My biggest problem with Woodson...

[AHF]

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Mark Price a few years back actually asked for an assistant job to help tutor our point guards and he was rejected by Knight.

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Gah!!!!!!!!!!!

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What could someone like Mark Price offer our PGs the last few years? Other than the ability to be a star player with subpar physical skills? Who wants that?

[BHayley]

Can't you tell one of your contacts this anonymously somehow?

Unless we want Woody to win 34 games this year and get an extension or some garbage.

So we could've gotten Adelman as our coach, Mark Price as an assistant, and with those two, probably a ton of other great assistants.

I don't know if anyone here remembers or saw it, but at the Woodward scrimmage 4 weeks ago, Woody said to the crowd that "I think I have the best coaching staff in the league."

Are you serious?

Bob Bender just sits there, chewing on his gum 300 times a minute and the rest of the bums just tell how we need to "play better defense."

*DING DING DING*!

[Sothron]

I thought you guys knew that? I knew about it but I also thought it was covered in the press or mentioned here by Jaywalker. I know for a fact Jaywalker and I talked about it on the phone and I was furious they didn't give him a job.

[drzachary]

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I thought you guys knew that? I knew about it but I also thought it was covered in the press or mentioned here by Jaywalker. I know for a fact Jaywalker and I talked about it on the phone and I was furious they didn't give him a job.

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You probably mentioned it but I blocked it out for the sake of my own mental health. Ergh.

[coachx]

Thanks for the info on Gentry. All I could remember about him was when he coached Grant Hill back in his prime.

Those Clippers teams are of Q. Rich & Darius Miles as teens were not very memorable.

Now I see why you like him. He has a pedigree of coaching expierence. I would like to be on the inside and know what JJ has to say about Gentry on being head coaching material.

I would give a guy like Fratello a slight edge simply b/c he has won as a true Head Coach with 3 different that went to the playoffs playig 3 different styles. Fratello is more then 1 system coach. Not many coaches could have taken that Cleveland team as far as he took them.

I definately agree that Gentry would make a good candidate and hope he gets a interview. Especially if up tempo is the way to go.

Thanks for the info.

[coachx]

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Mark Price a few years back actually asked for an assistant job to help tutor our point guards and he was rejected by Knight.

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Didn't Price come in one summer to work with some guys on their shooting ? Then went to Austalia to coach or advise their national team ?

That may have been before BK in the Babcock days. (when Price actually came in one summer and worked with our guys)

[coachx]

It is bad when good coaching candidates (Alderman / Price)are actually inquiring about a coaching vacancy and BK tell his agent his best friend is holding on to the job.

I am not a Woody hater and give him more rope then most. However, and upgrade is an upgrade. If Alderman made himself available and we did not make a move any fan of the team should be dissapointed. I wonder if he called before the ASG won the appeal when ownership truely had their hands tied even more then they do now.

[Diesel]

I'm not sold on Lambeer yet. I know the toughness blah blah blah... but I think our problems mainly start at the Xs and Os.. then we move to the toughness. That's why I say give me Harris or give me Westhead... Strick discipline taught coaches who knows how to work the Xs and Os for any situation.

[Sothron]

That was Adelman's agent who was calling about a *possible* vacancy because there was some thought Woodson wasn't going to come back this season. Knight simply told his agent the truth regarding our ownership/front office situation and it was enough to kill Adelman's interest.

[Johann]

Here is a real wild idea that occurred to me recently. Harrick.

I know, college coaches don't work (exception: Larry Brown). But this guy, as far as x's and o's, can't be beat - his offensive scheme is a thing of beauty. And his defenses are pretty good also.

He would take the job for nearly nothing - he's coaching in the d-league right now.

He has integrity issues, but that relates to the NCAA and its tough rules on player income. Players love him. He's great at PR. I might just consider it, as an interim alternative to Larry Drew...

[Diesel]

I got this one question about him.

How good is he when he doesn't have recruiting? Harrick always came off a little dirty. However, I'd put him on the list but he's like 17th.

If I have to take less experienced, I'd take Porter. Terry Porter would be a good coach!!

[AHF]

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Here is a real wild idea that occurred to me recently. Harrick.

I know, college coaches don't work (exception: Larry Brown). But this guy, as far as x's and o's, can't be beat - his offensive scheme is a thing of beauty. And his defenses are pretty good also.

He would take the job for nearly nothing - he's coaching in the d-league right now.

He has integrity issues, but that relates to the NCAA and its tough rules on player income. Players love him. He's great at PR. I might just consider it, as an interim alternative to Larry Drew...

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Having him for anything would be distasteful to me but you are talking about bringing him in as an assistant, right? Not a head coach?

He sure can teach a well-oiled offense, that is for sure.

[TexasPete]

I actually am good friends with Mark Price and he has nothing good to say about anything with the Hawks. It is true that is offered (free of charge) to work with our PG's and to work with Childress on his shot. He was turned down.

He sat in on some practices and was blown away by how disorganized they were. He commented that BK and Woody stood off and talked and laughed while the assistants ran things. He said this was standard practice.

He has not been there this year so it may be different. He is working at Suwanee Sports Academy quite a bit...after he was fired from his Australia job in only 5 days.

Anyway, he wanted to work with our young guys and was turned down. Thats too bad because nobody knows more about shooting than him.

[AHF]

You can tell him Hawks fans would love to see him work with the players and hope that some of the player will seek him out without team involvement (ala J.Smith with Hakeem and Murphy).

[Sothron]

Is Texas Pete actually confirming something I wrote about?

[coachx]

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I actually am good friends with Mark Price and he has nothing good to say about anything with the Hawks. It is true that is offered (free of charge) to work with our PG's and to work with Childress on his shot. He was turned down.

He sat in on some practices and was blown away by how disorganized they were. He commented that BK and Woody stood off and talked and laughed while the assistants ran things. He said this was standard practice.

He has not been there this year so it may be different. He is working at Suwanee Sports Academy quite a bit...after he was fired from his Australia job in only 5 days.

Anyway, he wanted to work with our young guys and was turned down. Thats too bad because nobody knows more about shooting than him.

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Wow fired in 5 days ! I have to ask what brought that on ? Questioning authority figure (head coach's abilities)?

Doubt you can answer out of respect to your friend but I had to ask.

I have alwayse wanted to sit in on some Hawks practices to see how they were run. Hard to comment on coaches b/c we, as fans, no little about what happens behind the scenes and how they practice.

I have sat in on UGA practices when they had Harrick. It was a pure clinic. He even brought the legendary Coach Wooden in for a speaking engagement.

Any way, the practices that Harrick would run were pure clinics. I worked at his summer camp as a "coach" and had a blast. He has some real offensive talent with: DA Layne, Ezra Williams, Jarvis Hayse, Jonan Hayes, Rashard Wright, etc. He ran a true motion offense that was deadly if you could keep 3 to 4 shooters on the floor at all times. It was truely a thing of beauty. Onething theyhad was an ALL-SES PG in Rashard Right. Jarvis Hayes was a straight up stud. Man, those are the last good memories I have of UGA basketball. Such a long time ago.

Its ashame that every where he went he ended up on probabtion. He could have been a legendary coach if he would not have cheated on recruiting or helped players with grades.

When Lamar Odom shows up at Rhode Island you know something ain't right.

Sorry, I meant to focus on Price and ended up taking a trip down memory lane.

[coachx]

Here is my theory on why BK said no thanks to Mark Price.

(From BK's mouth)

Heaven forbid and X-NBA PG come in here, who knows more then Woody & I, and get the owner's ear about how he (Mark Price) would do things.

Heaven forbid some one with actual organization and structure come in here and screw with all this chaos we have worked so hard to create.

[Traceman]

Smoove and Chillz because he apparently is EXTRMELY tough on his players.

I saw an HBO special that revealed that while the Shock players respect the fact that he has gotten results, they literally HATE him as a person. This was not just a few players but pretty much ALL of them. Swin Cash, Cheryl Ford and Deana Nolan said that the team hated him so much that they had created a "F*ck Bill" jar that they all had to pay money into after they cursed him for something that he said or did. More importantly, all 3 of them said that there was no way that he could coach men because they wouldn't be able to take some of the things that he said to them or did to them. They all felt that someone would "go Sprewell" on him.

Once we got Smoov'e and Chillz' contract situation's straightened out, I MIGHT be willing to give Laimbeer a shot but I think I would like a Del Harris type first.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm a person who sees the Griz, just as much as I see the Hawks. I might even go to Memphis this weekend, and check out the Griz vs the Washington Arenases.

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Mike Fratello made Memphis a playoff team with Miller, Gasol, and Stoudamire. The problem was that Fratello was never West's choice. Fratello was Heisley's choice for Coach. West thought that Fratello would fall on his face but what happened was Fratello did what he always do, he found the strength of the team and he won with that. Of course, the strength of that team was with Gasol and Miller. Jerry West was upset because he wanted Mussleman to be his coach. He even did so much to make it evident when he hired Mussleman and put him on Fratello's coaching staff as Top Assistant. Welp, Sacramento came a calling and Mussleman went to take the job. This caused great problems between West and Fratello. For years, West had been squandering draft picks... like Dahntay Jones and Bell and picking up guys like Swift and Cardinal (wasting money)... However, Fratello won with whatever he gave him... UNTIL Pau went down.

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First off, Hubie Brown made Memphis a playoff, not Mike Fratello. Hubie laid the foundation as far as work ethic, the offensive rotation of 9 - 10 men, and a commitment to defense, right after Memphis fired Lowe.

It was also Hubie that was HAND PICKED by Jerry West. Hell, that man was long retired, and had little desire to return to coaching, until West begged him to come out of retirement and take over, what was then, EASILY THE WORST FRANCHISE IN THE NBA. That was BY FAR the best move Memphis made in that 3 year stretch in which they made the playoffs.

Fratello inherited a team that already knew how to play. And frankly, he didn't make them any better than what they were. Don't get me wrong, he definitely didn't deserve to get fired, with Gasol being out most of the first part of last season. But it's not like he built that Memphis team and had them doing great things either.

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When Pau Went Down, Fratello had a team that he had made to be a Halfcourt team (Pau inside, Miller/Jones/Battier/Jackson outside) to now having guys like Warrick/Gay on his team.

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Wrong again. That was all Hubie that established Memphis' style of play 2 years earlier. Fratello just didn't let them lose a step. He didn't make Memphis worse, but he didn't make them better either. When Gasol went down, that's when the problems started.

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Fratello still played Jones because Jones was a vet who could play defense, but he was not playing uptempo like West wanted him to because Fratello realized that Pau was coming back and Pau wouldn't work in an uptempo system. So with this being the case, coming off of a playoff birth with half your team hurt and the other half (battier, Jones) traded away... West fired Fratello claiming that he can't coach uptempo.

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LOL. Fratello took over from Brown during the 04 - 05 season. A season in which they still had Jason Williams running the point. They won 45 games that year and averaged around 93 ppg. The next year, they won 49 games and averaged 92 ppg.

So your theory was that because the Griz wasn't playing uptempo, but WINNING GAMES AND MAKING THE PLAYOFFS, that West fired Fratello the next year, because of his plodding style of play? The same style that Hubie had the team running in 2003, when they first turned the corner? You sure there wasn't something else in play here?

You do remember what happened after the Suns swept the Griz in the 05 Playoffs right? Remember . . "You ain't writin' nothin' homeboy!! You ain't writin' nothin?" West had to bust up that successful group, with Williams Bonzi Wells being the problem children. So he give those two the boot, along with Posey, and brings in Stoudamire, Atkins, and Jones.

But what probably did Fratello in, was that pizz poor performance against Dallas, when the Griz were a 5 seed and Dallas a 4 seed. Not only did they get swept, they averaged under 90 ppg that series.

That was an indication to West that not only did they not have the talent to compete against the West playoff teams, it might be an indication that Fratello had taken that team as far as he could've taken them.

And remember, we're not talking about a Memphis team that was making the playoffs for the first time ever. They had been to the playoffs 3 consecutive years by then, and hadn't won a single playoff game. And with Fratello being the coach for 2 of those seasons, the heat was definitely on him.

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In his last move, West, made sure that the Griz would hire Ivaroni and prove that this team is uptempo. However, they still have Gasol (who is slumping).

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I don't think it had anything to prove that the team was uptempo. It's just that they weren't winning playing Fratello-ball, with the personnel they had and with Gasol out.

You talk about adjusting? Fratello didn't adjust when Gasol was out. With Gasol out, their only chance at winning, even competing in games, was to try to play fast. That team struggled to break the 95 point barrier on most nights, while playing atrocious defense. The Griz was 6 - 24 when he got fired.

I think West wanted to make the team more athletic, seeing that Phoenix and Dallas had swept the Griz in the playoffs in 2 consecutive years. If anything, he wanted to construct a team that plays like them. And if Fratello wasn't the right coach . . . well, you know how the story ends.

West definitely isn't perfect. And he definitely made a few questionable moves in Memphis. But he made more good moves than bad.

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The Lesson applies to us in this way...

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Hmmmm . . I can't wait to read this.

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Whereas Fratello was a coach who could find his players strength and recognized that an inside out game was more suitable for Memphis than uptempo... Woody is the exact opposite. He's not one able to find the strength of this team... Moreover, I don't think Woody can truly coach up-tempo. Nor does he have the desire to.

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Once again, Hubie established what that team's strength was, not Fratello. And Fratello didn't adjust to Gasol being out, which led to that horrible record.

Diesel, how many teams run an uptempo offense with their forwards being the main guys pushing the ball up the court? Does Phoenix do it? Does Golden St do it? Does Memphis do it? Utah? Dallas? Every single one of those teams have guards . . GUARDS . . who push the ball up the floor and make life easier for the wings. Yet, people want the Hawks to do the exact opposite, and still run the floor?

LOL . . Imagine Carlos Boozer, Amare, Pau Gasol or Dirk trying to do the same ish that Josh Smith does. LOL @ Amare grabbing a rebound, and almost flat out refusing to give the ball to Nash, and running the mini-fast break himself. That would be totally counterproductive to being a running team. And that's exactly what we do.

And look what style of play Memphis played when they WON. Even you admit that Fratello, and his inside-outside philosophy ( the one that Hube also used ), won games for Memphis.

Like it or not guys, the Hawks have won when they've done these three things.

1) rebound the basketball

2) get stops, key stops, late in games

3) execute in the half court offense

When we do those 3 things, we win.

We are 14th in offensive FG% . . and 26th in defensive FG%. Which number do you think contributes to us losing games?

This team is NOT built to run . . this team is built to ATTACK. Whether it be on the fast break, or within the half court offense, these guys should always be in ATTACK MODE . . not PLAY FAST mode.

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Woody wants a Detroit like team with interchangeable parts who can play good defense and the offense will come. That's the problem. That's so far away from up-tempo and far away from the strength of this team.

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LOL . . like this would be a BAD thing? Man please. Detroit is EXACTLY who we should be trying to play like. Detroit is an ATTACK style team, both on offense and on defense. They force you to play hard on BOTH ends of the floor. They can run, or shut you down.

So . . I guess you would rather us play like Memphis and Golden St? Kinda pretty on offense, but horrible on defense? Well, that's exactly how we're playing when we lose games. We take a lot of jumpers, we don't attack the rim or the boards, and we aren't aggresive enough on defense. That's why we lose. Oh, but "running" looks so much better. We look good, but don't win. Fug that !!

I'd LOVE to see this team play like the "boring" 1996 Hawks that used to average under 95 ppg, but shut people down defensively and win games.

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Woody should be replaced by Del Harris!!! Or Alvin Gentry!!!

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[Guest Walter]

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because he apparently is EXTRMELY tough on his players...

Once we got Smoov'e and Chillz' contract situation's straightened out, I MIGHT be willing to give Laimbeer a shot but I think I would like a Del Harris type first.

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They are RESTRICTED FAs. Only Chillz is really a risk and frankly I'd be looking to trade him and put off his cost since we can't afford all these guys anyhow.

After 4 years of losing at a record pace with a "nice guy", I would hope they would jump at the chance to play for a coach that actually got results.

W