Why does everybody want to trade Childress?

[Plainview1981]

The guy averages 12PPG 5RPG and shoots 60% as the sixth man. Do people not realize that the Hawks weak bench would average about 8PPG if he was traded? I think Marvin Williams should be considered if he doesn't improve his rebounding. As good as his mid range shot is, right now he can't help the team if he's not scoring.

Unless the Hawks get a Really good player, I would say keeping Childress is a must. If Shelden, Salim, ZaZa and the others didn't suck so bad, maybe the Hawks would have more options.

I just can't understand why people want to trade the only player to be productive night in and not out for this team.

[Atlantaholic]

The only way I trade Childress or Marvin is if we get a stellar PG back... We should look to lock both of them up for the long run. (along with Smith)

[Nicholasp27]

at least someone agrees with me

we need to be looking more along the lines of a trade of expiring+zaza for a decent pg to pair up with acie (blake, jack, duhon, maybe dre miller if expirings are all they care about, etc)

[Diesel]

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The guy averages 12PPG 5RPG and shoots 60% as the sixth man. Do people not realize that the Hawks weak bench would average about 8PPG if he was traded? I think Marvin Williams should be considered if he doesn't improve his rebounding. As good as his mid range shot is, right now he can't help the team if he's not scoring.

Unless the Hawks get a Really good player, I would say keeping Childress is a must. If Shelden, Salim, ZaZa and the others didn't suck so bad, maybe the Hawks would have more options.

I just can't understand why people want to trade the only player to be productive night in and not out for this team.

People have become caught up into a welfare mentality... thinking that because it's time to reup on Chillz and Smoove that one of them must be traded for picks or loss in triage so that we can hopefully keep ...................... three or four years down the road.

What they are really saying is that they have no expectation of winning and they don't want to try.... they would rather just keep getting players and trading players and staying young so that they can have an excuse why we can't win.

Fortunately, I don't think BK thinks that way.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Don't worry, Marvin will be the 1st to go if it was down to him or Chill. You can replace the jump shooter. The all around game that Chill brings off the bench is very rare to find.

The guy plays tough D.

He can shoot any where on the court at a high percentage.

Knows how to get to the basket.

Top ten in the league at shooting FTs.

Passes pretty good.

AND HAS ONE OF THE BEST UGLY SHOTS OF THE GAME.

[exodus]

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He can shoot any where on the court at a high percentage.

In an empty gym maybe.

If Mark Cuban was the owner then we wouldn't have to worry about trading Childress. But we don't have that luxury.

This team has needs that have to be filled in order for the Hawks to become contenders. The Hawks need more size and 3 pt shooting. The Hawks are the worst 3pt shooting team in the league and that will only get worse next year when Lue, AJ and Salim leave.

There is no way to resign both Smith and Childress and still aquire a big and a 3 pt shooter without breaking the bank. Let's face it the ASG doesn't have deep pockets.

I am not necesarily opposed to trading Marvin but i just don't see the logic of keeping both Childress and Marvin.

[Charman212002]

Funny that you mention Andre Miller.

Hollinger mentioned Atlanta as an ideal location if indeed 'Dre is on the trading block.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080116

(somewhere towards the bottom)

Something to the effect of TLue, AJ, and Lo for Andre.

I realize that those expiring deals free up Philly to chase free agents this summer, (ie. JSmoove) but can anyone give a reason why we would NOT do this deal?

We're getting the pass-first point guard we all wanted for soooooooooooo long. Additionally I think Andre would hands down be a better mentor for Acie than Lue or AJ ever could.

Thoughts?

[swolehawk2]

I don't think midrange jumpshooters are easy to replace. Not one that is as consistent as Marvin.

[Diesel]

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Funny that you mention Andre Miller.

Hollinger mentioned Atlanta as an ideal location if indeed 'Dre is on the trading block.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080116

(somewhere towards the bottom)

Something to the effect of TLue, AJ, and Lo for Andre.

I realize that those expiring deals free up Philly to chase free agents this summer, (ie. JSmoove) but can anyone give a reason why we would NOT do this deal?

We're getting the pass-first point guard we all wanted for soooooooooooo long. Additionally I think Andre would hands down be a better mentor for Acie than Lue or AJ ever could.

Thoughts?

It's interesting, I know that Andre would make us a better team and that that trade is a beauty for us... BUT.. I'm starting to wonder if it's neccessary to trade AJ? How does AJ compare to Miller over the last 10??

Last 10:

Miller 16.6 ppg, 6.6 apg, 1.4 spg, 3.3 rpg, 45.5% shooting, 1 3pter made. 36 mins

AJ: 7.5 ppg, 5.1 apg, 0.9 spg, 2.5 rpg, 42.2% shooting, 9 3pters made. 29 mins.

I guess Miller trumps AJ...

However, we would have to find a three point shooter somewhere.

But maybe Miller could get everybody involved Better.

It's an interesting trade because Philly basically steals all of our capspace but makes us a much better team. In the meanwhile, we risk having Philly turn around and go after Smoove.

Still... it's a good PG for nothing but capspace...

[thesheedera]

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I am not necesarily opposed to trading Marvin but i just don't see the logic of keeping both Childress and Marvin.

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I'm with ex on this. Lots of talk in this thread about Marvin being one dimensional, but I think that's GREATLY exagerated. Marvin's defense is looking very good this year and (when it's not an iso situatuion for JJ or Smith) he does everything to keep our offense flowing that Childress does, except that he doesn't play the baselines often. That's probably because Woodson wants him near his money spot 20 feet from the rim on the wings to knock doen jumpers when his man gives him space.

Pardon my digression...it's not that people want to trade Childress, it's that SF is our deepest position and gives us the most opportunity to fill in other holes with a trade.

Among our SFs:

- Smith is untouchable for most people and plays most of our PF minutes

- Johnson is completely untouchable and plays most of our SG minutes

So it's Marvin and Childress. Some prefer Childress, but a few more seem to prefer Marvin. Marvin's game seems to have the higher ceiling, he's younger and his contract comes up later.

For me it's only a matter of who you get in return. I'd personally rather keep Marvin but if we can get something great in return than I'd be happy to send him off and would follow his career on whatever team he lands on.

[Plainview1981]

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This team has needs that have to be filled in order for the Hawks to become contenders. The Hawks need more size and 3 pt shooting. The Hawks are the worst 3pt shooting team in the league and that will only get worse next year when Lue, AJ and Salim leave.

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You also need production off the bench. There are 82 games. The thing that will help is if Al can become a 15-17PPG player. That makes trading Marvin Williams more easy. Plus, you need atleast one guy off the bench that can start at two positions because we know how the injury bug is nowdays.

[Plainview1981]

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So it's Marvin and Childress. Some prefer Childress, but a few more seem to prefer Marvin. Marvin's game seems to have the higher ceiling, he's younger and his contract comes up later.

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One problem with Marvin is that he seems to lack toughness. Also, just because he is only 21 doesn't mean he will improve alot more. All fans say this about the young players on their team because everybody assumes the player will continue to take big strides and get better.

I just don't see it in Marvin. I don't see a guy that likes to battle for boards night in and night out. Other than mid range shooting, I don't see much in his offensive game.

[exodus]

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You also need production off the bench. There are 82 games.

There is also a salary cap.

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The thing that will help is if Al can become a 15-17PPG player.

He has shown no sign of being that type of scorer. he is very mechanical with the ball and very turnover prone.

[Plainview1981]

he is very mechanical"

I've thought if Marvin the same way.

"There is also a salary cap."

If the team is going to win, the ownership will have to spend alittle extra cash. The Hawks don't have superstar players, so they will need balance and depth.

[exodus]

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If the team is going to win, the ownership will have to spend alittle extra cash.

It is always easy to spend someone else's money.

Remeber that Belkin owns 30% of the franchise but is paying none of the expenses. All of the expenses fall on the ASG. Since they are cash strapped they are likely to prioritize when spending.

The big holes on this team are size inside and 3 pt shooting. Childress addresses neither.

[Hatertots]

I'm not opposed to trading J Chill as part of the right deal. So many trades I see proposed (mainly over at realgm) would send Childress off and only fetch back mediocre talent in return.

One of the problems with the current roster is we have too many good players (a nice problem to have) but unfortunately there's no great players. Joe, the Joshes, Marvin, Horford; that's five guys right there and there's no way you can pay all of them. Every championship caliber team has three guys that pretty much do it all.

Rather than send off a valuable piece for not much in return, I'd rather see the Hawks package some of their young players for a true superstar. Easier said than done? Of course. But it's definitely a possibility, especially when you have the kind of chips the Hawks have.

[Plainview1981]

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It is always easy to spend someone else's money.

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Well, if they didn't want to spend the money they shouldn't have bought the team. It's not like they've done anything since owning the team other than get JJ and make bad choices .

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Remeber that Belkin owns 30% of the franchise but is paying none of the expenses. All of the expenses fall on the ASG. Since they are cash strapped they are likely to prioritize when spending.

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They shouldn't have went into business with him anyway.

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The big holes on this team are size inside and 3 pt shooting. Childress addresses neither.

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Well if Marvin had an outside shot we wouldn't have this problem nowhere near as bad. But the lack of bench production is a big hole because the starters simply can't afford an offgame or the Hawks will likely lose.

There is pressure for the starting lineup to get it done every single night and that just can't happen.

[exodus]

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They shouldn't have went into business with him anyway.

That is neither here or there. I don't think they planned on this long legal fight with Belkin but they are in it now.

No point in speculating what the Hawks could do under stable ownership because we don't have it and won't for a long time.

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Well if Marvin had an outside shot we wouldn't have this problem nowhere near as bad.

I agree he needs to extend his range.

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There is pressure for the starting lineup to get it done every single night and that just can't happen.

On the positive side it doesn't have to be the same guys all the time. Smith and JJ are capable of very big nights. Marvin has had plenty of 20 pt games.

One big problem with the bench has been injuries. Salim has been hurt most of the year. Lue has been out a lot. Zaza was hurt and came back as a complete garbage can.

And of course there is Craig.

[Plainview1981]

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That is neither here or there. I don't think they planned on this long legal fight with Belkin but they are in it now.

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Not that I'm a businessman.... But it seems wise to know somethings about the guys you go into business with.

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On the positive side it doesn't have to be the same guys all the time. Smith and JJ are capable of very big nights. Marvin has had plenty of 20 pt games.

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These having to play 40MPG will catch up with them.

[cowa]

Ex, I agree with what you're saying, but want to add on even further. This team needs five things in my opinion:

1) Better PG play

2) An outside shooter

3) A defensive big

4) A lockdown defender at the 2/3

5) A second legitimate scoring option to Joe

Some of these things can be combined, so I'm not saying we need 5 new players. I've got my own ideas of what trades/FA pick-ups could be made to get us there while staying fiscally responsible (as this is a prerequisite of ASG, since we are not living in a vacuum like many on this site seem to think).

I think everyone agrees we need better PG play to become an elite team. Maybe Law will become that, but the jury is out on that. Everyone also agrees we need an outside shooter. I just think this slot needs to be a fairly inexpensive player, nothing above $4M, as they really won't be a starter. We've been saying forever it seems that we need a defensive big to clog the middle to help stop the lay-up drills. That position also should be relatively cheap.

The two things I'm adding are a lock-down defender and 2nd scoring option. I am tired of seeing the superstars light up the Hawks in the 4th quarter (Lebron, Wade, etc.) We can't afford to put Joe on them, since if Joe fouls out, your can hear the fat lady singing. And I think everyone realizes how our offense stagnates when Joe is out of the game. There needs to be another scoring option that the other team actually game plans around, not just a guy who happens to be hot on a given night.

With all that being said, we have one big obstacle in our way: the salary cap / financial situation of ASG.

First, let's look at our cap position going into 2008/09. We have $39.9M tied up in contracts for next year excluding the Joshes. Smith will take up a cap hold of $6.7M, while Chills will take up a cap hold of $10.9M, which leaves us at $57.5M (I think the total of these two salaries is about what they will actually make, just that Smith will make the higher number and Chills will make the lower one). That still doesn't replace Salim, AJ, Lue, Wright or West. Combined, they make $10.8M in 07. You can't just fill these slots with guys making less than $1M, so you really need to hold at least $7.5M for these 5 slots. That puts us at $65.0M for next year. The luxury tax for this year is $67.865M, and will go up to about $70M next year.

By trading away all our expirings for a player, you're adding that much more onto the payroll. Personally, I don't think there is any way the ASG goes over $60M next year, which will still be higher than the salary cap, which should be around $58.5M. My point here is that while expirings are a nice idea to trade, they come with financial consequences that no one seems to want to admit to.

I'll propose my trades/FA pickups in a separate post!