A shocking statistic and its progression...

[mrhonline]

I want to look at this stat a little closer when I get more time (e.g., only in games where he played more than 10 minutes, win-loss record), but I took a quick look at games where Josh Smith had as many missed shots as rebounds.

In 2004-5, 36.5% of his games had as many missed shots as rebounds.

In 2005-6, 45%.

In 2006-7, 50%.

In 2007-8, 100% so far.

The good news is that he's getting four extra "free" points per game at the line compared with his rookie season, but his TS% has not improved - it hovers consistently around 50% (below average) every season he's been in the league.

Basically, the Josh Smith of season 1 is the same Josh Smith of season 4, except he gets to the line more and takes more shots.

[Sothron]

I reported this earlier but when Josh didn't get the extension he wanted he's basically playing this entire season for himself to pad his stats as much as possible to try and land a larger deal as a RFA.

[SmooveTheFuture]

yawn he had a bad game he wasnt the only one that didnt come to play its funny some clowns on here wanna blame this guy for everything that goes wrong. He was the main reason we didnt lose by 20 to the lowly bucks where was the complaining its ridculous.

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

yawn someone posts something absolutely grounded in what actually happens on the court and just because I am more of a Smith fan than a Hawks' fan, I ramble incessantly about "other players."

---

FYP

[SmooveTheFuture]

Everygame he is the scape goat why is that. Why wasnt he the scape goat when he was the only who played vs the bucks? If you think we are better without him you are out of your mind. Bench him for the rest of the season and lets see how many games the hawks win.

[mrhonline]

No one is suggesting the Hawks bench him. They're suggesting the Hawks move him for a player of equal talent that fills a need before the Hawks get stuck overpaying him.

But you're getting away from the point of the thread - are you not troubled by the fact that Smith has been highly inefficient (which I'm defining as missed FGA >= rebounds) for a forward in the majority of his games this year, and virtually HALF of his games over the past 2+ seasons?

That's not as big of a deal if he's making MLE or less, but at $10M per, it's troubling.

[TexasPete]

Actually Smoovethefuture is pretty solid with everything Josh does...

[SmooveTheFuture]

Im not saying he hasnt been playing up and down but cmon every game this guy gets blasted like he is the only one playing the game. But the same people bashing him now are the same ones who say nothing when he plays well so what gives? Obviously we need him to play better but every game its the same crap it gets old people dont realize we have one of the worst coaches in the nba. If he is taking jumpers the coach should yank him why doesnt woodson do that.

[mrhonline]

SmoovetheFuture, I don't know how I can make this any clearer to you. This isn't about one game or ten.

This is about what's best for the Hawks long-term. And as shocking as it may seem, there are plenty of Hawks' fans who don't think it's in the Hawks' best interest to invest $60M in a player that is still wildly inconsistent yet frequently inefficient despite being in his fourth year as a player.

Now that he's entering the final year of his contract, the stakes are much higher for Josh Smith. He knows it, the Hawks know it, and most of us know it.

[GST]

Quote:

---

If he is taking jumpers the coach should yank him why doesnt woodson do that.

---

This is the $64,000 question. Why won't Woody reign him in?

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

This is about what's best for the Hawks long-term.

---

And trading a 21 year old player who is capable of what he's capable of is NOT best for the Hawks long-term.

Quote:

---

And as shocking as it may seem, there are plenty of Hawks' fans who don't think it's in the Hawks' best interest to invest $60M in a player that is still wildly inconsistent yet frequently inefficient despite being in his fourth year as a player.

---

He's also only 21 years old and this will not continue if we get a legit coach in here.

You still don't understand, MrH. WHAT should we do in Woodson's "1 on 1" offense? JJ is the ONLY player that can create, so what do you suggest we do? Give the ball to AJ and tell people to get out of the way and let him create? Give it to Horford who isn't ready to be a goto player? Give it to Marvin who is too timid to go 1 on 1 (he only shoots when he's open, or catches in stride)? Give it too Salim?

You are completely failing to realize that we HAVE to rely on Smith creating in Woodson's despicable offense, as bad as that is. If ANY of our other players were given the ball to go 1 on 1 they would ALSO be wildly inconsistent and inefficient. JJ has also been inconsistent this season, why do you suppose that is?

[Sothron]

Josh has poor shooting mechanics and after four years in the NBA he should have at least developed an adequate jumper due to his position and size. Unfortunately he still does not have one. I like Josh but is he worth a max contract with an eFG that is just deplorable? I can not honestly say yes to that question.

[mrhonline]

You've dodged the question. What offensive skills does Josh Smith have that another coach can use? He dunks well, but that's IT. He doesn't have the shot, the ballhandling ability, or the post-up ability vs. good NBA forwards. A new coach can yank him out of the game like Woodson does from time to time for boneheaded plays, but he can't teach him how to shoot or how to dribble the ball.

You can complain about the coach all you want, but the REALITY is that there will be no new (proven) coach until AFTER you have to make a decision on Smith. So, based on that REALITY, has Smith shown you enough to justify $10M+?

I don't think he has, and I don't think his potential is as limitless as it was when he first came into the league. This is his fourth season in the NBA, and at some point you'd expect more progression from a player with such "untapped potential." It may in fact be that Smith will never be a good offensive player.

For the past three seasons, Smith's low contract was a huge bargain relative to his potential. But if you take away that cheap contract, you have to reevaluate your position on him and how well he fits the team's plans long-term.

(And I don't know why the Smith apologists don't understand this, but again, no one is suggesting you throw him away. We're suggesting you move him for something of equal value that fits your team better both on the court and financially).

[oiatlhawksfan]

For a 21 year old, who can give you 16pts 8reb 3ast 3blks 2stl, and has yet to even touch the surface of his potiental, yes I'd invest 60 million in that. Most of todays superstars, probably still had alot to learn at Josh's age.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

(And I don't know why the Smith apologists don't understand this, but again, no one is suggesting you throw him away. We're suggesting you move him for something of equal value that fits your team better both on the court and financially).

---

That gets to the heart of the issue for me. I just have very little confidence that the Hawks could get equal value for him. It is also difficult assessing what equal value truly is. The range of possibilities for Smith's career range from NBA superstar to rich man's Darius Miles. He does not have a clearly projectable growth pattern at this point because so much of the improvement for him is mental and that just isn't something that is easy to project. I would hate to see him suddenly get good coaching for another franchise and hit that potential - which is huge. I would be open to trading anyone on this team in the right deal but would be pretty reluctant to part with Josh Smith.

[BossTweed]

The thing I'm most concerned about is his decision making and the consistency of his effort.

I think a new coach could help both of those issues. But that isn't a guarantee, and I wouldn't want to pay him big money if I'm not sure he is going to progress in those areas.

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

What offensive skills does Josh Smith have that another coach can use?

---

Passing, finishing, rebounding, garbage buckets, and slashing. He has a quick first step and can beat players off the dribble. Problem is we don't have an offense that can effectively utilize his or anyone else's skills.

Quote:

---

You can complain about the coach all you want, but the REALITY is that there will be no new (proven) coach until AFTER you have to make a decision on Smith. So, based on that REALITY, has Smith shown you enough to justify $10M+?

---

90% of NBA teams would pay Smith 10 million, that should answer your question. He will probably end up getting more than that. And YES, he has shown me enough. He is already a great defender, rebounder, and passer. He is 21 years old and has no injury history. He has the potential to be a great offensive player and WILL make numerous all-star games in his career. Trust me, I will never let y'all hear the end of it WHEN he blows up, regardless of what team it is for.

Quote:

---

This is his fourth season in the NBA, and at some point you'd expect more progression from a player with such "untapped potential."

---

Oh really? Don't even get me started on how many players have "failed" to reach their potential at age 21.

Quote:

---

(And I don't know why the Smith apologists don't understand this, but again, no one is suggesting you throw him away. We're suggesting you move him for something of equal value that fits your team better both on the court and financially).

---

You mean like Biedrins? A player that we will ALSO have to pay big money too, and who will make our offense AND defense worse? OK. Biedrins is not equal value AT ALL, y'all are just intrigued by the fact that he's a near 7 footer. The grass is always greener on the other side, and you will realize that in the near future if we rid ourselves of Smith.

[Diesel]

That's about the weakest argument there is.

Have you watched JJ? He has the poorest shooting mechanics I have ever seen on his floater.. BUt it's that poor mechanic that makes that shot unstoppable.

If Smoove hit shots, we wouldn't say s---. I say we need another coach in here who can show Smoove where he needs to be on the court and one who will yank him when he f---- up.

[Sothron]

Have you watched Smoove shoot? Do you have any confidence in his ability to hit a jump shot? If the answer is "no" and its been four years in the NBA with extensive offseason work then what else needs to be said?

[AtLaS]

Quote:

---

Have you watched Smoove shoot? Do you have any confidence in his ability to hit a jump shot? If the answer is "no" and its been four years in the NBA with extensive offseason work then what else needs to be said?

---

You are 100% correct. If you don't have a good jumper by age 21 than you will never have one.