My Thoughts 2 games in.....

[jerrywest]

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"way biased" towards melodramatic gloom and doom.

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I have a negative outlook on the team because they continue to stink it up. Had I got excited about the 4-1 start last year the season would have been an even bigger letdown than it already was.

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What do you know about "up"? You have never been "up" in you whole life.

Why are you scared of "letdown"? You should be used to it by now.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hotlanta, please. You're talking to the wrong person about not watching games.

I travel almost 300 miles 5 - 10 times a year, just to see the Hawks . . LIVE, no matter how good or bad they are.

This year, I'm making it a point to RECORD every single SportSouth game that comes on. I can't get the FSN South Hawk games here in Tennessee.

I definitely watch this team. And I'll re-watch games and certain segments, to see what exactly is going on.

Stats should be used to only back up what you already know in the first place.

JJ is equal, or close to what Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were in thier primes, than 2nd tier guys like Michael Redd or a Rip Hamilton. But JJ may even be a little more versatile of a player, than Allen.

You try to reduce JJ to some "one-trick" pony, which is absolutely ridiculous, if you've seen this guy play live.

And Hot, you know good and well it takes more than one player to win in this league. Even Kobe has Lamar Odom, a guy that would be a godsend on this team.

Give JJ Antoine Jamison and Caron Butler, and he'd be in the playoffs

Give JJ Yao Ming, and he'd be in the playoffs.

LOL . . the best player JJ has played with in his 3 years in ATL, has been Al Harrington.

[Plainview1981]

JJ is equal, or close to what Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were in thier primes, than 2nd tier guys like Michael Redd or a Rip Hamilton. But JJ may even be a little more versatile of a player, than Allen."

Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were never as good as Kobe, Wade, Iverson, Tmac (before his Rocket days)

The top SG's right now are:

Wade

LeBron

Kobe

I know that is a very short list. But that's the way it is to me.

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Even Kobe has Lamar Odom, a guy that would be a godsend on this team.

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The west is way tougher than the east. The Lakers would win 50+ games in the east. So while Kobe has a better second guy than JJ, he makes the playoffs in a much tougher conference.

[exodus]

Neither Smitty or Kobe has made the playoffs with 2 and 3 year players being his main supporting players.

[Vol4ever]

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....First, I think 2 games into the seasons is entirely too early to be making concrete observations. A lot of things can happen over the next 80 games.

With that said, based on what I've seen from this team in the preseason as well as in the first two games, not making the playoffs this season is not acceptable. This team has developed to the point where I believe the playoffs should be the expectation of this team this year.

The Hawks just took on two of the best teams in the NBA and stood toe to toe with them. They beat the Mavericks by 7 points, and they had the game in control against the Pistons but squandered a 9 point lead in the 4th quarter.

Joe Johnson is still Joe Johnson. He's a star player that contributes in a variety of ways. He is a terrific shooter, and he's a terrific scorer when the situation calls for it. Joe is also a very good passer with great court vision, and his defense is very underrated.

This is the year most pointed to as Marvin's breakout year when he was drafted. Based on the results from the preseason and the first two games, Marvin is breaking out. He's averaging 19 PPG on 59% shooting so far after averaging 18 PPG during the preseason and around 16 PPG over the last month of last season. Marvin is playing aggressively, attacking the basket, drawing fouls, and finishing plays. The big thing is that Marvin is playing great defense right now as well. I'd like to see him hit the boards with the aggression he is attacking the basket with right now, and I believe that will come. Marvin is looking like a player that Mike Woodson should trust to be the second scoring option on the team.

Al Horford and Acie Law are not playing like rookies. They are playing like veterans. Mike already seems to have confidence in Al Horford, so it will be interesting to see if that confidence is maintained when Zaza Pachulia is healthy. Mike needs to gain the confidence in Acie Law, because Law is clearly a better option than Ty Lue at this point.

Josh Smith is up and down, but he typically starts the year out slow anyway. Josh needs to learn to play within himself and within the system, but he is attacking the boards and playing good defense.

Shelden Williams is becoming quite a nice role player off the bench. He's getting in on the boards in limited minutes off the bench right now.

Josh Childress right now needs to find his confidence. Much like Josh Smith though, Josh Childress is prone to starting slow.

Overall, everything should come together for this team this season. The pieces are in place to make a run to the playoffs, and that should be the expectations for this team.

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I agree with you KB. I got to watch the game on the intenet lst night. Marvin, Horford, and Smoove are turning out to be good players. I was for drafting Marvin and now he is showing why we draft him, he was all over the place last night. Smoove hopefully will get under control and I believe he will, he is a great talent. Al Horford is going to be a very good low post power player.

We need to go with what we have right now. We could use a scorer off the bench, but that is Woody's job so I will defer to him. I personally would like to see another shooter 6-5 to 6-8 that can stroke it with having to give the bank to get them, then again there are minutes issues now.

I've been a fan since 1977 through good and bad times. I think the team could have been built another way but heh let's all get behind this team because I believe they can be special.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were never as good as Kobe, Wade, Iverson, Tmac (before his Rocket days)

The top SG's right now are:

Wade

LeBron

Kobe

I know that is a very short list. But that's the way it is to me.

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Don't change up your argument now Hot. You're calling JJ a "2nd tier SG" on the level of Redd and Rip. So I guess JJ would be somewhere over Redd, but not as good as Wade or Kobe?

But Hot, here's when I knew that JJ was the ish. And here's another "stat" for you.

In the 2005 - 06 season, there were only 4 players to have 1600 points, 500 assists, and 100 steals.

- Iverson

- Wade

- Lebron

- and Joe "friggin" Johnson

Kobe would've been in this group, had he not gotten hurt that year. T-Mac, maybe. Arenas got close that year.

But that's a damn impressive list of players to be under, for a "2nd tier SG".

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The west is way tougher than the east. The Lakers would win 50+ games in the east. So while Kobe has a better second guy than JJ, he makes the playoffs in a much tougher conference.

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Really? One more "stat".

Last year, the Lakers went 42 - 40 overall, and 28 - 24 in the West. That would make them 14 - 16 vs the East.

But what about the 05 - 06 season? Lakers go 47 - 35 overall, and 27 - 25 vs the West. That would make them 20 - 10 vs the East that year.

So they actually digressed as a team last year vs the East. And the East is DEFINITELY better this year. Not buying your argument for one minute.

[prolific25]

I agree with you somewhat. There is a difference between star and super-star. I think Joe falls in like with 2nd tier stars such as Vince Carter, Pierce, Allen, Gasol, Redd, Jermaine, Brand,etc. Super-star players are players like Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Wade,KG, Dirk,and Nash to a certain extent. Then you have players like Kidd,Iverson,Tmac,and Melo some where in between depending on how you value them. Joe is good but it's almost impossible to build a championship team around him...he is better suited as a 2nd option to play along some one like Duncan or Dirk.

[DJlaysitup]

Probably messed up the spelling.

JJ is exactly where you put him....

[Plainview1981]

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Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were never as good as Kobe, Wade, Iverson, Tmac (before his Rocket days)

The top SG's right now are:

Wade

LeBron

Kobe

I know that is a very short list. But that's the way it is to me.

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Don't change up your argument now Hot. You're calling JJ a "2nd tier SG" on the level of Redd and Rip. So I guess JJ would be somewhere over Redd, but not as good as Wade or Kobe?

But Hot, here's when I knew that JJ was the ish. And here's another "stat" for you.

In the 2005 - 06 season, there were only 4 players to have 1600 points, 500 assists, and 100 steals.

- Iverson

- Wade

- Lebron

- and Joe "friggin" Johnson

Kobe would've been in this group, had he not gotten hurt that year. T-Mac, maybe. Arenas got close that year.

But that's a damn impressive list of players to be under, for a "2nd tier SG".

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The west is way tougher than the east. The Lakers would win 50+ games in the east. So while Kobe has a better second guy than JJ, he makes the playoffs in a much tougher conference.

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Really? One more "stat".

Last year, the Lakers went 42 - 40 overall, and 28 - 24 in the West. That would make them 14 - 16 vs the East.

But what about the 05 - 06 season? Lakers go 47 - 35 overall, and 27 - 25 vs the West. That would make them 20 - 10 vs the East that year.

So they actually digressed as a team last year vs the East. And the East is DEFINITELY better this year. Not buying your argument for one minute.

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I don't need you to tell me that JJ has nice stats. So do alot of other players. Unless you can tell me the east has been as good as the west your argument doesn't hold water.

You can always find some stats to support just about any argument. The Hawks were something like 13 wins and 16 losses against the west.

Damn, if the Hawks had only played in a stronger conference where pretty much every team is more talented than them, they sure would have been in the playoff race.

Doesn't make alot of sense, does it?

The Hawks were 1-1 against the Suns... That means the Hawks are just as good as the Suns.

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Don't change up your argument now Hot. You're calling JJ a "2nd tier SG" on the level of Redd and Rip. So I guess JJ would be somewhere over Redd, but not as good as Wade or Kobe?

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Correct.

Tmac was on the list with Kobe at one time, but by watching him now I see that he has simply lost something. You could almost put Vince up there aswell until he became nothing but a jumpshooter. It's not just something you can see on those stat sheet's you love. But when you watch the players you see it if you don't have blinders on.

[TexasPete]

I'm totally dumbfounded on why Hotlanta follows a team he clearly has no love for. They suck, they stink, they will always let you down. And yet, he can't pull himself away?

Hot, go and find another squad that will make you happy. Life is too short to follow a franchise that pisses you off so bad. There's room on the Spurs wagon, the Suns, or the Mavs. Go post there and see if they grow on you. The way the Spurs win you would be less aggravated and you would have almost all wins to celebrate.

These Hawks look like about a 41-41 squad. They have better talent but they are just a little too green to win more. Next year they will make a big move, going deep in the playoffs.

But, your such a negative dude that no matter what they do you won't enjoy it. FYI, going through life as a drama queen ain't much fun.

[Plainview1981]

These Hawks look like about a 41-41 squad. They have better talent but they are just a little too green to win more. Next year they will make a big move, going deep in the playoffs."

Whatever. I'm tired of arguing about it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Well if he's over Redd, but below Kobe, that makes JJ a top 10 - 15 player in this league . . that sometimes plays like a top 10 player.

So he was a superstar in the Dallas game because:

- he guarded Dirk on his last 2 shot attempts, in which JJ played great defense on him to force 2 misses

- he made the great pass to Marvin for the lay-up, when he could've taken a much tougher shot over the double team, to put us up 5.

- then he ices the game with the 20 foot jumper.

Those are superstar like plays in every facet of the game. No one-trick pony there.

[Plainview1981]

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Well if he's over Redd, but below Kobe, that makes JJ a top 10 - 15 player in this league . . that sometimes plays like a top 10 player.

So he was a superstar in the Dallas game because:

- he guarded Dirk on his last 2 shot attempts, in which JJ played great defense on him to force 2 misses

- he made the great pass to Marvin for the lay-up, when he could've taken a much tougher shot over the double team, to put us up 5.

- then he ices the game with the 20 foot jumper.

Those are superstar like plays in every facet of the game. No one-trick pony there.

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The league doesn't have many superstars.

Whatever Nick Naylor. I'm tired of arguing about it.

[AtLaS]

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JJ hasn't played in the type of offense Smitty played in as a Hawk either. One of the most dreadful offenses I've ever seen as a fan. If I had not been a fan, I would have fallen asleep when the Hawks were on offense back in those days.

Look at say Rip Hamilton. Notice that Rip's shooting numbers have went up since Flip Saunders has been the coach and the team has lost it's more grit style of offense.

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It's funny your arguing about how terrible the Hawks offense was when Smitty was on the team, yet JJ was on the worst offense in the entire league last year. Our offensive scheme last year was WORSE, JJ received MORE double teams than Smitty has ever seen in his life, and JJ still scored more on better percentages. What a dumb post.

[Plainview1981]

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JJ hasn't played in the type of offense Smitty played in as a Hawk either. One of the most dreadful offenses I've ever seen as a fan. If I had not been a fan, I would have fallen asleep when the Hawks were on offense back in those days.

Look at say Rip Hamilton. Notice that Rip's shooting numbers have went up since Flip Saunders has been the coach and the team has lost it's more grit style of offense.

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It's funny your arguing about how terrible the Hawks offense was when Smitty was on the team, yet JJ was on the worst offense in the entire league last year. Our offensive scheme last year was WORSE, JJ received MORE double teams than Smitty has ever seen in his life, and JJ still scored more on better percentages. What a dumb post.

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1.You guys keep ignoring my point. I never questioned his jumpshot. Never have. I never said Smitty was a better jump shooter. I never said Smitty was as good of jumpshooter. I said Smitty had more tools as an offensive player and he is a better leader.

My point is that JJ scores most of his points on long jumpshots and doesn't have many other tools as a scorer. Which is fine, but he's not a top tier SG. That doesn't mean he sucks either. He is just as good as the likes of Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. The list of superstars is very very short IMO. JJ isn't one of them, Paul Pierce isn't one of them, Ray Allen is close, but he isn't one of them.

Why people continue to take me saying that JJ is not in Kobe, Wade, or Lebron's class as an insult is mystery. He is not as good as those guys. PERIOD. They're far more skilled than JJ, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

Btw, the Hawks offense in 1998 only averaged 86PPG. No matter what you think of the Hawks offense last year, it wasn't as bad as those late 90's teams.

We should also note that JJ last year was the only year he's averaged more than 20PPG. You guys act like JJ has been putting up 23-25PPG for years.

[Plainview1981]

Like I said last night, I'm not going to sit here and argue anymore and keep repeating myself. Most NBA fans can see why JJ isn't as good as Kobe, Wade, and Lebron.

I stick by my post that JJ is a one trick pony scorer. He doesn't have the ability to break down defenders and get to the hole on a consistent basis and he doesn't get to the fouline.

I'm not repeating it anymore.

[AtLaS]

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Like I said last night, I'm not going to sit here and argue anymore and keep repeating myself. Most NBA fans can see why JJ isn't as good as Kobe, Wade, and Lebron.

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I agree with that 100%. The thing that I don't agree with is Steve Smith being better than Joe Johnson.

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I stick by my post that JJ is a one trick pony scorer.

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No he's not. He's also one of the best passing/playmaking/dribbling SG's in the entire NBA, and certainly much better at these aspects than Smith was. JJ is also not a slouch as a defender like most of these guys. I'm not saying JJ is a great defender by any means, but he's not a bad one.

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He doesn't have the ability to break down defenders and get to the hole on a consistent basis and he doesn't get to the fouline.

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He got to the line 5.5 times last year, Smith's best season was 6.0. Not a big enough difference that it makes Smith a better player.

[Plainview1981]

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He got to the line 5.5 times last year, Smith's best season was 6.0. Not a big enough difference that it makes Smith a better player.

[exodus]

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Despite Smith's so called defense the Hawks were one of the best defensive teams at the time.

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That is because they had a multiple DPOY winner at center and one of the top defenders in the league at the point. Grant Long was a good defender as well.

[Plainview1981]

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Despite Smith's so called defense the Hawks were one of the best defensive teams at the time.

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That is because they had a multiple DPOY winner at center and one of the top defenders in the league at the point. Grant Long was a good defender as well.

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Defense is more a team thing. That's the only point I was trying to make here.