Why does everybody want to trade Childress?

[exodus]

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1) Better PG play

2) An outside shooter

3) A defensive big

4) A lockdown defender at the 2/3

5) A second legitimate scoring option to Joe

To me it is

1)defensive big. Not only is it the biggest need but it is the hardest to fill.

2) outside shooter. Not that hard to find.

As far as the pg goes we only have one pg under contract for next year who will actually play and that is Acie. We are pretty much at the mercy of his development. If he doesn't work out the hawks are screwed.

Second scoring option? What you see is what you get. We aren't going to bring another scorer in here. I would bet heavily on that. it is up to the young guys (Smith, Marvin, Horford and Acie) to improve their scoring. Smith is averaging 18 and Marvin is averaging 16 so they are on their way. We definitely need more points from Horford and especially Acie.

Lockdown perimeter defender. I think that Mario can fill that role fine. He is very intense and athletic, always plays hard, and obviously wants to play for the Hawks. Plus he will be a cheap resign.

[cowa]

My rant continues...

With the financial situation that I previously laid out, here are some moves (HIGHLY controversial, I know ahead of time!) and the timing that they would have to happen in to work.

1) Before the trade deadline, trade Lue for Rasual Butler. New Orleans is looking for a PG, we need a 3 pt specialist. Unfortunately, he isn't a great overall shooter, but he is stil relatively cheap. He makes about the same as Lue, and his salary doesn't go up much for next year.

2) Here comes the controversy! Before the trade deadline, trade Chills and Zaza for Ron Artest. I know all about the baggage Artest carries, but he is the best lock-down defender (maybe Bowen is better, but it's close) who also can be the experienced 2nd scoring option that his team needs. For those of you who don't know, Artest, I don't feel, is the same craxy man he has been in the past. Everything I have read has commented on his daughter's illness, and how he has turned the corner from a maturity standpoint due to his personal situation. He has a player option for next year, so we would need to talk with him before the trade and get him to accept an extension (around $10M/season).

3) To replace Zaza, pick up either Jackie Butler or DJ Mbenga. Both would have a minimal role on the team, but it basically would be a try-out for next season. Diesel brought up Lang on a previous post, which could work as well.

4) Lastly, once the season is over,but before you sign Josh Smith, do a S&T with Toronto. Calderon for Marvin. Calderon will probably cost about $8.0M, which is more that Toronto will want to pay their back-up (hopefully). Though I love Marvin, Calderon could take us to new levels. And because we would be under the cap, we would just give Toronto a trade exception for the difference in salaries.

5) Sign Theo Raliff to a 1 year deal. He lives in Atlanta, and could mentor all the kids (Horford, Solomon, Sheldon). Sign him for no more than $1.5M.

6) Resign West and Salim.

7) Let Wright and AJ's contracts expire.

That leaves the team looking like this:

C - Horford, Solomon, Ratliff

PF - Smith, Sheldon, Butler/Mbenga/Lang

SF - Artest, R. Butler, West (resign)

SG - Johnson, Salim (resign), 2nd round pick

PG - Calderon, Law, Speedy (unfortunately, can't move him)

All these moves would leave the hawks in the $67M area, which is where I think we are after signing our RFA's next year anyway. I just think this team would be set up better while JJ is in his prime to move ahead in the playoffs.

Will this all happen? Of course not, no way we'll trade for Artest (though the other moves are somewhat realistic). Should it happen? My opinion is obviously yes.

[hawkman]

Just say no to trading Childress. Being a fan favoritee has to count for something. The Hawks have had no identity for years. To be honest, I see Childress being what this team is all about. His unselfishness and versatility is underrated if you ask me. He's controlled when he needs to be and downright explosive when he needs to be. You never have to worry if he's mentally into the game. You never have to worry about him taking ill-advised shots. You never have to worry about him getting into it with teammates or coach. To be honest, I highly doubt that the guy wants to leave to be a starter anyway. He just doesn't seem like that kind of guy. The guy IS our bench and he already plays starter's minutes. I hope we just keep these guys together as it seems like we have a good thing going right now. I truly believe that we can afford to wait on Law to develop rather than trade for a quick fix. Hopefully the guys handling the money see things the same way.

[DJlaysitup]

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...I truly believe that we can afford to wait on Law to develop rather than trade for a quick fix. Hopefully the guys handling the money see things the same way.

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A bit OT from the original post, but I am willing to wait on players developing - but not at the PG spot so much. It's too important to the team, especially if you are banking on the guy being your starter. Simply betting the future of a pretty good group of guys right now on the quick development of your #11 draftpick into a floor general is just too risky for my taste. I would like to see us get another PG and then "hope" Acie becomes what we want him to become, rather than betting the farm on it and risking dissappointment. In reality, that would be more fair to Acie too. Most players develop faster when they have to compete for their starting spot.

Also, we have to be a little realistic here. We took the most "NBA ready" big available at #5 two years ago only to replace him the following year and relegate him to the pine. Some draft picks work out great - some take longer to develop - and some never really do. It's just reality.

As the old saying goes "plan for the worst and hope for the best".

[AHF]

Since it seems somewhat on topic, I thought I'd mention that ESPN's Thorpe opined in his chat today that the Hawks would need to trade Childress and talked about potential trade options. He believes that the Hawks will not be able to afford both Joshes and that Smith is a borderline All-Star. Accordingly, he argued that with JC's talent that the Hawks need to deal him to avoid losing him empty-handed to another team in the offseason. Take it for what it is worth.

[thesheedera]

He's not Josh Smith and he's not Joe Johnson, but Marvin does contribute in more ways than just jump shooting.

He's ahead of Childress (everyone's "do everything player") in most per 48 categories:

21.6 to 19.4 in points

2.6 to 2.1 in assists

1.59 to 1.47 in steals

.65 to .38 in blocks

While Childress is ahead:

8.3 to 7.7 in rebounds

3.0 to 4.4 in fouls and

2.1 to 2.2 in turnovers

No wonder that the better jumpshooter is rebounding less than the guy who plays the baselines, and those turnover numbers are a wash. The fouls are an issue for Marvin at times, but he's also the one that guards post players far more often - because he CAN.

You can talk all day about the intangibles that Childress brings that you don't think Marvin brings, but I think a lot of that is based on previous reputation and performance, and not on what's been happening this season.

I strongly prefer Marvin as a man to man defender and all around offensive player.

I strongly prefer Childress as a rebounder.

I love them both - do we need them both? In my opinion, not if one of them can get us a legit 1 or 5 man.

If we can get that 1 or 5 and keep them both - gravy.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I wonder if people would trade Josh Howard for Marvin?

[Plainview1981]

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He's not Josh Smith and he's not Joe Johnson, but Marvin does contribute in more ways than just jump shooting.

He's ahead of Childress (everyone's "do everything player") in most per 48 categories:

21.6 to 19.4 in points

2.6 to 2.1 in assists

1.59 to 1.47 in steals

.65 to .38 in blocks

While Childress is ahead:

8.3 to 7.7 in rebounds

3.0 to 4.4 in fouls and

2.1 to 2.2 in turnovers

No wonder that the better jumpshooter is rebounding less than the guy who plays the baselines, and those turnover numbers are a wash. The fouls are an issue for Marvin at times, but he's also the one that guards post players far more often - because he CAN.

You can talk all day about the intangibles that Childress brings that you don't think Marvin brings, but I think a lot of that is based on previous reputation and performance, and not on what's been happening this season.

I strongly prefer Marvin as a man to man defender and all around offensive player.

I strongly prefer Childress as a rebounder.

I love them both - do we need them both? In my opinion, not if one of them can get us a legit 1 or 5 man.

If we can get that 1 or 5 and keep them both - gravy.

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You can't put a stat on toughness and Marvin doesn't have it. Yes, of course Marvin is a jumpshooter. He doesn't have the toughness to play the post or battle inside.

[DrReality]

It's not that I want to trade Chill, but you have to give up talent to get it. As has been stated . . . . our surplus of forwards makes that position one that is likely to be traded. And all the talk of trading Marvin is delusional. Unless it's a blockbuster it ain't gonna happen.

We have enough guys who can play multiple positions and could trade Chill for the positions that are killing us every night: PG and C.

[Diesel]

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And all the talk of trading Marvin is delusional. Unless it's a blockbuster it ain't gonna happen.

You're going to have to qualify this. Why is it delusional? What exactly is Marvin doing so much better than Chillz to warrant moving him as Delusional? I've noticed that Marvin is great at disappearing when we need a scorer. Moreover, if you want to talk about value, Marvin could probably get us more value than Chillz in a trade.

I'm sorry dude, but your sacred cow attitude about Marvin is indefensible. Please try to explain the reasoning behind your quote. To make it simple, if Marvin were on another team... and on the trading blocks, would you be willing to make a "Blockbuster" deal to get him.. (those are your words).. Would you trade JJ for Marvin? Would you trade Smoove for Marvin??

Please start your defense...

[DJlaysitup]

I would trade Marvin for Kobe...if they took Speedy too and threw in Odom and a first rounder.

(sarc.)

[hawkman]

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And all the talk of trading Marvin is delusional. Unless it's a blockbuster it ain't gonna happen.

You're going to have to qualify this. Why is it delusional? What exactly is Marvin doing so much better than Chillz to warrant moving him as Delusional? I've noticed that Marvin is great at disappearing when we need a scorer. Moreover, if you want to talk about value, Marvin could probably get us more value than Chillz in a trade.

I'm sorry dude, but your sacred cow attitude about Marvin is indefensible. Please try to explain the reasoning behind your quote. To make it simple, if Marvin were on another team... and on the trading blocks, would you be willing to make a "Blockbuster" deal to get him.. (those are your words).. Would you trade JJ for Marvin? Would you trade Smoove for Marvin??

Please start your defense...

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Actually, those are some pretty good questions.

[AHF]

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And all the talk of trading Marvin is delusional. Unless it's a blockbuster it ain't gonna happen.

You're going to have to qualify this. Why is it delusional? What exactly is Marvin doing so much better than Chillz to warrant moving him as Delusional? I've noticed that Marvin is great at disappearing when we need a scorer. Moreover, if you want to talk about value, Marvin could probably get us more value than Chillz in a trade.

I'm sorry dude, but your sacred cow attitude about Marvin is indefensible. Please try to explain the reasoning behind your quote. To make it simple, if Marvin were on another team... and on the trading blocks, would you be willing to make a "Blockbuster" deal to get him.. (those are your words).. Would you trade JJ for Marvin? Would you trade Smoove for Marvin??

Please start your defense...

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Actually, those are some pretty good questions.

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Marvin should not be considered a sacred cow by any means but I think from a reality-check perspective that BK can't move Marvin unless he knows he is going to win the deal. The only thing worse than passing on Paul/Deron with the MW pick would be moving him at 21 years old averaging 16 & 6 and watching him blowup for the next decade somewhere else while we get someone back who really disappoints (ala Kwame Brown for Caron Butler).

[Diesel]

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And all the talk of trading Marvin is delusional. Unless it's a blockbuster it ain't gonna happen.

You're going to have to qualify this. Why is it delusional? What exactly is Marvin doing so much better than Chillz to warrant moving him as Delusional? I've noticed that Marvin is great at disappearing when we need a scorer. Moreover, if you want to talk about value, Marvin could probably get us more value than Chillz in a trade.

I'm sorry dude, but your sacred cow attitude about Marvin is indefensible. Please try to explain the reasoning behind your quote. To make it simple, if Marvin were on another team... and on the trading blocks, would you be willing to make a "Blockbuster" deal to get him.. (those are your words).. Would you trade JJ for Marvin? Would you trade Smoove for Marvin??

Please start your defense...

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Actually, those are some pretty good questions.

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Marvin should not be considered a sacred cow by any means but I think from a reality-check perspective that BK can't move Marvin unless he knows he is going to win the deal. The only thing worse than passing on Paul/Deron with the MW pick would be moving him at 21 years old averaging 16 & 6 and watching him blowup for the next decade somewhere else while we get someone back who really disappoints (ala Kwame Brown for Caron Butler).

I think if Marvin were the major piece in a deal for Gasol... All would be forgiven even if he blew up. Gasol makes us a strong playoff team capable of winning the east.

[AHF]

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I think if Marvin were the major piece in a deal for Gasol... All would be forgiven even if he blew up. Gasol makes us a strong playoff team capable of winning the east.

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I agree there would be no immediate criticism and that at worst it would be like the Gasol for Shareef trade (except that Gasol would be filling the role of Shareef in this comparison). I would definitely consider a deal like that.

[Traceman]

player and I consider Chillz to be a part of our core. I MIGHT take a gamble on Artest but we would have to be getting him in a deal that didn't involve us losing JJ, Smoove, Marv, Horf or Chillz. He is just too volatile of a guy to risk the future of your franchise on. Just because he hasn't been involved in any PUBLICIZED incidents THIS SEASON, doesn't mean that he has "turned the corner." That dude could blow up at anytime.

In addition, I would NOT trade Marvin for Calderon. Chillz either. Horf, Smoove, Marv, Chillz and JJ make us what we are. The versatility of those guys is what makes us unique and I think that uniqueness could translate into us being special in a couple of years. BK is going to have to figure out how to keep that core together and I think he will do it. If things get tight and he has to trade Shelden or Zaza for a 2nd rounder to clear additional salary cap space to keep that group together, he should do it.

By the way, I like Calderon's game a lot and I advocated trading the #11 overall pick for him before the draft. I would still trade Acie for him in a heartbeat (and I like Acie and his potential a lot). I would LOVE to see the Hawks get him although I can't see how TOR can give him up with Ford's future in question.