Somethings we have to be honest about!

[Diesel]

1. Our PGs don't produce assists

That's an indication of flaw in the offensive system AND too many players trying to be chief.

2. Horford is a PF

I hear people rant about how well he's rebounding. That's good.. however, when you watch him, Centers give him problems. Us continuing the experiment is worthless.

3. Smoove is a Sf at heart

I'm still trying to find the PF that the summer talkers talked about. Seems like Hakeem worked with him on his media presence and not on his low post skills. I've been in the low post as much as Smoove this season.

4. Lue is killing us

Somebody once said addition by subtraction. Sure Lue hits a big shot every now and then.. however, the damage that he does in the mean time is far too much to keep him out there. There's no excuse. He doesn't play defense and he slows the flow of the offense. Nobody works or moves when Lue is in the game because mentally, it's a foregone conclusion of what will happen.

5. We need to get easy scores

Nothing is worst than seeing all of our talent reduce themselves to shooting from outside. We do it alot. We should have some surefire plays to get us some points or trips to the line.

6. Hit the free throws

We miss free throws which lead to runs.

[oken]

Who would you consider a center?

Someone like KG? Rasheed? Jaron Collins? Boris Diaw?

Diop?

I think KG isn't really a center, and Rasheed is a PF, C type...

Horford is the least of our worries...

I'm more concerned with the lack of continuity and flow in the offense when Lue is in the game...

or even in general when Smith thinks he is KG or Toni Kukoc...

I think Smith is angry that there is no system and he wants to do something to help...but I think he needs to just go down low and help out there and he'll be rewarded on passes from Law and JJ and whoever...

He doesn't need to play point forward.

[AnnArborHawk]

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3. Smoove is a Sf at heart

I'm still trying to find the PF that the summer talkers talked about. Seems like Hakeem worked with him on his media presence and not on his low post skills. I've been in the low post as much as Smoove this season.

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On defense, absolutely. On offense, he doesn't have the shooting ability to be a starting SF.

[exodus]

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1. Our PGs don't produce assists

That's an indication of flaw in the offensive system AND too many players trying to be chief.

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I think Acie can do a good job but Woody need to cut him loose. Right now he looks like he is just trying not to shoot too much and piss off the other players.

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3. Smoove is a Sf at heart

I'm still trying to find the PF that the summer talkers talked about.

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I am still waiting for him to show a consistent jumper or just decent handles for a SF. The only scoring success he has had has been inside.

He may just have to accept that he really just isn't that good of a scorer anywhere.

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4. Lue is killing us

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I have had enough of him.

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5. We need to get easy scores

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That won't happen until we show we are a threat from the perimeter. Marvin and Law need to get a lot more shots and Smith a lot less.

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6. Hit the free throws

We miss free throws which lead to runs.

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JJ and Smith are shooting much better from the line. Marvin is shooting 80% as well. Childress hasn't missed. We are shooting 77% as a team.

[Murat]

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3. Smoove is a Sf at heart

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If he is a SF than he needs to go to the bench.

If you think Smoove is a Sf than we play like this:

Law

Joe

Marv

Horf

Zaza

Bring him of the bench, he will provide more energy anyways.

[AtLaS]

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2. Horford is a PF

I hear people rant about how well he's rebounding. That's good.. however, when you watch him, Centers give him problems. Us continuing the experiment is worthless.

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So exactly which centers have given him problems? We haven't had one center this year go off on us. Woodson stupidly put Horford on Garnett (a top 5 player), and as a rookie, it was too much for him. And oh yeah, Garnett was the PF. Horford was abused by a great PF, not center.

[DJlaysitup]

I really think we need to get Zaza back (as insane as that sounds ex). I think he will help and will take some pressure off of Horford (even though Horford has been doing pretty well so far).

As far as our offense (?)...I would rather see us run (or at least push the pace after made baskets) even if we do turn the ball over. We were getting turnovers from Boston early too.

Truth is, if we hit our FTs early we would have gottenn within 3 or 4 in the third quarter instead of just 8. The real killer in this game (besides KG) was House. He destroyed us with the 3's. He is a streak shooter and can't do that every night.

PS - didn't mean to Hijack the thread D - I agree with your original post.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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1. Our PGs don't produce assists

That's an indication of flaw in the offensive system AND too many players trying to be chief.

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I agree. So, as you call him, let "Big Pimpin" be the chief. Either he or Law need to be running this show. Not Lue, Smoove, AJ, or anybody else who THINKS they can do it.

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2. Horford is a PF

I hear people rant about how well he's rebounding. That's good.. however, when you watch him, Centers give him problems. Us continuing the experiment is worthless.

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I agree. But Horford hasn't been the major problem here. If anything, we may not win the either of those 2 games we won, without his big time work on the boards. Centers may give him a little problem, but it's not as much as you're trying to make it out to be. I think he won the battle vs Diop . . and McDyess/Wallace . . Mags banged him around a little . . definitely controlled Diaw's weak azz . . and scored easily on Perkins on the offensive end, while not being able to handle the league MVP in Garnett. LOL . . Horford has been just fine at center. But I agree that he is a PF.

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3. Smoove is a Sf at heart

I'm still trying to find the PF that the summer talkers talked about. Seems like Hakeem worked with him on his media presence and not on his low post skills. I've been in the low post as much as Smoove this season.

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True again. And this will cost this kid money, if he doesn't change his mindset. I thought he might could be our 2nd option, but it's looking more and more like he's not going to be able to do it. I wish he'd pattern his game after Shawn Marion's, from an offensive rebounding and running without the ball standpoint. Shawn puts himself in position to get easy baskets. Smoove doesn't. And Josh Smith fans . . that's the truth, so don't whine about that statement. He can't get the ball in the right spots, if he refuses to pass the ball to Law to start the fast break. Everything else about his game is fantastic, except his offense. And we can't have our worst offensive player taking the 2nd most shots on the team. That can't continue to happen.

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4. Lue is killing us

Somebody once said addition by subtraction. Sure Lue hits a big shot every now and then.. however, the damage that he does in the mean time is far too much to keep him out there. There's no excuse. He doesn't play defense and he slows the flow of the offense. Nobody works or moves when Lue is in the game because mentally, it's a foregone conclusion of what will happen.

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Definitely agree with this now. Here's something I just saw on 82games.com. I don't know if they included last night's game in this. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

But before the Boston game, our best 5-man lineup was +13 on the floor. That lineup, as many would guess, is Law - JJ - Marvin - Smoove - Horford.

Our worst 5-man lineup was -11 on the floor. That lineup is Lue - JJ - Marvin - Smoove - Horford

One more Lue nugget. His eFG is around 40% . . but he's allowing the man he's guarding to shoot an eFG of almost 49%. And if this stat doesn't include last night's game, that number is going to skyrocket above 50% . . maybe even close to 55%.

Outside of that great 4th quarter in the Dallas game, he's been a COMPLETE LIABILITY the entire season.

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5. We need to get easy scores

Nothing is worst than seeing all of our talent reduce themselves to shooting from outside. We do it alot. We should have some surefire plays to get us some points or trips to the line.

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I agree. But we need the right people to start giving up the ball in order for them to be in position to get easy scores. And Woody might need to give Law a little more freedom in the half-court offense. As others have said, Woody may need to tell Law to try to look for his shot a little more. LOL . . and we need to get Marvin more shots. If JJ isn't leading us in shot attempts, Marvin should be. Our best offensive players need to be shooting the ball.

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6. Hit the free throws

We miss free throws which lead to runs.

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Overall, we're shooting 77%, so I can't complain about that. But it does seem like when we miss FTs, it's at the worst possible time. Or we'll miss 2 consecutive FTs.

[Diesel]

Well, I think that once we establish Horford at PF... I think it will mean a world of difference for some of our continuity. Offensively, I can't wait to see him and Zaza in the frontcourt together.

About Lue... You're right. He does destroy the flow. I can't wait til we get AJ or Speedy back.

[Diesel]

On offense, he doesn't have the desire to play in the low post.

[Diesel]

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That won't happen until we show we are a threat from the perimeter. Marvin and Law need to get a lot more shots and Smith a lot less.

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The game works from Inside out, not outside in...

[Murat]

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On offense, he doesn't have the desire to play in the low post.

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Where the heck is he going to play than? He can't shoot and he can barely dribble .

So Diesel if you think he is a SF than would you bench Marvin so he can play the SF or would you let him come of the bench since he is a tweener and play him depending on matchups?

I know you want to bench Marvin, but think again.

[DJlaysitup]

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...The game works from Inside out, not outside in...

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It all depends on quality of personnel you have and where they happen to play...teams have won championships both ways. The Celtics didn't exactly inside-out us last night (see KG's stats). I realize that stats don't mean everything - but he wasn't feeding the exterior players that much - he was dominating our interior players. Not so much with pure power, but with interior skills. That's why I figure if KG stays healthy and at least one of the other two do too through the season - and they all meet up in the playoffs - it's Boston against the winner in the West - hands down.

[DJlaysitup]

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...So Diesel if you think he is a SF than would you bench Marvin so he can play the SF or would you let him come of the bench since he is a tweener and play him depending on matchups?...

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Actually neither of them are prototypical SFs in today's game. Marvin is closer to the "Silk Wilkes" SF who was basically an outside shooter and rebounder (when it came to him) who could drive when the lane was open.

JS is more of the modern SF - but he doesn't have the SF ball handling skills (or other offensive finishing skills unless itsa dunk). Could be that both of these guys would be 6th or 7th men on a quality team like the Pistons. They still need to develop. BK's "all-youth" movement is going to cause problems. There needs to be an established hierarchy in any wolf pack.

PS - JS isn't right in the PF position either. If he gets jostled going to the hoop he can't elevate enough even though he is a mega jumper.

[Diesel]

Regardless of what looks good on paper, you have to look at what's happening in reality.

In reality, he's not playing the PF spot.

He may not be playing the Sf spot either. I don't know what the hell he's playing.

However, this I know.

At some point we will have to choose between his defensive significance and his offensive incompetence.

I think defense will keep him out there for a while... However, were those career highs for KG last night?

[Murat]

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...So Diesel if you think he is a SF than would you bench Marvin so he can play the SF or would you let him come of the bench since he is a tweener and play him depending on matchups?...

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Actually neither of them are prototypical SFs in today's game. Marvin is closer to the "Silk Wilkes" SF who was basically an outside shooter and rebounder (when it came to him) who could drive when the lane was open.

JS is more of the modern SF - but he doesn't have the SF ball handling skills (or other offensive finishing skills unless itsa dunk). Could be that both of these guys would be 6th or 7th men on a quality team like the Pistons. They still need to develop. BK's "all-youth" movement is going to cause problems. There needs to be an established hierarchy in any wolf pack.

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Oh, come on man Marvin is by far more of a SF than Smoove is.

[gsuteke]

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4. Lue is killing us

Somebody once said addition by subtraction. Sure Lue hits a big shot every now and then.. however, the damage that he does in the mean time is far too much to keep him out there. There's no excuse. He doesn't play defense and he slows the flow of the offense. Nobody works or moves when Lue is in the game because mentally, it's a foregone conclusion of what will happen.

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Yep. About Al Harrington.

[TexasPete]

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3. Smoove is a Sf at heart

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Nobody knew you felt this way. Thanks for the update.

[Diesel]

You following me around like a little b---- and not contributing one Iota to the conversation is getting a little old Teabag. Could you go somewhere an either grow the ---- up or eat a ----.