports in the paper that he's going to school, and not devoting his entire 24 day to basketball. It's not enough for some of you for Marvin to "just" be a good player. He has to be a star.

Until he shows flashes of becoming a star player, it won't be nearly enough for some of you. If Marvin shot 47% FG this year, but only averaged 15 ppg and 6 rebs, a lot of you would still flat out call him a bust . . even if it was obvious that the two best players on the team, and the most potent offensive weapons, are JJ and Smoove. Because he wouldn't be emerging as a star, people would see him as a failure.

Marvin Williams is in the same boat that Mario Williams of the Houston Texans is in. Both guys were picked ahead of more popular, and possibly, more talented guys. Both guys, because of that, were expected to IMMEADIATELY be impact players on their respective teams. When it didn't happen, all kinds of criticizm is heaped upon them. Neither guy is a BAD PLAYER. But they may never be the SUPERSTAR player of the guys picked behind them.

Here's a list of #2 picks in recent drafts:

2007 - Durant

2006 - Aldridge

2005 - M. Williams

2004 - Okafor

2003 - Milicic

2002 - Jay Williams ( Duke )

2001 - Tyson Chandler

2000 - Stromile Swift

1999 - Steve Francis

1998 - Mike Bibby

1997 - Keith Van Horn

When I look at that list, I see ONE star player, and even he's a schizophrenic star, in Stevie Franchise. Bibby had a few very good years. So did Van Horn. Okafor is a nice player who stock seems to be rising.

The one characteristic to look at with this list, is which player was able to start right away for their teams as a rookie. Van Horn, Francis, Bibby, Okafor, and Durant this year, will be or were rookie starters. Chandler, Milicic, M. Williams, J. Williams, and Aldridge were not.

Jay williams had the unfortunate motorcycle accident.

Aldridge is progressing, and will start this year.

Milicic rode the pine in Detroit for 3 years, before finally being able to showcase what he can do as a player.

Chandler's progression was slow, until he got traded to New Orleans. Then he blew up as a defensive shot blocker and dominant rebounder.

And Marvin? Year 2 saw him inserted into the starting lineup, get off to the slow start because of his hand, and finish strong to close the season.

I still say that Marvin would be even further along in his progression, had the Hawks done what they should've done, and got rid of Harrington in the summer of 2005. That would've cleared more PT for Smoove, Marvin, and Chill in the 05 - 06 season, instead of playing behind Harrington for another year.

[thesheedera]

Just a bunch of oily hype producing machines with excuse byproduct spilling out of our sides.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I don't consider this a good victory.

Howard went out of the game with 7 1/2 minutes left on the clock... Orlando was up by 9.

He had dominated the post all game long.

If we're going to be contenders, we got to do better!

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This is bull. Their best player played 28 minutes, our best player played 27. And after Dwight went out, we had 4 bench guys and Marvin. It was basically backups vs backups.

I agree that the win means very little, but last night sounded great for our whole team (except for defending Dwight), particularly Smith, Marvin, Chill, Horford and Law.

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JJ left the game for the final time, with 3:56 left to go in the 3rd quarter.

SCORE: ATLANTA 62 - ORLANDO 58