Great Win!!

[AHF]

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Did Marvin pick up the scoring load at any time?

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Marvin led the team in scoring in the second quarter.

He led the team in scoring at halftime.

He led the team in scoring in the third quarter.

He led the team in scoring through three quarters.

He did this without picking up the scoring load.

Ummm..kay.

[oken]

when you improve as a player you can't improve across the board...in one year...

you don't have enough time in the summer to focus on 9 things...that kind of defeats the purpose of FOCUSING...i mean you have to practice and repeat it a lot don't you...you don't have time to practice 9 things over and over again when you are in class too...

summer sessions when you improve you usually work on one or two things intensely so that you can do it well enough to implement it in a real game...

marvin definitely has improved and one thing really is his confidence and assertiveness when he has the ball. He has room to grow and start shooting 3s...but still can't you believe that this kid can do it? just give him some time...

marvin is a rising star...

he's not there YET...but he's slowly but surely getting there...

still its nice to see his game night in and night out...wouldn't you say?

[AHF]

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We gave up:

SAR, Theo, Big Dog, JT, Walker, and Harrington (not to mention Paul and Deron) for the chance to get Marvin and give him 35 mpg.

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(1) How was giving up on the SAR, Theo, JT and Big Dog team a bad thing?

(2) What did we give up for Josh Smith if not SAR and Theo?

[thesheedera]

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We gave up:

SAR, Theo, Big Dog, JT, Walker, and Harrington (not to mention Paul and Deron) for the chance to get Marvin and give him 35 mpg.

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No we didn't. We gave up all that to have the TEAM we have today.

That includes 5 (or more?) lottery picks with mixed results and Josh Smith. Blowing up the roster got us all of that, not just Marvin.

The fact that we ended up with the #2 pick in Marvin's year was lottery luck - not something planned for.

Just like getting Al and Acie was a matter of lottery luck. We didn'd DO anything other than lose to get those players.

We've been losing, however, because we blew up the team and shed a bunch of veteran salary.

You can't put all those players on Marvin's shoulders, and not put any of the burden on Childress, Shelden, Al and Acie. That's absurd. They're ALL accountable.

[Diesel]

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The fact that we ended up with the #2 pick in Marvin's year was lottery luck - not something planned for.

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Are you saying that we didn't tank??

[TroyMcClure]

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The fact that we ended up with the #2 pick in Marvin's year was lottery luck - not something planned for.

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Are you saying that we didn't tank??

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Yes. I'm sure he is. That was the worst team I've ever seen. I didn't have the luxury of seeing the 72 sixers, but I would certainly give them a chance against us in a series!

Where is THAT computer simulation?

They may have tanked as an organization by their coaching choice, but the players tried. They were just collectively too stupid and selfish.

[Diesel]

Yeah, we didn't tank...

We just told Al Harrington he had the rest of the season off in late Feb.. after we traded Walker for GP (and then we waived GP).

We didn't tank...

When Old ass Googs started to become a scorer, Woody sat him in order to play Micheal Stewart...

But that wasn't tanking, that was just us being horrid.

[TroyMcClure]

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When Old ass Googs started to become a scorer, Woody sat him in order to play Micheal Stewart...

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I never saw him scoring. He was burnt and crispy well done, at that point. Besides, *news flash* Woody is dumb.

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We just told Al Harrington he had the rest of the season off in late Feb.. after we traded Walker for GP (and then we waived GP).

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GP refused to play for us... and many feel the same way about Harrington.

[Diesel]

GP never refused to play for us.

It was set in the original trade that GP would be waived so that he can go back to Boston.

[thesheedera]

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The fact that we ended up with the #2 pick in Marvin's year was lottery luck - not something planned for.

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Are you saying that we didn't tank??

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I don't think we intentionally tried to lose games as they were being played. I think we purged ourselves of contracts knowing we would most likely lose a lot of games with all the talent we discarded. We wanted to be able to sign new talent and build through the draft. We didn’t funnel the hope of our entire future into a single draft pick that would be determined by a system where any of 14 teams can get the highest slots.

The result of that whole process was:

Joe Johnson

Speedy Claxton

Zaza Pachulia and

Mario West

- as free agents, in order of how much we sacrificed to get them financially.

Lue

AJ and

Wright

- through trades we were able to make with more roster flexibility

and

Marvin Williams

Al Horford

Shelden Williams

Josh Childress

Acie Law

Josh Smith

Salim

Solomon

- in order of how high they were selected, which was determined with an exponentially higher variable of luck involved in it than going out and paying for a free agent or making a trade.

So the net result of all those roster moves is the entire team that we currently have. We don’t have a single player on the roster who was here before Billy Knight came on board. Joe was the single biggest result of our purging, and he’s proevn to me to be worthy of that particular investment. Marvin and Al are the second two biggest results of our purging, and I think they’re gonna help us become a contender. Considering that Marvin was from what was considered at the time a notably weaker draft class than Al’s, the expecvtations on the two of them should be pretty similar. Shelden and Childress would be next on the list, and while Shelden has done nothing of significance, Childress has been much more positive for us than negative. We could have gotten better players, but we still got a good one. The Speedy acquisition is probably next in line, and has proven to be a huge failure (though I admit I liked it at the time).

Smith, Zaza and Mario (those two to a lesser degree, and West only preliminarily speaking) are the only guys who have been huge windfalls considering what it “cost” to get them. The retunr on those investments has been off the charts. AJ might be in this category. Lue’s been solid for us, but I don’t know if he’s been better or worse than what Jon Barry would have been had we kept him.

So it wasn’t all for Marvin. He, Joe and Al are the biggest “fruits” of the tear down, and I see them all paying off in the long run. Would Deron/Paul have paid off faster and in larger sums? I absolutely believe they would have so the “opportunity cost” of taking Marvin over those guys was a mistake in hindsight. But that doesn’t mean he was a poor investment, and it doesn’t mean that all the other high picks, trades and acquisitions go out the windo when looking at how this team was torn down and built back up.

I’m much more concerned with how Shelden and Acie turn out for where they were picked, and with the Speedy transaction, than I am with the Marvin pick.

[exodus]

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Did Marvin pick up the scoring load at any time?

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Marvin led the team in scoring in the second quarter.

He led the team in scoring at halftime .

He led the team in scoring in the third quarter.

He led the team in scoring through three quarters.

He did this without picking up the scoring load?

Ummm..kay.

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[jerrywest]

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Did Marvin pick up the scoring load at any time?

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Marvin led the team in scoring in the second quarter.

He led the team in scoring at halftime.

He led the team in scoring in the third quarter.

He led the team in scoring through three quarters.

He did this without picking up the scoring load.

Ummm..kay.

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You can wake a man up who is asleep. You can't wake one up who is pretending to sleep. Let the boy protect his ego. Move on.

[Diesel]

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I think we purged ourselves of contracts knowing we would most likely lose a lot of games with all the talent we discarded.

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BS Alarm just went off.

Walker was traded in the last season of his contract.

First words out of BK's mouth after trading Walker...

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"This trade will give us the opportunity to continue to develop our nucleus of young players for the remainder of the year," said Hawks Executive Vice President/General Manager Billy Knight

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[AHF]

I think we tanked that season. Should have tanked in 2004.

[thesheedera]

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I think we purged ourselves of contracts knowing we would most likely lose a lot of games with all the talent we discarded.

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BS Alarm just went off.

Walker was traded in the last season of his contract.

First words out of BK's mouth after trading Walker...

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"This trade will give us the opportunity to continue to develop our nucleus of young players for the remainder of the year," said Hawks Executive Vice President/General Manager Billy Knight

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So after all I went through you only point to trading Antoine Walker? Is this all about Antoine Walker vs. Marvin for you? Would you rather have Antoine Walker than Marvin Williams going forward?

AW also happens to be one of the most polarizing players in recent NBA history. I liked him personally, but I wasn't sorry to see him go. I didn't think we could build a franchise with him as the cornerstone, did you?

[Diesel]

Yeah Sheedera.

This is all about Antoine Walker.

Whatever you say man.

[TexasPete]

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Quote:

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I think we purged ourselves of contracts knowing we would most likely lose a lot of games with all the talent we discarded.

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BS Alarm just went off.

Walker was traded in the last season of his contract.

First words out of BK's mouth after trading Walker...

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"This trade will give us the opportunity to continue to develop our nucleus of young players for the remainder of the year," said Hawks Executive Vice President/General Manager Billy Knight

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So after all I went through you only point to trading Antoine Walker? Is this all about Antoine Walker vs. Marvin for you? Would you rather have Antoine Walker than Marvin Williams going forward?

AW also happens to be one of the most polarizing players in recent NBA history. I liked him personally, but I wasn't sorry to see him go. I didn't think we could build a franchise with him as the cornerstone, did you?

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Actually, I do believe that he would prefer AW to Marvin then and now. I think he would prefer anyone to Marvin, alive or dead it makes no difference. I have followed the Hawks for 3 decades and have never run across any supposed "fan" who rides, derides, and trashes the way he does Marvin. It's a little deranged and if I didn't know better I would say that it was personal. It's almost like his personal credibility on this basketball site is at stake. Or, at least he thinks it is.

[thesheedera]

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Yeah Sheedera.

This is all about Antoine Walker.

Whatever you say man.

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That's how you responded to my post.

[Diesel]

Dude, I prefer Marvin over everybody in the league.

Hell, it could be Lebron James for Marvin and I would take Marvin. Who needs a guy who is going to take away shots from JJ. NO... give me Mr. Untouchable Marvin Williams... He's the greatest!

[AtLaS]

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Being a contributor and carrying a team are two different things.

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I would just like to know, how many 21 year olds are currently "Carrying their teams"???