Marc Stein Espn NBA Chat

[Traceman]

and Jamison's numbers are still roughly the same 20/8/2 that he has always averaged. Jamison rarely gets doubled and Butler NEVER gets doubled when Arenas is on the floor.

Jamison can get his points with or without Gil but his numbers are empty numbers in the same mold as Shareef's without Gil. When they plyed together in GS, the team was not as good because Gil still deferred to Jamison too much. That is not the case now and the team is much better because Gil is the go to guy.

Butler is shooting the best he's ever shot since playing with Gil so Gil must be doing something right from the PG position. Gil is not the traditional PG but he puts so much pressure on the D because he is a playmaker. When he goes to the rack, he is either going to score, get fouled or get an easy shot for one of his teammates.

If Gil were here in place of JJ, there is no doubt in my mind that we would be in the playoffs barring injury. We could start:

Horford

Smoove

Marvin

Chillz

Gil

and absolutely run teams out of the gym. We could also slide Gil to the 2 and let Law run the point at times.

I don't think Smoove would get frustrated with Gil at all because Smoove doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective and he would get a lot of wide open shots.

I love JJ and I am really happy he is here, I just happen to think that Gil is a borderline top 10 player in this league. I am not saying that there is not room for Gil to improve either, he certainly can. Jordan didn't start really winning until he started setting up his teammates more and Gil will realize the same thing. It takes time but I think his talent would make it worth the wait.

[AtLaS]

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Butler is shooting the best he's ever shot since playing with Gil so Gil must be doing something right from the PG position.

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Not to mention Larry Hughes also had a career season playing with Gilbert and they had 3 all-stars that year. That team was absolutely nothing until Gilbert arrived.

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I just happen to think that Gil is a borderline top 10 player in this league.

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Gilbert is a top 10 player IMO. Obviously he's inconsistent, but it doesn't mean he STILL isn't top 10.

Washington's problem is defense and coaching, they SUCK at defense and Eddie Jordan is on Woodson's level. Jamison, as good as he is offensively, is probably WORSE as a defender, he is just beyond bad. Caron Butler also sucks at D, and Gilbert is no saint either. It's funny that they don't play Heywood much because they are so much better with him, but I guess that can be attributed to EJ's stupidity.

[Plainview1981]

IF JJ couldn't get to the playoffs with Bulter/Jamison he sure can't get to the playoffs with a team that doesn't even have a legit second option.

[Traceman]

1. Bryant

2. Wade

3. James

4. Duncan

5. Nowitzki

6. Garnett

7. Nash

8. Yao

9. Amare

10. Bosh

Gil, Boozer, T Mac, D. Howard, Carmelo and Brand are all right there as well.

[AtLaS]

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1. Bryant

2. Wade

3. James

4. Duncan

5. Nowitzki

6. Garnett

7. Nash

8. Yao

9. Amare

10. Bosh

Gil, Boozer, T Mac, D. Howard, Carmelo and Brand are all right there as well.

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Yeah it's tough to make a true top 10. I would consider Gilbert/Amare/Bosh/Brand/Tmac/Carmelo all to be on about the same level. Any of those could be in the top 10.

[mudderfudder77]

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1. Bryant

2. Wade

3. James

4. Duncan

5. Nowitzki

6. Garnett

7. Nash

8. Yao

9. Amare

10. Bosh

Gil, Boozer, T Mac, D. Howard, Carmelo and Brand are all right there as well.

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I can't condone any list that has Duncan as the fourth best player in the league.

And Amare as the 9th best...

[AtLaS]

Read the title of his post.

[Traceman]

than 4. I actually see Duncan as #2 behind Kobe right now but only because he is getting a little older. Two years ago, I thought he was the best player in the NBA.

[mudderfudder77]

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Read the title of his post.

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I just now read it.

I'm an idiot.

[Plainview1981]

Bryant

Wade

LeBron

Garnett

Duncan

Dirk

Nash

Arenas

Bosh

Carmelo

Close but no cigar: Ray Allen, Amare Stoudmire, Paul Pierce, Yao Ming.

I don't think Tmac has got it the way that he used to. He has good numbers, but when I watch him he just doesn't seem as good as he was with Toronto and Orlando.

Ming had an outstanding year, but I'm not sure he is a 25PPG player with lack of conditioning.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Butler is shooting the best he's ever shot since playing with Gil so Gil must be doing something right from the PG position.

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Not to mention Larry Hughes also had a career season playing with Gilbert and they had 3 all-stars that year. That team was absolutely nothing until Gilbert arrived.

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I just happen to think that Gil is a borderline top 10 player in this league.

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Gilbert is a top 10 player IMO. Obviously he's inconsistent, but it doesn't mean he STILL isn't top 10.

Washington's problem is defense and coaching, they SUCK at defense and Eddie Jordan is on Woodson's level. Jamison, as good as he is offensively, is probably WORSE as a defender, he is just beyond bad. Caron Butler also sucks at D, and Gilbert is no saint either. It's funny that they don't play Heywood much because they are so much better with him, but I guess that can be attributed to EJ's stupidity.

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Classic quote from Gilbert last season:

"I'm a goof. C'mon, everyone knows that," Arenas said. "I look at my elders as the leaders. I don't want nobody looking at me. How can I tell somebody 'Don't shoot that shot' when I'm out there chucking 'em?"

classic!

This is your "top 10 in the league caliber" player saying this. Could you imagine something like this coming out of the mouth of Kobe? Lebron? Wade? Even JJ?

But let's give some background to what set all of this up last February.

Jamison goes down with a knee injury. He's pretty much the UNDISPUTED team leader of the Wiz, not Arenas. By his own admission, Arenas doesn't WANT to be a leader. So now, the Wiz have to do it for a while without their 2nd leading scorer. The Wiz promptly go 1 - 4.

Arenas' stats during those 5 games:

23.6 ppg

4.8 rebs

4.2 asst

85.7% FT ( 42 - 49 )

Great numbers for most people . . . until you look at what he shot.

33.7% FG . . ( 101 shots )

20% 3FG . . ( 40 3-point attempts )

Also during these 5 games, the Wiz as a team gave up:

119 points to Toronto

118 to the Lakers

108 to the Sonics

110 to the Spurs

and 94 to Portland, a game in which the lost by 21 points . . at home.

Because of this, Eddie Jordan was trying to stress to his team to play defense. I know. A foreign concept in Washington right? But that self-proclaimed "goof", halfway rips Jordan after the Portland loss, saying that the coach's overemphasis on defense contributed to the Wizards' fourth loss in five games.

Are you (( bleepin )) serious? They gave up all of those points in that 5 game stretch, and he doesn't think defense is the main reason why they lose?

And that Portland game was the infamous "I'm going to score 50 points on Portand" prediction game, to get back at Nate McMillan for cutting me . . like he's Uma Thurman in Kill Bill or something.

Remember why he made that prediction? It was in reference to him being left off of TEAM USA in the summer of 2006. I bet you forgot that about Arenas.

He got left off of Team USA because the guy is NOT a team player AT ALL. He let so-called lesser players like Hinrich, Battier, Paul, and even JJ, beat him out for a spot. And you know why? Because the guy just isn't a team player. He's a ME player. Much more of a ME player than Kobe or Iverson.

And the only top 10 . . even top 15 players in the league, that didn't make Team USA, are the ones tht didn't receive an invite in the first place, or the ones who flat out declined the invitation, because of various reasons. All of the other top players made the team . . except Arenas.

Yes, Gilbert is a good player, because he does have stretches where he's literally unstoppable. Yes, he's one of the more clutch players in the league.

But when you actually sit down and watch him play, you constantly wonder why he does what he does. If you're a guy that can literally get to the hole anytime you want, why are you taking threes, after you've missed 6 consecutive three-point shots?

People talk about Smoove's BBIQ being low. Smoove is a basketball Mensa member, compared to Arenas.

[Packfill]

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North, I couldn't agree with you less. Arenas is one of the few scoring PG's that actually makes their team better. Washington has thoroughly overachieved since he got there.

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Arenas' 2006 - 07 stats in wins vs losses:

IN WINS ( 39 wins )

32.4 ppg

6.6 assists

4.8 rebs

1.9 stls

48.5% FG

42.7% 3FG

85.5% FT

Those are ELITE SUPERSTAR type numbers

IN LOSSES ( 35 losses )

24.1 ppg

5.3 assists

4.3 rebs

1.8 stls

33.9% FG

26.7% 3FG

83.2% FT

Those are I DON'T KNOW WHEN TO STOP SHOOTING type numbers.

You'd be hard pressed to find one other superstar or even star player in this league, that has that dramatic of a falloff in shooting, than Arenas. His teammates don't have that type of dramatic dropoff in shooting when they lose, so the blame has to go on Arenas when that team loses . . which is about 1/2 the time.

The only other guy that even remotely comes close to Arenas as far as playing good or bad in wins and losses, is our very own Joe Johnson. But even his numbers don't come close to the falloff that Arenas does. And his numbers only really fall off in the 3-point range category and in assists.

He goes from an incredible 52% shoter overall from the field and a 49% shooter from 3-point range in wins . . to a 44% FG shooter and a 31% 3FG shooter in losses. He also dips from 5.5 assists, to a little over 3 assists a game.

If the Hawks were offered a deal to trade JJ for Arenas, straight up, there's no way in hell I'm making that deal. None.

If the same deal came up for Kobe for JJ, I'm packing JJ's bags as we speak.

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I am pretty sure that in a large number of the Wizard's losses last year at least one of Jamison and Butler were out so obviously one less person for the opposition to guard.

I think 32 out of 32 NBA GMs trade JJ for Arenas no questions asked.

[prolific25]

You realize you just typed that huge essay to show how bad Gilbert's BBIQ is and how bad his shot selection is yet he is still a more efficient scorer than Joe WHILE taking tougher shots. There is no way Joe is as good as Gilbert.

[AtLaS]

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Jamison's pretty much the UNDISPUTED team leader of the Wiz, not Arenas.

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And he also might be the worst defender in the entire NBA.

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So now, the Wiz have to do it for a while without their 2nd leading scorer. The Wiz promptly go 1 - 4.

Arenas' stats during those 5 games:

23.6 ppg

4.8 rebs

4.2 asst

85.7% FT ( 42 - 49 )

Great numbers for most people . . . until you look at what he shot.

33.7% FG . . ( 101 shots )

20% 3FG . . ( 40 3-point attempts )

Also during these 5 games, the Wiz as a team gave up:

119 points to Toronto

118 to the Lakers

108 to the Sonics

110 to the Spurs

and 94 to Portland, a game in which the lost by 21 points . . at home.

Because of this, Eddie Jordan was trying to stress to his team to play defense. I know. A foreign concept in Washington right? But that self-proclaimed "goof", halfway rips Jordan after the Portland loss, saying that

the coach's overemphasis on

defense

contributed to the Wizards' fourth loss in five games.

Are you (( bleepin )) serious?

They gave up all of those points in that 5 game stretch, and he doesn't think defense is the main reason why they lose?

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Eddie Jordan is an absolutely HORRIBLE coach whether you want to admit it or not. And I don't base my opinion on a player based on 5 games in a season. And Gilbert always says crazy things, that's just how he is, it doesn't mean he isn't a top 10 player IMO.

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He got left off of Team USA because the guy is NOT a team player AT ALL. He let so-called lesser players like Hinrich, Battier, Paul, and even JJ, beat him out for a spot. And you know why? Because the guy just isn't a team player. He's a ME player. Much more of a ME player than Kobe or Iverson.

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Iverson didn't get invited a couple of years ago either. And Arenas was on the team a few years ago, he didn't do well though.

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But when you actually sit down and watch him play, you constantly wonder why he does what he does. If you're a guy that can literally get to the hole anytime you want, why are you taking threes, after you've missed 6 consecutive three-point shots?

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Again, I agree that he doesn't know when to stop shooting, but he's still a very efficient player REGARDLESS.

[atlien]

Seriously, if he read this thread, he'd go out of his way to drop 40 on us every game this season. And he'd probably do it too. The dude is crazy.

Northcyde, while I see your argument, I think you underrate just how dangerous of a scorer Arenas is. IMO, There's not a single GM in the league that would take Joe over Arenas. No knock to Joe, but Arenas is just slightly on a higher level.

I always didnt like Arenas much, but reading his NBA blog changed me. The dude is just a genuine guy. Slighly eccentric of course, but really genuine.

http://www.nba.com/blog/gilbert_arenas.html

Go down and read the entry entitled "Know Who You're Writing About" (on March 22, 2007).

That entry was definitely the one that changed me. It's hard not to like the guy (see where he's coming from) after reading it.

[TexasPete]

Gilbert Arenas is a knucklehead. And knuckleheads don't win NBA titles. Period.

His defense is so bad it's embarrassing. Many times when I'm in the arena I watch Arenas on defense and it is just abyssmal. He doesn't really try.

People always forget about defense on this site when they discuss players.

Gilbert will NEVER play for a serious contender because the things that go into serious winning, he refuses to do.

He can put the ball in the hole, great. He shoots enough, thats for damn sure. He has his Adidas spots for all of the masses who think that chuckers deserve to sell shoes.

I'll never forget when Lebron whispered in Arenas ear right before those two HUGE free throws in the playoffs...he told Gil that he was gonna CHOKE. He knew Gilbert. What did Gil do? He CHOKED.

How many truly great players brick those free throws? JJ doesn't miss those when somebody calls him out like that but Lebron wouldnt call JJ out. He knows Arenas is a major head case and he was right.

[Lascar78]

Yeah Gilbert plays Allen Iverson defense, all about the steal.

[drzachary]

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People always forget about defense on this site when they discuss players.

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Well, to reiterate a point I always make: people forget about defense because defense is forgettable. It's bad for basketball, and I look forward to the day when the NBA rules outlaw it!

[TexasPete]

True...I love it when he falsely hustles on a bad gamble and then yells Whooo Whooo...he needs the rock on the break baby.

[Traceman]

epitome of a knucklehead.