Why is a "scoring" pg label seen

[exodus]

as an insult? I dont see how scoring ability in a pg is a bad thing. Paul and Deron both score over 20 ppg.

The reason JT doesn't work well at the poing isn't because he is a "scoring" pg, it is because he doesn't handle the ball/pass well. He doesn't have good court vision. His problems at the point have nothing to do with the fact that he can score.

Marbury's problems at the point have nothing to do with the fact that he can score and everything to do with the fact that he is a head case.

I think the "scoring" pg or combo guard criticism that Acie got is affecting his game as much as his ankle. In college he was a take charge player. Right now he is so concerned about setting other guys up that he isn't playing his game. If he starts looking to score it will open up easier shots for other guys.

Over his last 9 games he has 36 assists and 10 turnovers. That is a 3.6/1 assist to turnover ratio for a rookie. We should all be able to see that he handles the ball very well and sees the floor well. He just needs to start looking to score.

This is a guy who outscored opposing teams during the last 5 minutes of the games during his senior season. So far that guy has been MIA.

[capstone21]

Its not the scoring that is the problem. Its the look for my shot first before getting others involved mentality.

If you watch Paul and Deron ... they can score but they look to get their teams involved. They make their teams better. They run an offense but they still score.

Players like JT, Monte Ellis and Barbosa are a score first type player. They can score a lot of points but don't really get their teams involved. They don't really run an offense.

Players like Kidd and Nash are complete pass first pgs.

Then there is Marbury who is just an enigma.

I don't think haveing a scoring pg is a problem as long as he is still a pg that really gets the team offense involved and keep the flow of the game going.

AJ is a pass first guy while Lue is a scorer first guy. I am still not sure what Law is. If he becomes a scorer/distributer then I think that will be great.

[exodus]

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Players like JT, Monte Ellis and Barbosa are a score first type player.

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I don't see it that way. Those guys don't look to score rather than run the offense. They just can't run the offense. They don't see the floor well, don't handle/pass well.

Even if they didn't shoot at all they would still have problems trying to play the point because they lack the skills.

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If you watch Paul and Deron ... they can score but they look to get their teams involved.

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They have the skills to do that. They can see the floor well, handle it well and pass well. The guys above don't.

When i watch Paul and Deron i don't see them as pass first players. I see them as guys who consistently make the right plays whether it be shooting, driving or passing.

[TheDude]

I really feel that Law looks to set up other players too much. I've seen him drive to the hole to score which is great (and they will eventually start to fall) but i've seen wide open j's that he's passed up to either pass or drive (when there is a clog of folks there).

he hasnt been hitting them regularly when he does shoot but that shouldnt stop him. if i were to talk to him, i'd tell him that i am satisfied with his point skills and ask him to step up more as a leader and scorer..

but i think we got a good one in him...the drives to the basket are phenomenal in their own right.

[AHF]

It is viewed as a negative because guys who get this label either refuse to run a pass-first offense or are incapable of it. They are viewed as short SGs rather than playmakers who drive their teams offenses.

True pass-first PGs are valued for their playmaking skills. "Scoring" pgs are seen as lacking in that department - a major negative for most PGs on most teams.

[Lascar78]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a PG scoring easily. The terms "scoring PG" or "shoot first" or whatever typically imply that the guy can't distribute the ball, create for others, or run an offense. And that's a problem.

Similarly, a lot of the best distributors do score a lot of points in the end, like Deron or Nash. I wouldn't refer to them as "scoring PG's" even though they might score as much as any PG out there. It's just the terminology.

Similarly I have no problem with Acie being a scorer or getting good drive-and-dishes. The only issue is can he also distribute? I think he will be adequate, but I doubt he'll ever be a true distributor.

[exodus]

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but I doubt he'll ever be a true distributor.

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So how would you define a true distributor?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Its not the scoring that is the problem. Its the look for my shot first before getting others involved mentality.

If you watch Paul and Deron ... they can score but they look to get their teams involved. They make their teams better. They run an offense but they still score.

Players like JT, Monte Ellis and Barbosa are a score first type player. They can score a lot of points but don't really get their teams involved. They don't really run an offense.

Players like Kidd and Nash are complete pass first pgs.

Then there is Marbury who is just an enigma.

I don't think haveing a scoring pg is a problem as long as he is still a pg that really gets the team offense involved and keep the flow of the game going.

AJ is a pass first guy while Lue is a scorer first guy. I am still not sure what Law is. If he becomes a scorer/distributer then I think that will be great.

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Barkley and Kenny Smith talked about this on Inside the NBA, in relation to the Wizards and how they're playing well without Arenas. They both believe that the Wiz are a better team with Gilbert, but that the ball movement without him was much better.

They talked about how Gil should always look to get Butler and Jamison going early in games, because Gil can get a shot anytime he wants to. And with him being "the closer" who can create his shot at the end, his goal should be to keep Caron and Antwan as involved in the game as possible.

And that's the reason I don't like Gilbert. He's not in a LeBron, Kobe, or even in a D-Wade or Joe Johnson situation. He plays wth two guys that can easily get you 20 - 25 points a night, yet, he'd rather take 30 shots and let them have 15. And on those nights when he starts out ice cold, he literally shoots them out of a game.

Gil should be a guy that scores 23 ppg, while damn near dropping 10 assists a game and shooting in the high-40% range. Instead, he'd rather try to score 40 a night and get 5 assists.

And because of that, he's a low-40s shooter that averages 30 ppg, only because he'll score 47 one night on 16 - 30 shooting . . and 17 the next night on 6 - 30 shooting.

If i were them, I'd immeadiately trade Gil to Jersey in a heartbeat.

[capstone21]

That was what I actually trying to say.

That type of pg is not really a scoring pg but more of pg that can score (Davis, Paul, Deron, Felton). In my mind its a big difference. Like you said they know the right decision to make for the team. It makes the team better as a whole. They run the offense and keep the flow going. They get the ball to the right player which in a lot of cases is themselves. However the key is that they run the offense and try to get others involved when it is right.

A scoring pg in my mind is like JT, Ellis, Lue, and Barbosa. They just look to score, they don't really look to get others involved as much. It would be better if they were 6'5 and play SG. It could be very well as you said that they are incapable of really making those decisions. However, they can handle the ball (except for Salim) and thus bring it up and start the offense. The problem is that they don't run the offense but instead try to get points in their boxscore.

A pass first pg is more like Miller, Kidd, Nash, Ford, Blake, Caldoron. They look for others first and themselves second. Nash may be closer to the pg who can score.

So a scoring pg by that definition wouldn't make our team better. A pg who can score is a different story. As long as he is someone who can run an offense, keep the flow and look to get others involved while still looking for his own shot...I don't think there is anything wrong with that. He makes his team better...that is the key.

[Lascar78]

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So how would you define a true distributor?

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A guy who knows what to do with the ball in his hands as you guys are saying. A guy who sees the whole floor and makes the right decision to set his teammates up. A guy who can run an offense efficiently and control the game.

It's not just the pass itself (which I think a guy like Acie is perfectly capable of doing very well). It's also the vision to know that if he moves to a certain spot or has a teammate move in a certain direction, a path will open up for a pass, or a mismatch will develop, or someone can get a layup or an open jumper. Most guys who play PG at the NBA level can make the right pass when it's in front of them. Only the distributors know how to create the opportunities for their teammates consistently, to make those passes become available. Of course making the right decision includes getting their own shots too. By holding the ball a lot, they are frequently in situations where they put the D in a position to choose between taking away their opportunity to score, or taking away the pass. When the D shuts down the pass, the PG has to be able to score.

[exodus]

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A guy who knows what to do with the ball in his hands as you guys are saying. A guy who sees the whole floor and makes the right decision to set his teammates up. A guy who can run an offense efficiently and control the game.

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I think Acie can do all that. The only real concern i have about him is his jumper. I guess time will tell.