Sekou on Smith for Gasol rumors

[exodus]

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“And the award for the zaniest trade idea floated this year is …” Listen, anyone suggesting a trade package that includes swapping Josh Smith for Pau Gasol is clearly not well versed in the science of boneheadedness.

One guy is heading to the prime of his career, which has no ceiling, with a salary figure yet to be determined. The other guy is heading down the other side of that mountain, banging his head on his ceiling the entire way down, with a salary figure ($13.7 mil for you monopoly players out there) that rises in the three seasons following this one.

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[Diesel]

While this trade might not be a go..

I disagree that Gasol is on the downside of his career. I just believe that right now, he's not fitting with his team philosophy.

[capstone21]

I agree with you. He is in the wrong system and that is why he is having an off year. Even with an off year he is still playing really. Especially lately.

Gasol is the type of player we need. A post player that commands attention...double teams. Opening up the floor for JJ and company.

Smith wants the same kind of money as Gasol and will probably get that offer from some stupid team out there.

[vdunkndunk]

Clearly I'm not well versed in the science of boneheadedness, as Sekou put it, because I think trading Smoove for Gasol is a great idea. Gasol is only 27 or 28 years old, he's a true 7-foot all-star, and his career averages are about 19 ppg, 9 rpg, and 2 bpg, with a much higher shooting percentage that Smoove (over .500).

Basically, there's no guarantee Smoove will ever become a better scorer or rebounder than Gasol has been over the course of his entire career. Really the only thing that Smoove is clearly better at is blocking shots. Athletic talent isn't everything, and right now Smoove still can't dribble, demand a double team, or even finish around the rim as well as he should unless he's dunking the ball. His post game is developing, but it's still light years behind Gasol's.

If you think about it, Gasol has led the Grizzlies to the playoffs in the West several times without much help - he's never played with a player as good as Joe in his entire career, plus we'd still have Marvin, Horford, Chills, and Law to round out the team. I just don't see how this is such a bad idea. If we keep Horford and Smoove as our bigmen forever, we may never have a real offensive post presence on this team and we'll always be undersized. Plus I think it's only a matter of time before Smoove starts to have injury problems and lose some of his athleticism, and he really doesn't have a lot of basketball skill to fall back on. I'm sorry - as much as I like Smoove, I'd trade him for Gasol in a heartbeat.

[capstone21]

I could not have said it better.

Its not a call to get rid of Smith. Its a call to get someone of Gasol's talent and to get someone with Gasol's type of game. To get someone like Gasol...it will cost us some talent.

On the other side of the coin. Smith is the right fit in their system with their team. I think the trade will make both teams better.

[exodus]

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Athletic talent isn't everything, and right now Smoove still can't dribble, demand a double team, or even finish around the rim

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So how is Smith scoring inside more than Gasol?

[vdunkndunk]

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Athletic talent isn't everything, and right now Smoove still can't dribble, demand a double team, or even finish around the rim

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So how is Smith scoring inside more than Gasol?

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Any way you slice it, Smith is shooting .430 from the field while playing PF and without seeing consistent double teams. A big reason for that is bad shot selection, too many jumpers, no real go-to post moves, and poor touch around the basket unless he's dunking. Gasol, on the other hand, has averaged 19 ppg and over .500 from the field for his entire career while facing constant double teams.

I assume you've looked it up and found that Smoove gets more points in the paint than Gasol, but obviously that hasn't helped him become a more efficient scorer than Gasol - and most of Smoove's points in the paint probably come off of fast breaks or drives to the basket. Tony Parker led the league in points in the paint a few years ago, for instance, but that doesn't make him a better post scorer than Gasol.

[Diesel]

I'll say this. I think Gasol would make a helluva difference offensively because he would free up Joe to be dominant... He also gives us a threat inside. BUT We would miss Smoove's defense. If we could get Memphis interested in Marvin, I would do that deal instead. Marvin's a better shooter than Smoove. I just don't want to give up Smoove's transition defense. We get Gasol, Move Smoove to Sf and Horford to PF and we'd win the east!!!

The same is more true for JO, but I don't think we can afford to get JO... He's just too expensive...

[exodus]

Gasol is shooting 5% better than Smith on the season and the bulk of that difference is all the ill advised jumpers Smith took in November.

Since then he has been shooting the jumpers with far less frequency, taking it to the basket more often and finishing better.

Last night he was matched up against Lebron at the top of the key and beat him off the dribble for a layup. It would be tough for him to do that if he couldn't dribble or finish.

[exodus]

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I just believe that right now, he's not fitting with his team philosophy.

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Why is that? What is their team philosophy?

[macdaddy]

Smoove was straight out of high school mid first round pick and now at 22? is a legitimate nba starter, leads the league in blocks, is an excellent defensive player and is learning to score, steal, assist. Even if this was his ceiling it is pretty good and I don't think anyone thinks its his ceiling.

Suggesting that he's destined for injury problems is strange seeing as he has missed very little time and has returned from injuries and hernia surgery in about half the time expected.

[Diesel]

Memphis plays a pseudo uptempo style made to be similar to the style that Phoenix plays. Gasol gets a lot of shots at the high post in this offense. Not bad because he can hit them, but previously, he benefited from being the guy that the offense was run through similar to Duncan in SA.

I think if we got Gasol, our style would change to being one where we played inside out with Gasol and Joe. Or we could play Horf Low post with Gasol being high post and JJ being our three point shooter.

Right now, JJ is just doing everything offensively. If we limit what he does, I think he becomes more effective.

[vdunkndunk]

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Gasol is shooting 5% better than Smith on the season and the bulk of that difference is all the ill advised jumpers Smith took in November.

Since then he has been shooting the jumpers with far less frequency, taking it to the basket more often and finishing better.

Last night he was matched up against Lebron at the top of the key and beat him off the dribble for a layup. It would be tough for him to do that if he couldn't dribble or finish.

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I didn't say Smith has never made a layup in his life. I just believe he doesn't finish drives or post-moves as well as he should considering his height and athleticism, and I believe it's mostly because he doesn't have a lot of touch around the basket (or from the perimeter for that matter). Have you really never noticed how often Smoove misses layups that he really ought to make?

[coachx]

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Athletic talent isn't everything, and right now Smoove still can't dribble, demand a double team, or even finish around the rim

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So how is Smith scoring inside more than Gasol?

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Good point. Smith was finishing in the paint very well last night.

They are totally differen players. One is the traditional PF/C you can run stuctured half court offensive system with. The other is an athletic player who makes plays no one else can make. (Man up Lebron defensively, block a Dwayne Wade winning layup attempt at the buzzer.)

If both players were 25 I would do the deal. With Smith being only 22 (much more upside then 25)and Gasol 27 (upside is gone)I would never do it unless the Grizz were the ones including a 1st round pick. Smith has shown tremendous growth in the last 2 months with his decision making and inside play. Just growth on the knowledge of being a profesional basketball player. Jack and I were discusing that at the game last night. (Joshes recent mental matuity.)

Gasol is going to be making about $5 mill per season more then Smith for the next 3 years. I'd rather keep that $5 mill to spend with helping resign Marvin. That extra $5 mill could also be the diffrence in resigning Chills or not.

I like Gasol but not for Smith.

[exodus]

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I didn't say Smith has never made a layup in his life.

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I never claimed you did.

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Have you really never noticed how often Smoove misses layups that he really ought to make?

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Have you not noticed that hasn't been happening as much lately?

Over the last 10 games Smith is shooting 50.8%.

[vdunkndunk]

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Suggesting that he's destined for injury problems is strange seeing as he has missed very little time and has returned from injuries and hernia surgery in about half the time expected.

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A lot of big-time leapers end up with injury problems, like Amare or Carter or T-Mac or Wade, because of the wear and tear involved in all that leaping. Not all of them get hurt, but a lot of them do. Even Kobe and Michael Jordan had to learn to rely on other aspects of their game later in their careers, even though they never really got hurt that bad.

Josh Smith has been playing starter's minutes in the NBA since he was 18, and he's a big guy with a 40-inch vertical who's always dunking or blocking shots. It's not guaranteed that he'll get injured, and he's been pretty healthy so far, but he's been putting a lot of miles on his body from a young age, a lot of pounding, and any way athleticism declines with age no matter what. It's just that I'm not sure Josh Smith has a lot of skill or size to fall back on if his athleticism declines or if he gets hurt. He should have a lot of good years ahead of him, but I think he's more susceptible to injury affecting his game than, say, Steve Smith was.

[vdunkndunk]

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I didn't say Smith has never made a layup in his life.

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I never claimed you did.

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No, but in my opinion you offered one layup as evidence that Smoove doesn't have trouble finishing around the basket. I know he's capable of making layups, even very impressive and difficult layups at times, but he's also capable of missing layups that most NBA players wouldn't miss, despite his superior athleticism and size. His layup against Lebron last night doesn't really change my general opinion of his ability to finish around the basket when he's not dunking.

This is all I'm saying: I agree that Smith is a great prospect, but I'm not sure we should give him a huge contract if it comes down to it, especially because there's risk involved in waiting for a player to develop skills like ballhandling, jumpshooting, and touch around the basket when that player is now 22 years-old and has already played heavy minutes in the NBA for years, especially when we have a number 2 overall pick and a number 3 overall pick playing his position and they're not up for extensions yet. So why not trade an attractive prospect like Josh Smith for a big time player at a position of need?

[exodus]

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So why not trade an attractive prospect like Josh Smith for a big time player at a position of need?

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Because the "big time" player plays the same position, isn't much better than Smith and won't get better. Smith is improving rapidly. Remember this is only his second season at the 4.

They are averaging the same number of pts and Smith is a much better defender.

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but in my opinion you offered one layup as evidence

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You want more evidence? how about the two 30+ pt games against the Bucks and NJ. Where do you think those points came from?

[mrhonline]

Sekou is less knowledgeable on the CBA than 75% of the people here.

What he didn't take into consideration is Smith's upcoming salary. The fact he could be making $10M+ next season makes this trade a little more reasonable.

That said, if Smith continues to score inside as efficiently as he has recently, there's no reason to move him. You move Childress first.

[exodus]

I haven't watched Gasol much the past couple of years but the people who have don't seem to impressed with him.

I know northcyde watches him quite a bit and doesn't seem the least bit interested in trading for him. MemphisX obviously sees him a lot and said flat out it would be stupid for the Hawks to trade Smith for Gasol.