What do we do about Joe Johnson???

BHayley · November 12, 2007

For all those people saying we need to quit overreacting over a few losses, you miss the whole point. The team went through this crap 3 years straight with the same coach, showed up early for training camp, and still loses some of these games like they have been doing. Joe Johnson almost looks uninterested out there, T.Lue is murdering us in every loss, and Josh Smith has his own agenda.

The fact that Josh Smith didn't get an extension somewhat hurts right now, because we can't really trade him right now in a package for a star since he makes so little and we wouldn't want to take on extra salaries I assume.

Let's hope Sothron or someone knows of what BK is doing right now, and hopefully we are pursuing some PG help as well as a trade to help clear the forwarad glut and get a legit star here to help out Joe and the surging and impressive Marvin Williams

exodus · November 12, 2007

When JJ looks at the roster and doesn't see one productive vet it has to be frustrating. We get frustrated watching the hawks so how do you think he feels?

Taking 24 shots and 11 threes when his shot is off is so out of character for him i have to think he is just pissed right now.

AnnArborHawk · November 12, 2007

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When JJ looks at the roster and doesn't see one productive vet it has to be frustrating. We get frustrated watching the hawks so how do you think he feels?

Yeah, and when JJ looks at the stat sheet and sees Marvin producing better than him, that also has to be frustrating.

AnnArborHawk · November 12, 2007

Let's stop making excuses for this guy. Either you're out there giving 100% to try to help this team win, or you're stealing a paycheck (a hefty one) and need to go.

DJ_Money · November 12, 2007

6 games in and Joe is already a lazy cancer with a cap-killing contract? Damn...

The 11 three-pointers yesterday were def. a deviation from the norm, but teams are clearly shifting the floor to JJ's side. When he catches the ball, there's generally 2, if not 3, defenders to that side of the floor. He's not getting into the lane nearly as easily as last year.

(Our offensive sets don't help either. Spacing is horrible. And I've lost count of how many times we've had two guys cut to the same spot, or a cutter move to the same spot as the ball...but that's another subject...)

Nicholasp27 · November 12, 2007

when jj looks and see he has the FIFTH highest roland rating on the team...that must be frustrating

and pers vs opponent per:

marvin per: 22.9/24.1 (+17.1/+15.9 against opponent)

chill per: 16.1/22.1 (+9.3/+6.6 against opponent)

horford per: 13.6 (+7.2 against opponent)

then jj/smoove:

jj per: 17.7 (+2.9 against opponent)

smoove per: 20.2 (-.7 against opponent)

exodus · November 12, 2007

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6 games in and Joe is already a lazy cancer with a cap-killing contract? Damn

Seriously it is like everyone forgot the last two seasons.

exodus · November 12, 2007

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when jj looks and see he has the FIFTH highest roland rating on the team...that must be frustrating

If i have told you this once i have said it a hundred times, Roland Ratings only have value with large sample sizes.

Last year at this time those same stats showed us giving up like 15 ppg more when Shelden was playing.

Right now they show us scoring 29 ppg fewer when Horford is playing.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL10D.HTM

Nicholasp27 · November 12, 2007

oh, i know jj is best player on this team

but he's not playing like it right now...marvin has outplayed him the first 6 games of the year

jj needs to play with more passion...his teammates ARE producing for the most part...if jj played his all-star role better these 6 games, then we'd be .500+

we don't need diff personnel...we need diff attitude and coaching

exodus · November 12, 2007

My guess is that JJ came into the season realizing that the Hawks didn't have the horses to win. All of their other key contributors are on their rookie contracts and that is not a recipe for success.

NJHAWK · November 12, 2007

I agree with alot of what you said except the part about not signing Smoove to a big deal. Even if we signed him to an extension it wouldnt have started to kick in till next season. Therefore if we traded him this season the salary we would have to take back would have to be pretty close to what he is making now. Of corse if somebody wanted him bad enough we could just throw in Speedys deal to make it all work, lol.

AnnArborHawk · November 12, 2007

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Seriously it is like everyone forgot the last two seasons.

Haven't forgotten anything. Sure he's playing poorly. Surely, given the law of averages, he'll bounce back to form.

That being said, JJ at his finest never had the ability to take over games the way a Kobe, LeBron, Arenas, Billups, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Wade, etc can.

For a team that, over the past few years, continually loses a lot of close games, there's a glaring need for that "killer instinct." Joe doesn't have it and never has. He's a great all-around player and I love having him on the team, but he's lacking on some of the intangibles to be that #1 guy.

exodus · November 12, 2007

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Seriously it is like everyone forgot the last two seasons.

Haven't forgotten anything. Sure he's playing poorly. Surely, given the law of averages, he'll bounce back to form.

That being said, JJ at his finest never had the ability to take over games the way a Kobe, LeBron, Arenas, Billups, Kidd, Nash, Parker, Wade, etc can.

For a team that, over the past few years, continually loses a lot of close games, there's a glaring need for that "killer instinct." Joe doesn't have it and never has. He's a great all-around player and I love having him on the team, but he's lacking on some of the intangibles to be that #1 guy.

Here are a few highlights from last season

11-11 Seattle ( loss ) - JJ makes lay-up to put us up 1. Ray Allen makes lay-up with 2 seconds left to put them up 1.

11-14 Bucks (loss)- This was the memorable duel between JJ and Redd. JJ scored 6 pts in the final 2:24 but they lost when Redd hit a shot and got bailed out by the refs, getting the foul call. He made the ft and the Hawks lost by 1. JJ finished with 29 pts on 10-18 shooting.

12-6 Nuggets - JJ had 9 pts and 3 assists in the fourth quarter comeback at Denver. A double-teamed JJ finds Shelden in the paint, who makes a good move to get fouled. Shelden hits the 2 FTs and we win the game. JJ didn't get an assist, but his ability to find Shelden essentially won the game for us. He finished with 27 pts on 9-18.

1-12 Pistons - JJ had 10 pts in the 4th and also the assist on the game winning basket by Smith. He finished with 34 pts on 13-17 shooting.

1-26 Orlando- Orlando had a 14 pt lead at halftime after the Hawks only scored 12 pts in the second quarter. Then JJ went off for 26 pts in the second half, finishing with 39 on 14-23 shooting . He scored 7 of the last 8 pts for the Hawks.

1-29 Orlando - JJ scored 22 of his 34 pts in the second half to scorch Orlando again, shooting 12-24.

2-4 Nets - JJ scored 25 pts in the second half and OT, including the Hawks last basket in regulation, setting up Lue's OT heroics. He finished with 37 pts on 12-23 shooting, 4-6 from 3 and 9-10 from the line. JJ started that game shooting 2-8.

2-7 Warriors - JJ became the playmaker against the Warriors, getting 8 assists in the second half finishing with 11 for the game along with 21 pts and only 1 turnover.

2-9 Suns- Johnson scored 17 of his 32 points in the fourth quarter. JJ sank a pair of late 3-pointers, one in a decisive 8-0 run.

2-14 Clippers - JJ hits a floater with 19 seconds left to put the Hawks up by 2. Then he hits 4 straight fts to ice it. He was 4-8 from the ft line before hitting 4 straight at the end.

And this year

Against Dallas JJ had 6 pts and an assist in the last 2 minutes to ice the game, finishing 12-22 from the field.

Against Detroit JJ started 1-5. But he scored 17 pts in the second half and hit back to back 3s with a minute left to pull the Hawks within one. He finished 9-17 from the field.

AtLaS · November 12, 2007

You also didn't mention the first time we played the Cavs last year when JJ completely took the game over in OT. Not to mention he hit back to back game winners in 05-06 and was considered one of the clutchest players in the league.

I've noticed STLAtlHawks has been bashing alot of players recently. If you don't score your average, or have a few bad games he calls it bad attitude, they suck, they need to be traded, etc. He sounds awfully similar to Walter (although Walt has seemed rather calm lately).

exodus · November 12, 2007

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(although Walt has seemed rather calm lately).

Just wait until Marvin has a bad game. Then Walter will be back to himself.

AtLaS · November 12, 2007

Yeah probably. DAMN I just noticed how bad my grammar was on that last post, don't know wtf happened lol. I fixed most of it though.

AnnArborHawk · November 12, 2007

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I've noticed STLAtlHawks has been bashing alot of players recently. If you don't score your average, or have a few bad games he calls it bad attitude, they suck, they need to be traded, etc. He sounds awfully similar to Walter (although Walt has seemed rather calm lately).

I've "bashed" two players (actually only one if you really read my comments). Josh Smith (his offense only) over the first several games, and deservedly so. You might also note that I gave him props for his offense performance in the Washington game (despite the loss). He played very under-control, chose good shots, and his numbers reflected that.

And I posted an article earlier today where the Detroit News said Smoove has a bad attitude. I just posted the article. So what if I believe between that, getting suspended for arguing with Woody last year, and flicking off the fans that I think Smoove has a bad attitude. Call me a realist.

I've always said the guy has a bad attitude, poor offensive skills, but is a freak athletically and plays solid D. I just call them like I see them, and I think a lot of people would agree with me on that (pretty much anyone who isn't a Smoove homer). If you think I'm wrong on that, try getting out of Atlanta every once in a while.

As for JJ, I've always said he isn't a #1 guy. Feel free to disagree, but he's best suited as a #2 guy. I also said he's a great all-around player, just not a #1. If that's bashing him, so be it, but I was making that point well before this season started.

If you can find anyone else I've bashed on here, since I've bashed A LOT of players, please call me out on it.

I guess on these boards you're called a hater if you don't take your turn sniffing Smoove's jock. If that's the case, call me what you will and enjoy your next whiff.

AnnArborHawk · November 12, 2007

Correction, I've also "bashed" T. Lue.

TheNorthCydeRises · November 13, 2007