My biggest problem with Woodson...

[Sothron]

His inability to change.

For years now we have seen his offense: a plodding half court set with a few screens or curls or the occasional pick and roll or pick and screen. Very little movement without the ball and almost zero low post game. The result? An offense that mostly stands around with the big men doing nothing but setting a screen and almost totally reliant on the jumpshot.

We have a general manager that wants a running team. We have an ownership that wants a fast paced running team that likes to score in bunches. What we actually have is a coach that is 100% against running and is absolutely determined to run the same plodding pound the ball for twenty seconds on the shot clock half court set offense.

If you were Mike Woodson and you knew your NBA future was hanging by a thread and the half court offense was not working...would you not change? Would you not run? What is there to lose? I mean not to sound funny here but we already ARE losing every season.

He has no disincentive NOT to run. And yet he continues to run the same offense every game. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for the players to know they have the young legs to really run and play some press on defense to generate turnovers. Instead they are locked in a half court offense that with no inside scoring is not going to work.

They gave Woodson Horford and he still does not run a good offense. Horford has shown in college and in the pros his 16 foot jumper and some back to the basket moves. Why aren't they dumping him in the ball in the blocks? Why did Smoove work all summer with Hakeem to learn low post moves and never, hold on, get a chance to be IN the low post??

It makes no sense. This reminds me of the Falcons last season when the Panthers ran a single wing offense the entire game and just ran the ball nonstop and Ed Zonatell refused to change the defense out of the cover 3 zone to adjust. His precious scheme was too important for him to actually adapt to the reality of the game.

Woodson is exactly the same kind of coach. What separates him from a good coach in Fratello is exactly that kind of ability to change. When Fratello over his long coaching history has a team built to run...they run. When they have a team built for a half court set (or they aren't any good on offense...see his Cleveland teams) they run that.

Woodson has the keys to a 6.2 HEMI V8 and instead of turning it over he goes back to his safe 4 cylinder PT Cruiser. Its time to park the Cruiser and break out the Charger Super Bee Mike.

[BHayley]

Good post...

The problem with Woodson is he THINKS we're an uptempo team. To be honest, if Smoove, Acie, or Salim are not carrying the ball upcourt, it is just a half-court offense.

Most of the time, our offense consists of JJ sprinting the ball upcourt, WAITING for the rest of the team, and then we have that same miserable offense.

The thing that pisses me off the most about Woodson is the fact that EVERY year we lose at least 30 games where we are in contention for 45 minutes, then we just collapse. This can be attributed to JJ being pressured and players like Marvin not being assertive enough to take that shot. More importantly, Woody a lot of the times does not have the correct personnel in (Lue and Salim in at the end of the Sonics game?) and doesn't realize when a player is ice-cold, to take them out and get rebounding help in (Shelden).

I'm telling you, with good play in the last 3 or so minutes of games, we'd easily be winning 40 games a year. You can name any NBA team, and I will tell you at least two games that pop up over the years where we had the game in hand and then let it fall through our hands like quicksand.

Also, what really annoys me is Woody's substitution patterns.

For example, Horford played 53 minutes on Friday against the Sonics. ZaZa played 22. Now we know ZaZa plays no defense, but the guy was 7-13 with 6 rebounds in 22 minutes...Do the math...

Also, Woody continues to ABUSE the PF position. Putting lanky Josh Childress and Marvin at that position when you have no center in will get us destroyed. Why not let Shelden play 30 minutes in one of these games, don't pull him, and see what he can do? His rebounding at the end of the games has been crucial, but instead we are giving up all the rebounds because he isn't in.

[exodus]

To be fair they have been making more of an effort to run, especially when Acie is playing. They have even been running after made baskets at times.

But it is hard to run when you have two old, slow pgs.

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Horford has shown in college and in the pros his 16 foot jumper and some back to the basket moves. Why aren't they dumping him in the ball in the blocks?

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Maybe they will when he decides to stop making turnovers at such a furious pace. And it would be nice if, when catching the ball right under the basket, he would just go straight up with it. Instead he has to bring the ball down to his knees to gather himself for a big slam which gives the defense time to strip him or foul him and force him to make foul shots.

[Diesel]

Speaking on Woody using Fratello as an example.

For the past few years since BK left, I have watched the Memphis Grizzlies. When they finally got Big country off the books, they started to make some good moves. The best in my opinion was getting Mike Miller and Mike Fratello. The worse was getting Jerry West.

Mike Fratello made Memphis a playoff team with Miller, Gasol, and Stoudamire. The problem was that Fratello was never West's choice. Fratello was Heisley's choice for Coach. West thought that Fratello would fall on his face but what happened was Fratello did what he always do, he found the strength of the team and he won with that. Of course, the strength of that team was with Gasol and Miller. Jerry West was upset because he wanted Mussleman to be his coach. He even did so much to make it evident when he hired Mussleman and put him on Fratello's coaching staff as Top Assistant. Welp, Sacramento came a calling and Mussleman went to take the job. This caused great problems between West and Fratello. For years, West had been squandering draft picks... like Dahntay Jones and Bell and picking up guys like Swift and Cardinal (wasting money)... However, Fratello won with whatever he gave him... UNTIL Pau went down.

When Pau Went Down, Fratello had a team that he had made to be a Halfcourt team (Pau inside, Miller/Jones/Battier/Jackson outside) to now having guys like Warrick/Gay on his team. Fratello still played Jones because Jones was a vet who could play defense, but he was not playing uptempo like West wanted him to because Fratello realized that Pau was coming back and Pau wouldn't work in an uptempo system. So with this being the case, coming off of a playoff birth with half your team hurt and the other half (battier, Jones) traded away... West fired Fratello claiming that he can't coach uptempo.

In his last move, West, made sure that the Griz would hire Ivaroni and prove that this team is uptempo. However, they still have Gasol (who is slumping).

The Lesson applies to us in this way...

Whereas Fratello was a coach who could find his players strength and recognized that an inside out game was more suitable for Memphis than uptempo... Woody is the exact opposite. He's not one able to find the strength of this team... Moreover, I don't think Woody can truly coach up-tempo. Nor does he have the desire to. Woody pushed for the Shelden selection. I understand it, but Shelden is not uptempo. Woody pushed for the Speedy trade. I understand it, but his reasoning was not to build an uptempo team. Woody wants a Detroit like team with interchangeable parts who can play good defense and the offense will come. That's the problem. That's so far away from up-tempo and far away from the strength of this team.

Woody should be replaced by Del Harris!!! Or Alvin Gentry!!!

[AnnArborHawk]

Good post. I don't think Woody has the cohones to change. If we really want to be a running team, then Woody has to trust his guys near the basket to come up with the rebound on a miss - enough to cut one of the guards loose when the shot goes up.

I think Woody can't break himself of the conservative mentality to box out 5 guys with 5 guys. It's hard to blame him seeing has we have gotten outrebounded at times, especially when the intensity hasn't been there. Now when Horford has a few games under his belt and we're consistently outrebounding teams (which is a team effort), if he doesn't cut them loose then he never will.

I think Woody's just afraid to send a guard down-court on a miss only to give up an offensive rebound and an easy bucket. He'd rather play it conservative and be hanging around in the 4th quarter to have a shot at it. On the one hand, I understand where he's coming from. On another hand, you may not ever really know what you have until you cut these guys loose.

Sure, you'll get blown out a few times when you get outrebounded. After all, Phoenix's 2 losses were by a combined 30 points, but at some point when you're in the game in the 4th quarter just to lose more often than not, it's time to take a chance.

[Sothron]

I actually agree with everything you said.

[coachx]

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Woody should be replaced by Del Harris!!! Or Alvin Gentry!!!

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Why Alvin Gentry ? Didn't he coach the Pistons when they had Grant Hill. Did he coach the Suns in between Skiles and D'Antoni.

Fill me in on why you like Gentry ? I am curious.

[Frenzy]

FIRE WOODY!!!!!HE'S NO GOODY!!!!!!

[Lawstudent101]

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FIRE WOODY!!!!!HE'S NO GOODY!!!!!!

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[coachx]

I have seen drastic improvement with the offense this year over last year.

We are moving much better on offense and we are pushing the tempo. Especially the first 7 games before Law went down.

We looked tired during the Bucks game, as expected after a double over time game the night before. After that Sonics game they immediatly flew to Milwaulkee. I doubt the players got in bed before 4:00 AM, EST.

Before the last 2 losses we were all sky high on how the offense was playing better with alot of movement and how we were running more then last year.

I am not saying this in defense of Woodson but in defense of the team in general. We were making HUGE strides as a team prior to Law going down. We simply don't have another PG who can push the tempo or run a team. I am all for getting a better coach, too bad the list of unemployed coaches is short and the ownership battle in never ending.

Any coaches for hire who come with a PG ?

[Diesel]

Gentry has had two coaching Stints..

One with Detroit with Hill (that was a playoff team).

The other with LAClipps when they had those kids. (that was a fun to watch failure.).

What made both situations interesting is that Gentry is really an uptempo coach.

In fact, right now he's the top assistant in Phoenix.

However, you could really see it with the Clipps.

Check this article out:

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There are people in the NBA who get the credit. And then there are assistant coaches.

The Suns assistants are overshadowed by the accomplishments on an All-Star roster and a clever head coach.

Mike D'Antoni's staff with the Suns includes Alvin Gentry, Phil Weber, Dan D'Antoni and Jay Humphries. Gentry has been a part of 177 Phoenix wins over three years, but it was Marc Iavaroni who got the most recognition and the opportunity for a head-coaching job in Memphis.

The Suns' revival began when he came in 2004... Steve Nash, that is. But Gentry arrived at the same time with a wealth of basketball acumen and anecdotes. He began coaching in 1977 as a Colorado graduate assistant and is entering his 20th NBA season. That includes three head-coaching stints. A fourth may come if another team wants to model the Suns.

"I could do a much better job because you never stop learning," said Gentry, who turns 53 next week. "If that opportunity doesn't come, I'm very happy to be here. My wife and I talk about it a lot. This is the best situation I've been in 20 years. Our staff has the best chemistry of any staff I've been on. We're as prepared as any team."

Gentry became the unofficial lead assistant upon Iavaroni's departure, but the Suns shun the title, citing a system in which assistants carry an equal load of opinions and advance work.

"He is invaluable with his experience and knowledge of players in game planning," D'Antoni said. "Because of Alvin's presence, we didn't have to bring in a real experienced guy to replace Marc."

Gentry's life is entrenched in basketball. He is a cousin of former star David Thompson. He met his wife in the Spurs organization. He played for Press Maravich, Pete's father, and Bobby Cremins at Appalachian State. He's coached with Larry Brown, Kevin Loughery, Gregg Popovich and Pat Riley, among others.

Gentry's career path made him well connected, never leaving him without a job for a season. He also got a varied education. He drew from Loughery's in-game adjustments, Brown's knack for how to use players, Riley and Popovich's no-nonsense style and D'Antoni's way.

"What Mike does is where the NBA is going," Gentry said. "Mike is a brilliant offensive mind. Guys truly enjoy playing for Mike - not just style of play, but for him. He lets guys play loose and use their abilities," adding that D'Antoni taught him to not let things that don't affect winning and losing affect the players.

Gentry was 177-226 as a head coach with Miami (1995), Detroit (1997-2000) and the Los Angeles Clippers (2000-03).

He said he was "devastated" by each firing as a self-indictment of his ability until he realized, "If Pat Riley, Larry Brown and Phil Jackson can get fired, Alvin Gentry can get fired."

Gentry keeps it light. He tells great stories, like when Ledell Eackles halted a team meeting to write, "No your roll," on the board. He has a quick wit, like when the practice court lights dimmed and he said, "I thought I was working for the Clippers again."

"This job is so hard you have to laugh," Gentry said.

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[Packfill]

My biggest problem with Woody is the fact that he is a bad coach.

I can see why the players like him - the guy lets them do whatever they want is is a push-over.

[AnakinJoe]

His (Gentry) pedigree sounds very good and that was clearly a very pro-Gentry article. But I also think that Woody has a very good looking resume. He sat at the knee of Bobby Knight & Larry Brown, ex-player, Indiana roots (do children in Indiana get to play any other sport?), defensive coordinator of a fierce defensive NBA Champion, blah, blah, blah.

The other thing is that there is a big difference between running practices, advanced scouting and player development (assistant coaching tasks) and making game-time decisions about playing rotations, match-ups, play calling, etc. I think Woody still does things that show his strength as an assistant. The hard-nosed practices following the lost to the Wizards helped inspire the team to a very convincing win against nemesis Bobcats. And I personally think that his work developing these young guys as men has been outstanding (off-court sessions with Andrew Young, David Robinson, Hurricane Katrina victims, etc.) But those intra-game decisions are what drives me crazy (and his inability to develop and maintain a consistent playing personality for this team).

Diesel/Sothron, question, is that true that Woody pushed for Shelden? And does anyone know if it is true that 'Nique pushed hard for Marvin's selection? Just wondered about those rumors that I previously heard/read. Water under the bridge... and I'm not trying to hijack this post about Woody's coaching skills (or lack thereof).

[Diesel]

Woody had no head coaching experience when we took him. Gentry had been the head coach of the Heat, Pistons, and Clipps. All that and he's almost .500 as a coach.

Now this guy has coached what I believe was the most dysfunctional team in league History and made them a 40% win team. I think he knows how to coach young vets... and he would do a good job here with our offense.

Woody has no clue offensively. It's an after thought. I think that's one of the reason why Woody suffered so long. He just handed it over to an assistant and let it be. Well, Offense has to be planned as part of the total coaching scheme not an after thought. Being sure about your offense allows you to pick the right players and to put in the right defensive scheme.

My list still goes like this:

1. Harris

2. Westhead.

3. Gentry

4. Fratello

5. Porter*

I would take Terry Porter because even though his experience is limited, I think he was screwed in Milwaukee and I think he has good ideas!

[HawkNJersey]

Good thread....

I say we wait and offer Sam Cassell everything we can, when gives up basketball. He has Avery Johnson written all over him. Not to mention, instant credibility.

[AnakinJoe]

True, Gentry has sat in the big chair before.

My list (Adelman was previously at the top because I think that a Princeton-type, quick cutting, constant movement offense would be ideal with this roster). But I digress:

1. Bill Laimbeer - Leadership/toughness issue solved.

2. Del Harris - Credibility issue solved.

3. Rudy T. - Hey, I can dream, can't I?

4. Fratello - If Glavine can come home...

5. Mark Jackson - The only recent player I'd gamble on.

6. Rick Mahorn - Bill Laimbeer-light.

As much as we need an upgrade at the Head Coaching level, I also think we need a significant upgrade amongst our assistant coaches/player development staff. Did anyone stick around to hear Gerald Wilkins talk about his "player development" techniques used on his son, Damien after the Seattle game? If I were BK, I would have offered him a coaching staff job immediately after that protracted interview. He seems to know how to systematically go from fringe NBA player to top 8 rotation guy. He did it with himself and he's done it with his son. Wonder what he would do with Solomon or Salim? Likewise, I would have had Mark Price working with our PGs about 3-4 years ago when he was desperately looking for a chance to coach & live in Atlanta. And Antoine Carr would have been on my short list to work with our big men.

[Sothron]

Mark Price a few years back actually asked for an assistant job to help tutor our point guards and he was rejected by Knight.

[Guest Walter]

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1. Bill Laimbeer - Leadership/toughness issue solved.

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Within 1/2 a season we'd be one of the toughest teams in basketball. Even Tim Thomas could be made tough under Laimbeer.

I also believe that we could afford to get Laimbeer and Laimbeer would take this job despite the uncertainties. It's not only a good mentioning but a possible one.

One question? Who here thinks BK would EVER hire a coach as strong as Laimbeer? It would threaten BK TOO MUCH. Frankly, if BK hires the next coach, even an external one, he will be worse than Woody. Gotta get BK out of this decision making process. Not that our owners have good judgement. Sigh.

W

[Sothron]

Laimbeer is desperate for a NBA head coaching job. Its actually an intriguing possibility. The Spirit could safely pay him cheap for a number of reasons given his past and his inexperience as a coach and in return they take the chance he actually does become a good NBA head coach.

[drzachary]

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Mark Price a few years back actually asked for an assistant job to help tutor our point guards and he was rejected by Knight.

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Gah!!!!!!!!!!!