Woody's done by Thanksgiving

[AtLaS]

One thing that REALLY worries me about this season is at the end of games. We have NO OFFENSE at all, so we have to rely on JJ completely again this year. I hate having to completely rely on JJ, but we have too. Do you cringe when anyone other than JJ has the ball under 4:00 in close games? I do, and it's obvious we don't have anyone else that can effectively create their shot.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Marvin should never have come out early, no coach removes his hot hand Northcyde. That issue isnt debatable.

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Pete, I'm telling you man . . that just isn't true. In the 1st quarter, almost every coach has some sort of timed rotation in which they get players in and out of the games in the beginning.

If anything, take issue with why individual plays aren't being ran for Marvin, when he's in the game with part of the 2nd unit. That's a bigger issue, than Marvin coming out at the 6 minute mark in every game in the 1st quarter.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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One thing that REALLY worries me about this season is at the end of games. We have NO OFFENSE at all, so we have to rely on JJ completely again this year. I hate having to completely rely on JJ, but we have too. Do you cringe when anyone other than JJ has the ball under 4:00 in close games? I do, and it's obvious we don't have anyone else that can effectively create their shot.

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. . other than Salim Stoudamire.

LOL . . I know people don't like the kid, but he's the only guy outside of JJ, that can get a decent shot off, no matter who is guarding him.

I know one thing, he wouldn't have had Jason Kidd block his shot at the end of the game, like Lue did. ( at least that's what Gamecast said happened ).

[Murat]

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Lol so basically Woody is a robot.

Timed substitutions?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

No wonder we can never keep any momentum!

No wonder the Nets go on 3-4 10 point runs.

Freaking dumb a-- has timed substitutions

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Bus . . I'll make a bet with you.

I'll bet you that tomorrow night, Barbosa will enter the game between the 5 - 7 minute mark in the 1st quarter . . probably for Grant Hill . . no matter how well or how bad Hill is playing. If Hill is playing bad, he won't come out until that 5 - 7 minute mark.

( NOTE: The bet is off, if either Nash, Bell, or Hill picks up 2 quick fouls, and is subbed out for Barobosa, before the mandatory timeout in the 1st quarter . . which happens after the 1st dead ball after the 7 minute mark. )

If Barbosa comes in during that time . . you don't post on Hawksquawk AT ALL on Thursday and Friday. If he comes in later, or much earlier, I'll do the same.

Bet?

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HAHA, stop defending Woody dude. You can't apply the same logic to the Phoenix. Barbosa is a better scorer than Hill right now, he will not kill their offensive momentum when he comes in. We are a bad offensive team without a system and can not afford to take someone who is making everything out in favor of a player that can not create his own shot. Dude i like your posts, you are smart but STOP DEFENDING WOODY it makes you dumber than he is.

[Murat]

Ok let me ask you this Northcyde.

If you had a team that is strugling to score points, but there is one player on your team that has a hot hand that night, DO YOU TAKE HIM OUT AFTER 5-6 minutes just into the game?

And you take him out for a player that is a worse offensive player than the guy you are taking out.

[Sasquatch]

You know what? The more I think about it the more it ticks me off. Let me ask you something. If ANYBODY is coaching this team with their job on the line... You, me, Joe, Blow, Schmoe, whoever... If your job is on the line and you are on the road against a veteran playoff team and you have only one player producing 6-7 min into the game, is there a chance in hell you yank him? NO!!!!!!

Hell NO!!!! That M¤ F¤ would have a seizure on the floor before I take him out. Afterall, if nothingelse, this is my job, right? So basically, this is my personal cry for help. Help me to understand. 'Cause right about now I'm ready to ride in his a**

"I believe in doing onto thy neighbor as you would have him do unto you. But sometimes yo' neighbor get's what he F*n' deserves"... Sasquatch

[AtLaS]

lol calm down, we all know how much Woody sucks. He's been doing this for 4 years. He's an idiot, as sad as it is he should probably read a Hawks message board for coaching advice.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Ok let me ask you this Northcyde.

If you had a team that is strugling to score points, but there is one player on your team that has a hot hand that night, DO YOU TAKE HIM OUT AFTER 5-6 minutes just into the game?

And you take him out for a player that is a worse offensive player than the guy you are taking out.

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Childress is our 6th man. And he usually comes in for Marvin, without much of a dropoff. ( can't say that in the past 2 games though ). And becuase it's ONLY the 1st quarter, I'd still take Marvin out, if he were 3 - 3 FG with 7 points.

Like Woody, I'd insert him back into the game about 4 minutes later, to give JJ a breather at the end of the quarter.

Most NBA coaches do that with their 6th men.

It's funny. A lot of people before the season started, would've rather seen Chill start over Marvin, because Chill has traditionally been a very efficient scorer. The dropoff between Chill and Marvin is miniscule.

I'm glad everybody is now on the Marvin bandwagon now. It's nice to see that.

[Buzzard]

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It looks like his subs pattern are for Lue to play most of the 4th and then at the last 1 min mark, sub in Law. This has happened the last two games and I wouldn't be surprise if he did this again tomorrow. Watch for it.

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I did not get to watch the game tonight; but I sure as hell noticed this 4th quarter substitution pattern against Detroit. I think he put in Law against Billups for D in the last minute...

Woody does not have enough confidence in Law; and way to much in Lue, who has sucked the last two games in the 4th quarter. As far as Marvin goes, we played solid D tonight as a team and Woody cannot justify Marvin only getting 24 minutes.

Woody appears to be totally lost; he cannot remember who his leading scorer (at the time) in the game is...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You know what? The more I think about it the more it ticks me off. Let me ask you something. If ANYBODY is coaching this team with their job on the line... You, me, Joe, Blow, Schmoe, whoever... If your job is on the line and you are on the road against a veteran playoff team and you have only one player producing 6-7 min into the game, is there a chance in hell you yank him? NO!!!!!!

Hell NO!!!! That M¤ F¤ would have a seizure on the floor before I take him out. Afterall, if nothingelse, this is my job, right? So basically, this is my personal cry for help. Help me to understand. 'Cause right about now I'm ready to ride in his a**

"I believe in doing onto thy neighbor as you would have him do unto you. But sometimes yo' neighbor get's what he F*n' deserves"... Sasquatch

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LMAO !!

You guys are making way more out of this, than it should be. We're not talking about the 4th quarter here. We're talking about the 1st quarter. In the 4th quarter, a hot hand will get the benefit of the doubt.

Even high school coaches do that at the beginning of games. I knew that I was always coming out of the game with about 2 minutes left in the 1st period. Coach always wanted to play the up and coming superstar freshman PG with some of the upperclassmen, so I always knew that I was coming out toward the end of the quater. And I would always wipe my shoes off near the 4 minute mark of the 2nd quarter, because I was about to come back in the game.

You guys act like this is NBA Live or something, with the fatigue level turned off or something.

[TexasPete]

Sorry, Northcyde, I've spent a lot of years sitting in that arena watching more than just the Hawks. Almost all coaches have an idea of their sub patterns, that is true. But it isn't rigid. It isn't taking your hot hand out at the exact moment your card says.

I will even tell you that there are times with JJ that Woody lets him stay when he is on. It is all in who you are with Woody and what arbitrary thing he can think of next.

He's a terrible head coach. There are far too many chinks in his armor.

[Buzzard]

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You guys act like this is NBA Live or something, with the fatigue level turned off or something.

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Marvin played 26 minutes and he was fatigued? This is not about the 1st quarter. This is about Lue playing like crap and getting too many minutes; and Marvin being our leading scorer in the 1st half and only playing 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You guys act like this is NBA Live or something, with the fatigue level turned off or something.

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Marvin played 26 minutes and he was fatigued? This is not about the 1st quarter. This is about Lue playing like crap and getting too many minutes; and Marvin being our leading scorer in the 1st half and only playing 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

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Buzz . . the people on this thread were complaining first about Marvin being taken out of the game in the 1st quarter, when he had the hot hand.

Now if you want to switch this to Lue getting 25 minutes tonight, that's a different story. No way he should've gotten that many minutes, shooting like that. If his offensive game isn't on, he doesn't need to be out on the floor.

And I'll also agree that Marvin should've been put in that game way earlier in the 4th quarter, even with 5 fouls.

But when it comes to Marvin being subbed out of a game in the 1st quarter, it's an issue not really getting all up in arms about. The bigger issue is why Marvin's teammates seem to be almost freezing him out in the 2nd half of these games? Or why Woody isn't calling individual plays for Marvin in the 2nd half?

[Sasquatch]

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You know what? The more I think about it the more it ticks me off. Let me ask you something. If ANYBODY is coaching this team with their job on the line... You, me, Joe, Blow, Schmoe, whoever... If your job is on the line and you are on the road against a veteran playoff team and you have only one player producing 6-7 min into the game, is there a chance in hell you yank him? NO!!!!!!

Hell NO!!!! That M¤ F¤ would have a seizure on the floor before I take him out. Afterall, if nothingelse, this is my job, right? So basically, this is my personal cry for help. Help me to understand. 'Cause right about now I'm ready to ride in his a**

"I believe in doing onto thy neighbor as you would have him do unto you. But sometimes yo' neighbor get's what he F*n' deserves"... Sasquatch

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LMAO !!

You guys are making way more out of this, than it should be. We're not talking about the 4th quarter here. We're talking about the 1st quarter. In the 4th quarter, a hot hand will get the benefit of the doubt.

Even high school coaches do that at the beginning of games. I knew that I was always coming out of the game with about 2 minutes left in the 1st period. Coach always wanted to play the up and coming superstar freshman PG with some of the upperclassmen, so I always knew that I was coming out toward the end of the quater. And I would always wipe my shoes off near the 4 minute mark of the 2nd quarter, because I was about to come back in the game.

You guys act like this is NBA Live or something, with the fatigue level turned off or something.

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Point well taken. However, there is no tomorrow. This guy is literally coaching from the Guillatine. He is literally not guaranteed to be coaching next week. Given those circumstances I find it hard to rationalize his decisions based on what a coach with more leeway "MIGHT" do. Secondly, I think a lot of people are assuming you guys are right in your assertions. I honestly do not recall good coaches taking their only hot hand out 5-6 min into the game, on the road, and at the time no foul trouble. I just do not recall seeing good coaches do that.

Nevertheless. Let's look at it this way...

If they give Clueless his pink slip tomorrow morning and give him a chance to go back in time, I guarantee u Marvin stays on the floor.

[Murat]

Well it's hard to say this, but i wish Phoenix destroys us tomorrow night i mean kills us. Something like 120-75 and we lose another game or two in that strech before we fire Woody just like what Thrashers did to Hartley. It's early in the season anyways, we can easily rebound without Woody. If we can't find a new coach than have Smitty, Nique or perhaps give Hubie a call.

[Buzzard]

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Now if you want to switch this to Lue getting 25 minutes tonight, that's a different story. No way he should've gotten that many minutes, shooting like that. If his offensive game isn't on, he doesn't need to be out on the floor.

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I am just complaining about his substitution patterns and play calling in general. He seems to forget who is playing well and who his best players are.

Also, this has already been said but if Lue's shot is not dropping, he does not bring anything else to the party (defense, penatration, or passing skills). When I watch teams like Detroit, Miami, NJ, etc run their half court sets it is obvious that Woody needs to let one his assistants come up with some plays because he does not have any.

I have always thought we have played good D when you consider the player base he has to work with; but Woody needs to improve on his substitution patterns and his play calling. He is horrible on those two points.

Other teams look so much smoother than us; its like we are a pickup team on offense playing against an NBA team. We were last in PPG last year; its time he improved just as much as are young players are improving....

[DrReality]

I would be stunned if he was fired becasue the team is playing well. Losing to two playoff teams on the road is nothing to be ahamed of. That's not to say there are clear issues to be dealt with and I agree that he is not a good coach. I just don't see the circumstances warranting it this early.

As Sekou said in his article it is a team looking for an identity and I agree. An ID given that they have two rookies playing important roles and they are changing their style of play. I think the difficulties are to be expected. If this is still going on by Jan 1 that will be a different matter.

[Packfill]

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You guys act like this is NBA Live or something, with the fatigue level turned off or something.

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Marvin played 26 minutes and he was fatigued? This is not about the 1st quarter. This is about Lue playing like crap and getting too many minutes; and Marvin being our leading scorer in the 1st half and only playing 10 minutes in the 2nd half.

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Buzz . . the people on this thread were complaining first about Marvin being taken out of the game in the 1st quarter, when he had the hot hand.

Now if you want to switch this to Lue getting 25 minutes tonight, that's a different story. No way he should've gotten that many minutes, shooting like that. If his offensive game isn't on, he doesn't need to be out on the floor.

And I'll also agree that Marvin should've been put in that game way earlier in the 4th quarter, even with 5 fouls.

But when it comes to Marvin being subbed out of a game in the 1st quarter, it's an issue not really getting all up in arms about. The bigger issue is why Marvin's teammates seem to be almost freezing him out in the 2nd half of these games? Or why Woody isn't calling individual plays for Marvin in the 2nd half?

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News flash: Woody's only offensive scheme is give the ball to JJ or, failing that, whomever happens to be standing at the top of the key and hope for the best.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Most coaches sub in their bench when it's 1 or 2 mins left in the first quarter. Woody sub out Marvin with 6 mins in when he's been our 2nd best scorer. He didn't know what he's doing out there. No coach will yank their 2nd leading scorer who has a hot hand 6 mins in the first.

[TroyMcClure]

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lol calm down, we all know how much Woody sucks. He's been doing this for 4 years. He's an idiot, as sad as it is he should probably read a Hawks message board for coaching advice.

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That's loser talk, atlas. People have a right to be mad. Not everyone is as jaded as some.