I can't believe we won!!!!

[Peoriabird]

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That said, Smoove is still a great

Athlete

( note: this line will go completely unnoticed... WOW).

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Corrected!

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LOL!!!

That's just plain EEEEEEEvil man. Michael Meyers eeeevil.

I had to read that thing a couple times before I realized what you did to me.

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Ha! Ha!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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If you look at Smith's line in terms of possessions, I think you can see some interesting things:

+4 --> 4 possessions ended in him scoring 2 pts.

-13 --> 13 possessions ended in him missing

+2 --> 4 possessions continued by off. rebounds

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 of those led to scores

+7 --> 7 def. rebounds end Heat possessions

+2 --> 4 assists

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 were player-dependent

-3 --> 3 turnovers = ending possessions

+1 --> 2 blocks

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 resulted in end of Heat possession

+4 --> 8 FT's made

***Times 0.5, due to value of FT vs. FG

-2 --> 4 FT's missed

***Times 0.5, due to value of FT vs. FG

-2 --> 4 fouls

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 of continued Heat possessions led to scores

Total = 0

He equaled himself out tonight.

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Good breakdown MrH. So a 0 = a grade of C.

And since he made the block at the end, I'll toss him a bonus point, and give him a C+

[Sasquatch]

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What a dumb response.

How can you blame Woody for Marvin not shooting the ball?

Wow.

Let's see. Josh shoots from anywhere on the court he wants at anytime he wants. ZaZa shoots all the time. There are times when Lue and AJ take shots we think they should not and you really believe Woody has intentionally put handcuffs on a #2 overall pick that is shooting over 50% from the field?????

Wow!!!!

And you call me dumb?

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You named 4 players that get significant playing time and claimed they shoot too much. You have a good case for three of them (AJ hardly ever shoots the ball unless he's wide open).

Add in JJ's shots which are deserved. The Hawks aren't left with many shots to go around, basic math there. Plus you have to factor in that MW isn't a one-on-one player, he's a jump shooter. He benefits from ball movement, and the Hawks don't have much of it a lot of the time.

Whether it's Woody's fault or not, it's not out of the question that it could be his fault.

And you, sasquatch, are terrible.

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What?

First of all, if you are going to follow me around so much, you could at least carry my bags.

Secondly, what exactly is your point?

What the heck does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Name the 4 players that I said "shoot too much"?

Which are the 4 players that get significant playing time? AJ has only played in like 3 games.

Are you saying Marvin does not get significant playing time?

Have you had your meds today?

Somebody call down to Georgia Regional and ask for a bedcheck.

[Gray Mule]

Zaza haters - Who was there - in the end when Hawks won?

Who was in position, when JS made that block, to use his

fast hands to get the ball back in JS's hands to prevent

any more attempts? Zaza!

And, did you see him drain that open jumper in the game?

Sure, he's not great - But he ain't as awful as some believe.

And, on top of that - - - HAWKS WON!!

[mrhonline]

Thought I'd do this for the other Hawks and the Heat:

Hawks

Marvin = +10.5

JJ = +4.5

Childress = +3.0

Horford = +2.5

West = +1.0

AJ = +0.5

Smith = 0.0

Lue = -0.5

Shelden = -0.5

Zaza = -3.0

Total: +18

Heat

Shaq = +13.5

Haslem = +9.5

Hardaway = +7

Mourning = +4.5

Wade = +1.0

Davis = 0.0

Johnson = 0.0

Williams = -1.5

Parker = -1.5

Total: +32.5

Suffice it to say, the Hawks got lucky tonight. (That, and my linear weights were just rounded off to 0.5. LOL).

[Peoriabird]

The good thing about tonight is that the Hawks played much better defense especially on Shaq! Although as one poster pointed out, the refs were in Shaq's corner allowing him to walk and bull his way into the lane. They forced a lot of turn overs and allowed only 16 assist. They also held D. Wade in check! Kudos to the defense, hope it continues!

[Guest]

I don't like your way of "measuring" how someone performed. Here is why, I have listed first the Hawks:

+27 --> 27 possessions ended in him scoring 2 pts.

-50 --> 50 possessions ended in him missing

+8 --> 16 possessions continued by off. rebounds

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 of those led to scores

+29 --> 29 def. rebounds end Heat possessions

+7 --> 14 assists

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 were player-dependent

-14 --> 14 turnovers = ending possessions

+1.5 --> 3 blocks

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 resulted in end of Heat possession

+11 --> 22 FT's made

***Times 0.5, due to value of FT vs. FG

-3 --> 6 FT's missed

***Times 0.5, due to value of FT vs. FG

-11.5 --> 23 fouls

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 of continued Heat possessions led to scores

Total = 5

and now the Heat:

+25 --> 25 possessions ended in him scoring 2 pts.

-29 --> 29 possessions ended in him missing

+3.5 --> 7 possessions continued by off. rebounds

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 of those led to scores

+31 --> 31 def. rebounds end Heat possessions

+8 --> 16 assists

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 were player-dependent

-17 --> 17 turnovers = ending possessions

+5.5 --> 11 blocks

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 resulted in end of Heat possession

+13 --> 26 FT's made

***Times 0.5, due to value of FT vs. FG

-4.5 --> 9 FT's missed

***Times 0.5, due to value of FT vs. FG

-12 --> 24 fouls

***Times 0.5, assuming 1/2 of continued Heat possessions led to scores

Total = 23.5

Even if you adjust for steals and threes, the Heat dominated this game by your criteria. I think you are on the right track in terms of finding some sort of +/- but you need to do a lot more work in making this an effective measure of how someone is playing.

[mrhonline]

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Even if you adjust for steals and threes, the Heat dominated this game by your criteria. I think you are on the right track in terms of finding some sort of +/- but you need to do a lot more work in making this an effective measure of how someone is playing.

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I don't really like it either, HF. Suggestions are welcome. (I know there are several linear weights out there, but I can't find them right now).

I was adjusting for threes and steals, I just didn't put it in my "notes." Obviously, I've underrated something(s). Since the Hawks won, I'd say that I've underrated offensive rebounds. (And I'm sure I miscounted at least once, b/c I wasn't using Excel or a calculator).

Beyond that, it's hard to say. A player can get double credit, too. An offensive foul = TO + 0.5PF, so that's not good. A 0.5 block + rebound of block = not good. A rebound of a 2nd free throw is different depending on whether the player hit the FT or not.

I'd say I've overrated blocks and def. rebounds, while underrating offensive rebounds. That should bridge the gap some.

I'm going on vacation , but this should be a nice distraction when I get back.

[Guest]

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I know there are several linear weights out there, but I can't find them right now

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Well what are you trying to regress all of your stats on? Wins? Your stat would make more sense to me if I knew what you were measuring, I was guessing that you were measuring a player's impact on positive possessions but I am still unclear. Is this your very own stat you are creating or did you stumble across this from someone else?

[mrhonline]

I made it up a couple of hours ago.

Yes, wins are the ultimate prize, but I was supposing that a player's value (since he can't win it all by himself) is best measured by contribution to:

Positive possessions

minus

Negative possessions

I really haven't been that impressed by PER, though. Seeing Josh Smith ranked higher than Marvin so far this year is further proof IMO.

I like Oliver's four factors (shooting efficiency, turnover ratio, rebounding rate, and free throws). I'm mostly talking out loud.

[leftwich]

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What a dumb response.

How can you blame Woody for Marvin not shooting the ball?

Wow.

Let's see. Josh shoots from anywhere on the court he wants at anytime he wants. ZaZa shoots all the time. There are times when Lue and AJ take shots we think they should not and you really believe Woody has intentionally put handcuffs on a #2 overall pick that is shooting over 50% from the field?????

Wow!!!!

And you call me dumb?

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You named 4 players that get significant playing time and claimed they shoot too much. You have a good case for three of them (AJ hardly ever shoots the ball unless he's wide open).

Add in JJ's shots which are deserved. The Hawks aren't left with many shots to go around, basic math there. Plus you have to factor in that MW isn't a one-on-one player, he's a jump shooter. He benefits from ball movement, and the Hawks don't have much of it a lot of the time.

Whether it's Woody's fault or not, it's not out of the question that it could be his fault.

And you, sasquatch, are terrible.

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What?

First of all, if you are going to follow me around so much, you could at least carry my bags.

Secondly, what exactly is your point?

What the heck does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Name the 4 players that I said "shoot too much"?

Which are the 4 players that get significant playing time? AJ has only played in like 3 games.

Are you saying Marvin does not get significant playing time?

Have you had your meds today?

Somebody call down to Georgia Regional and ask for a bedcheck.

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I am very curious how you read my reply and gathered that I might be trying to say that Marvin wasn't getting significant playing time, among other things.

[leftwich]

Here...I'll clarify for you. Your questions are followed by my answer.

Dumbass: Secondly, what exactly is your point?

that Marvin is a jump shooter, not someone who creates off the dribble. And that it is possible for Marvin's role- and consequently the number of shots he takes- to be defined by Woody, the head coach (you called someone "dumb" for blaming Woody on MW being passive).

Dumbass: Name the 4 players that I said "shoot too much"?

Josh Smith, Zaza, Lue, and AJ. My point wasn't that they shoot "too much," but that between the first three you named, JJ, and Chill there won't always be 20 shot attempts for Marvin in each game. That was the basic math.

Dumbass: Which are the 4 players that get significant playing time? AJ has only played in like 3 games.

Lue had to play hurt so AJ could get a breather. I'm not going to argue with you the meaning of the word "significant," but AJ is the only healthy PG at the moment. Hopefully Acie will change that soon.

Dumbass: Are you saying Marvin does not get significant playing time?

YES! That's exactly what I'm saying, re-read the post, it's all there.

Dumbass: Have you had your meds today?

My advice to you- "Pills are good!"