thesheedera Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Quote: Either you believe he's great or you don't. But you can believe he isn't great while still believing that he's pretty good and will continue to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 18, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Pretty good and getting better = Potentially great. Right? If not, then how do you become great? Don't you have to be pretty good to start off?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Quote: Your problem with you TP is that you lack commitment... Either you believe he's great or you don't. There is no middle ground. Middle ground is for those Flip floppers who want to hedge their bets. Put both feet on the bandwagon TP!! If there is no middle ground at all then I say no Hawk players measure up because I can't apply the great tag to any of them. Do you think at all before you post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyMcClure Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Quote: Pretty good and getting better = Potentially great. Right? If not, then how do you become great? Don't you have to be pretty good to start off?? What is this measure of greatness you keep talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Quote: Pretty good and getting better = Potentially great. Right? If not, then how do you become great? Don't you have to be pretty good to start off?? Depends on your definition of "great". I typically think of great in the contect of all timers. But I also can say that Deron's "great" in comparison to other current PGs. He's not on the list of all timers, but he's near the top of the list of current players. I think only a few current players will definitely be considered all time greats - LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, KG, Nash. Wade, Howard, Amare - those guys are potentially all time greats. Currently they're great compared to the players in the NBA right now. So on a scale of terrible to great compared to current NBA players: Terrible - never fit for Marv Below average - Marvin as an early season rookie Average - Marvin at the end of 1st year and 1st half last season Above Average - Marvin 2nd half last season Good - Marvin's been consistently good all season Pretty Good - Marvin's been pretty good in several games this season Really Good - stretches of games at best Excellent - not yet Incredible - nope Great - ever? - not sure Yes, he has the potential to be great. He's not near there yet, and I don't know if he ever will be. But he's currently good and often looking really good. A player has to be consistently Excellent to be all star status. While I think he has potential to be better than just an All Star, I wouldn't wager too much money on it happning. If he reaches a consistently Excellent level and All Star status, I'll be beyond ecstatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 because Chillz only played 16 minutes and was 1-5 with 1 reb and 1 asst in the game he got hurt in. The only game we have lost with Chillz out is the DET game on the road yet we have beaten ORL, UT, CHA and MEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 18, 2007 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Yeah... you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusBoyIsBack Posted December 18, 2007 Report Share Posted December 18, 2007 Marvin hands down. You have no idea how angry I get when Woody benches Marvin when he's hitting shots. He is by far the better player with the better upside. Marvin has star potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: Marvin hands down. You have no idea how angry I get when Woody benches Marvin when he's hitting shots. He is by far the better player with the better upside. Marvin has star potential Careful, you may send some people into a seizure with that kind of public support for Marvin. Remember he's not a star, and he's very common...and he didn't carry us for 3 quarters on offense last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: because Chillz only played 16 minutes and was 1-5 with 1 reb and 1 asst in the game he got hurt in. The only game we have lost with Chillz out is the DET game on the road yet we have beaten ORL, UT, CHA and MEM. I think that is misleading... It just means the best players are basically playing the entire game. Which can work for a while, but it's a long season and all these minutes will catchup to the players sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: I think that is misleading... It just means the best players are basically playing the entire game . Which can work for a while, but it's a long season and all these minutes will catchup to the players sooner or later. Key sentence here is bolded. The best players are playing. I agree that it is a long season and every good team needs a sixth man they can count on for either scoring or defense. I really see Chilz as a Tayshaun Prince type as discussed in a earlier post. Chilz is a little less with the blocks but I think he is a better rebounder. Marvin is already a better overall player than Prince and Chilz which bolds well for his and our team's future. I know some posters here think Prince is a mini God; but that in my opinion is due to the fact he plays for a great team now and he also played on a great team in college. Prince is a solid player but his scoring and rebounding pretty much show he is way over rated when it comes to his almost superstar like reputation. Chilz is just as solid as Prince and Marvin is already a better scoring option than both of them. Scoring is what the SF position is all about. Especially on a team like ours that only has one real big time scorer. Marvins' scoring is only going to improve. His FG and FT% are way up there and no one can say that is a fluke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: Yeah... you're right. He is. Can you say "busted my bubble"? Chilz is good. Your boy Prince is good. Marvin is right now better night in and night out than both. You are just going to have to start dealing with it Diesel. Marvin is not and never will be the projected bust you had nightmares over three years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted December 19, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Prince is not a star and he is certainly not a mini-god. That said, he is significantly better than Childress. In particular, he is a better defender, passer and point forward than Childress. He is also able to create his own shot much better than Childress. There isn't a world of difference between the two but Prince is definitely on another level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: Marvin hands down. You have no idea how angry I get when Woody benches Marvin when he's hitting shots. He is by far the better player with the better upside. Marvin is more talented, but they do very different things, both of which are needed for a winning team. I think this is saying that Chill was a mistake to draft where we took him. He's a key piece but a couple notches below Marvin's talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 The problem is Chill is handcuffed with that shot and low release. And its not something he can fix although Mark Price wanted to try. Marvin is already better than Prince and is 7 years younger. I just don't think its that debatable. Buzzard, Diesel is going to have to learn to live with a much better Marvin. And the great news for the rest of us is that Marvin has a ways to go before we see his potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted December 19, 2007 Moderators Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: Marvin is already better than Prince and is 7 years younger. I just don't think its that debatable. I still think Prince has an edge right now but it is very close and Marvin's age makes him significantly more valuable in the long run (although they are really more like 6 years apart). If the Pistons were going to play a 7 game series for all the marbles they would want Prince rather than Marvin. If they could simply trade Prince longterm for Marvin, I think they would want Marvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: The problem is Chill is handcuffed with that shot and low release. And its not something he can fix although Mark Price wanted to try. Marvin is already better than Prince and is 7 years younger. I just don't think its that debatable. Buzzard, Diesel is going to have to learn to live with a much better Marvin. And the great news for the rest of us is that Marvin has a ways to go before we see his potential. If I needed to win games right now, I might pick Prince over Marvin because of his range and because I've seen him committed to defense consistently for so such a long time. Marvin's improved his defensive dedication and especially his technique, but Prince is currently a shut down defender and has better help D instincts. Long term, no question I'd rather have Marvin and I think he'll eclipse Prince as a plyer soon. But if I need a W tonight, I'd take Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: Quote: Marvin is already better than Prince and is 7 years younger. I just don't think its that debatable. I still think Prince has an edge right now but it is very close and Marvin's age makes him significantly more valuable in the long run (although they are really more like 6 years apart). If the Pistons were going to play a 7 game series for all the marbles they would want Prince rather than Marvin. If they could simply trade Prince longterm for Marvin, I think they would want Marvin. Nice post! You barely beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasPete Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Quote: Quote: The problem is Chill is handcuffed with that shot and low release. And its not something he can fix although Mark Price wanted to try. Marvin is already better than Prince and is 7 years younger. I just don't think its that debatable. Buzzard, Diesel is going to have to learn to live with a much better Marvin. And the great news for the rest of us is that Marvin has a ways to go before we see his potential. If I needed to win games right now, I might pick Prince over Marvin because of his range and because I've seen him committed to defense consistently for so such a long time. Marvin's improved his defensive dedication and especially his technique, but Prince is currently a shut down defender and has better help D instincts. Long term, no question I'd rather have Marvin and I think he'll eclipse Prince as a plyer soon. But if I need a W tonight, I'd take Prince. Remember, Prince has a more experienced supporting cast and that helps him a ton. Put Marvin in that mix and he becomes a better player...by hanging in that atmosphere he becomes better immediately. Marvin just has a lot more skills and he has a better body (although Prince's length is a huge asset). Marvin will use that athletic big body to go to the rack and draw contact (and finish) over the next year or two. That body will be a tremendous asset to Marvin and his shot is just better than TP's. I love Prince because he is the consumate team guy...much like Marvin. So, I see similarities in the two. But, I think most knowledgeable basketball fans can easily appreciate the talents of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Quote: Prince is not a star and he is certainly not a mini-god. That said, he is significantly better than Childress. In particular, he is a better defender, passer and point forward than Childress. He is also able to create his own shot much better than Childress. There isn't a world of difference between the two but Prince is definitely on another level. If Chilz got those minutes on that team; he would be close to Prince's equal in scoring. And there is no doubt in my mind that Chilz is a much better rebounder. Prince is a better on the ball defender than Chilz and that is about it. Marvin on the other hand would be a beast at the SF position with Detroit. At least three more points a game with Billups and Rip stretching the D and feeding him. If Acie can get close to Billups production one day; Marvin will get 20pts a game. No doubt in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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