Joe Torre

[Admin]

I respect the hell out of Torre but I couldn't be happier that he won't be managing the Yankees any more. Ironically, he simply couldn't adjust to the National League style of play that the young teams that knocked the Yankees off the past 5-6 years have employed. He severely over used the bullpen and had it not been for having Mariano I believe he would have been fired years ago because Mariano saved his butt so many times. I am a huge Girardi fan and I think he got the shaft down in Florida and will hopefully make the Yankees a much more fundamentally grounded team that runs the bases and plays great defense and wins with pitching. I would have been happy with Tony Pena as well and if he doesn't stay with the Yankees this year (he has said he would return if asked) I sure hope he gets another shot to manage sometime soon.

As for Torre, I think he should retire now rather than take over the Dodgers because he won't know what to do with a younger team without a dominant closer and a leader on the field like Jeter to protect him.

[chillzatl]

I think you're overstating the role of the manager, as we all often do. Torre deserves very little of the blame for the Yankees lack of post season success of late. Look at that team. It's nothing but a paper champion full of check collectors. That wasn't torre's fault. If you're going to blame someone, blame the GM and owner, the guys who call the shots on personel.

[Johann]

Quote:

---

It's nothing but a paper champion full of check collectors. That wasn't torre's fault. If you're going to blame someone, blame the GM and owner, the guys who call the shots on personel.

---

I blame the Commissioner and the owners for being pansies. The league is so boring now. All you need is the cash, and you can purchase an All-Star team.

Sure podunk market teams can luck up and get hot at the right time, and fluke their way deep into the playoffs. But the high-dollar teams will win it 80 percent of the time.

The game is going downhill fast. It needs a commish with backbone, and a cap/free agency policy similar to the NBA. It may take a lockout to get that, but the commish/owners don't have the stiffness to stand up to the players, and the big market teams have no incentive to change the system. But as it stands, the game is getting more and more irrelevant every year.

[Admin]

You may be correct, but I firmly believe that Torre has been holding the Yankees back now for a few years. He refuses to change the way that he manages when the situation dictates it, like playing small ball when the team can't score runs. He tells the players to try and place the ball into a hole instead of going for a home run, or to sacrifice a runner over, etc. If they don't do that then he pinch hits for them. I don't see many players on the team that wouldn't do what Torre told them to do. He simply got out managed the past 5 years in the playoffs. Not only that but he wore down the Yankees bullpen by overusing his favorite relief pitchers and when it came post season time they had little left in the tank. Granted part of that has to fall on the starting pitchers shoulders as well as the GM for giving him older pitchers (until this year at least) but Torre still over worked the pen and I remember on multiple occasions other managers talking about how he was shortening their seasons/careers with the way he was using them, always having his main relievers in the top of the innings pitched list.

We'll see this year though since the majority of the team will be the same what Girardi can do with them. I think he will light a fire under their butts and if anyone knows how to make a pitcher perform it's a former catcher.

[Johann]

Catchers can make fine managers. Note: Torre is one himself.

[Admin]

I am fully aware of that. I wouldn't pick any former position player or pitcher above a catcher if I were choosing a manager since the catcher is so much like a manager on the field. Torre was a much better manager years ago when he had the team aggressive on the bases, playing hit and run, bunting guys over, etc. There is plenty of speed on the Yankees team to still do that with Cano, Cabrera, Jeter, Damon, and formerly A-Rod and yet it wasn't a part of what we did as a team. Back in the day when the Yankees were their best Knoblauch and Jeter were always setting up big innings by making a difference on the bases and I sincerely hope that Girardi makes the Yankees play that way again this year. I would be thrilled if the Yankees never brought in another big name position player and had speed and defense in the field and played small ball at the plate. Spend whatever money on quality power pitchers and try to develop those from within as well.

[Johann]

You have gotten over my head as far as Torre's strategy with the Yanks. To me, the Yankees represent the symbol of what is wrong with baseball, hence I don't watch them much, and when I do it is only to wish disaster on them. I haven't stepped back and even looked at their tactics.

But it seems that what you mention is an indictment of the American League in general. You are hoping for National League style baseball. I agree with you - far more interesting. My absolute favorite play is the suicide squeeze. How many times do you see that in the AL?

As I ranted before, baseball is in trouble. I will add now that the AL doesn't even play baseball.

[Admin]

I would absolutely like to see whoever is managing the Yankees playing more of a National League style. I want them to play the game like the Angels or the Indians because that is the style of play that will win more consistently than the bashing style. The Yankees were number 3 (or close to it) in the American League in hit & run and sacrifice baseball this past year, but we abandoned it in the post season and it killed us. I don't even think I can remember a single bunt attempt during the series with the Indians.

This is all a big part of why I wanted Girardi to replace Torre. I believe that Girardi will force a more well rounded closer to National League style on the team.

I understand where you are coming from concerning the Yankees being all that is wrong with baseball (along with the Red Sox who seem to get a free pass even though they have a massive payroll as well). However, if you look at the system as it is set up now teams that lose big name FA's are the ones that end up winning in the long run because a Type A free agent signing costs two 1st round draft choices and a big part of why the smaller market teams have been doing so much better this decade is because of that and it's a huge reason why you don't see nearly as many big name FA's changing teams these days as compared to 5 or more years ago. It's simply too costly to do so for more than a player every now and then.

While I am not at fan of the salary cap approach to the game I have to say that I am very happy with the direction baseball is going with teams relying on younger players and overblown salaries declining. I would be thrilled if the Yankees dropped most of their big money players and played kids or scrappy vets playing for a job.