JJ's effort

[Lascar78]

A quick poll to see how people feel about JJ's effort on the season.

It has seemed to me that since the first open scrimmage and preseason games, JJ has looked disinterested for the most part. He is shooting the lowest percentage of his career, and his lowest 3point % since 03. His effort on D has been about 50% of what it was for the first 2 years, going from very good to very average in my eyes.

Of course he has still had spurts on both ends of the floor where the competitor in him comes out, he wants every shot, he starts crossing everyone over and lighting them up, and can shut down some of the best scorers in the league. But those spurts have been pretty few and far between. For the most part he's content to just hand the ball off to someone else and take shots when they're available, but not force to create. He's gone from a guy who looked like an all-star carrying a team on his back to a guy who just looks content to be one of the guys.

Anyway you slice it, he doesn't look half as motivated, determined and hungry as he has for the past 2 years.

I'm not sure what the cause is. My best guesses would be:

-Pissed off at BK / AS for promising him more support and not delivering

-Drained from the pressure of having to carry the franchise

-Sick of Woody and his crap system

Anyhow, this came up in a Woody discussion in which I was saying that the coach is responsible for motivating his players and Joe is clearly less motivated than he was for the past 2 years. So I guess the question is, do you agree, what's the cause, and what's the solution?

[TexasPete]

I honestly think he's finished with Woody. He doesn't see any light at the end of the tunnel and it's taking a toll.

I don't understand how the owners fail to see Woodson's negative impact.

[gsuteke]

Joe always looks like he's asleep. Impossible to tell.

[Johnnybravo4]

Being 2nd in the league in minutes doesn't do well for your disposition.

[DrReality]

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Being 2nd in the league in minutes doesn't do well for your disposition.

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Good point. He seems pretty ambivalent most of the time. I've said it before that he is the one guy on the team that knows about a REAL NBA head coach. The rest of the guys are newbies and Woody is all they know, with a couple of exceptions.

[exodus]

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, and his lowest 3point % since 03.

He is shooting 35.9% (43.6% this month) from 3 so far this season. He shot 35.6% from 3 his first season here.

He is also shooting better at the ft line than he ever has.

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For the most part he's content to just hand the ball off to someone else and take shots when they're available, but not force to create.

He is averaging over 1 assist more per game this year than last year in spite of our shooting woes.

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Anyway you slice it, he doesn't look half as motivated, determined and hungry as he has for the past 2 years.

Funny how you don't look as hungry when your outside shot is a little off.

Joe has never had great body language. Even last year when he was having a huge game he wouldn't show a lot of emotion.

[Lascar78]

Yeah it's probably all of the above. He is being given too many minutes, he hasn't gotten the help he expected, he has to deal with the worst coach in the NBA, and an ownership that is still in limbo. He has seen how successful teams are run and I think he's gotten tired of leaving his guts out on the floor every night for a clown.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LMAO . . you think Laz tried to skew the poll a bit? You had to type a "Mitchell Report" just to try to skew the poll? LMAO !!! Nice job. And never ever criticize Diesel or anybody else for creating a biased poll . . if you have done that in the past.

It's like I said over the summer, the most underrated player on this team, is Joe friggin Johnson. What this fan base does to him, is the same crap the Boston fans used to pull with Paul Pierce, when it was obvious that he couldn't do it all by himself. Both he and PP had to be the playmaker and the scorer and the top perimeter defender on the damn team. When the team didn't win, they get all the blame for not playing like God on a nightly basis.

The majority of this fan base so desperately want Smoove to be the star here, that they'll dog JJ for every little thing. LOL @ him being disinterested. Like Teke says. He looks like he's sleep all the time anyway. But people misjudge that, and his shooting percentage, as him not caring?

He sure looked liked he cared on opening night vs Dallas . . and he definitey looked like he cared vs the Blazers on MLK Day. So when did he looked like he didn't care?

if he didn't care, he wouldn't play 40+ minutes a night.

If he didn't care, he'd make up some nagging injury excuse, to leave his teammates hanging ( see JO, Marbury, and Arenas ).

If he didn't care, he wouldn't defer to players on a nightly bsis, and try to make them better.

If he didn't care, he'd jack up a ton of shots, just to get his stats.

If he didn't care, he wouldn't guard the opposing teams best offensive during crunch time.

And if he didn't care, he wouldn't be asking for help, he'd ask to be traded.

Sometimes, I think this fan base doesn't even deserve a winner, because they wouldn't know a winner if if slapped them in the face.

[dalamchops]

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if he didn't care, he wouldn't play 40+ minutes a night.

If he didn't care, he'd make up some nagging injury excuse, to leave his teammates hanging ( see JO, Marbury, and Arenas ).

If he didn't care, he wouldn't defer to players on a nightly bsis, and try to make them better.

If he didn't care, he'd jack up a ton of shots, just to get his stats.

If he didn't care, he wouldn't guard the opposing teams best offensive during crunch time.

And if he didn't care, he wouldn't be asking for help, he'd ask to be traded.

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THANK YOU!!! Just because the coach is bad, it doesn't make him less passionate about winning and playing basketball.

[Lascar78]

Given the fact that he was asked to do at least as much in the past 2 seasons as he is this year, I don't see how any of that is relevant.

As for the poll, I don't see how it's biased poll. I said he was less motivated than the past 2 years, and you responded with a brilliant "LOL @ JJ isn't motivated. JJ plays his azz off just about every game. ", I don't see how the poll could be any more straightforward than "Has Joe seemed significantly less motivated overall this year compared to the past 2 years? ".

I put my opinion above because nobody wants empty threads with just a poll and most people come here to discuss what we disagree on.

FOCUS FOR A MINUTE AND READ THIS SENTENCE REALLY, REALLY SLOWLY: We all know Joe CARES about the hawks. The question is if he has been as MOTIVATED on the court as he was for the last 2 years.

I am not questioning Joe's character. He is my favorite hawk. But he has not been himself this year. For whatever reason he is beat down, frustrated with his coach, GM, teammates, whatever ... and he's not giving the same level of effort that he gave over the past 2 years. If I was lied to by my GM, and left to get run into the ground by a complete bozo of a coach, I could probably only take so much until my effort went down too.

But for the record, he doesn't choose his minutes, great players who care are the ones who want the ball to make the plays (not just give it to their less experienced teammates), and he almost always guards the SG regardless of who the best player is.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Given the fact that he was asked to do at least as much in the past 2 seasons as he is this year, I don't see how any of that is relevant.

As for the poll, I don't see how it's biased poll. I said he was less motivated than the past 2 years, and you responded with a brilliant "LOL @ JJ isn't motivated. JJ plays his azz off just about every game. ", I don't see how the poll could be any more straightforward than "Has Joe seemed significantly less motivated overall this year compared to the past 2 years? ".

I put my opinion above because nobody wants empty threads with just a poll and most people come here to discuss what we disagree on.

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I've never seen so many words typed before any other poll on Hawksquawk. You typed a manifesto before a poll.

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FOCUS FOR A MINUTE AND READ THIS SENTENCE REALLY, REALLY SLOWLY:

We all know Joe CARES about the hawks. The question is if he has been as MOTIVATED on the court as he was for the last 2 years.

I am not questioning Joe's character. He is my favorite hawk. But he has not been himself this year. For whatever reason he is beat down, frustrated with his coach, GM, teammates, whatever ... and he's not giving the same level of effort that he gave over the past 2 years. If I was lied to by my GM, and left to get run into the ground by a complete bozo of a coach, I could probably only take so much until my effort went down too.

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Of course you're questioning his character when you suggest that he's "significantly disinterested". When you phrase it like that, combined with the other "possible reasons", that translates into "JJ doesn't care about this season, compared to season's past." Phrase it anyway you want. But that's what you're saying.

I'll just add this to al of the other conspiracy theories that some of our fan base want to believe. And JJ isn't the first star plyer to go through a shooting sump, and he won't be the last. But even with that, some people even question if he's a star player.

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But for the record, he doesn't choose his minutes,

great players who care are the ones who want the ball to make the plays (not just give it to their less experienced teammates),

and he almost always guards the SG regardless of who the best player is.

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See, right there tells me that you don't think he cares.

And if what you say is true, then Nash would never pass the ball dwn the stretch of games . . Jordan wouldn't hve passed it to Paxson . . Olajuwon would've never kicked it out to a young Cassell or Horry . . and Kobe these days would never pass to a Jordan Farmar.

Great players make the CORRECT play . . whether it be to shoot the ball or pass the ball. JJ will not only shoot the ball in the clutch, he'll pass it to open teammates to show them that he trusts them, something that Kobe has constantly been criticized about, until this year.

I know. We can trade JJ for Arenas. He'll never pass to Smoove or Marvin in the clutch. He'll win some games and he'll lose some games. He'll have those 50 point games, and those 3 - 20 while going 0 - 10 from three games. And when we get to the playoffs, the other players won't know what to do.

The Wiz are so much better without that chucker. But that's the type of player you want here, because he'll always show that competitive fire . . by taking every open shot available.

[JackB1]

I love Joe's ability, but I hate his lack of emotion. He always has that "just got out of bed, walking to the john" look on his face. Does this guy EVER show any emotion? I bet if you peeled away his skin, you would find wires and cyborg stuff underneath. You look at his face and you can't tell if we are winning by 25 or losing by 25. To me, it appears like he doesn't care if we win or lose...like he's just punching the clock. Sure he's an Allstar, but we need a leader that shows some spirit on this team. He could learn a lot from Horf in that regard.

[JackB1]

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Being 2nd in the league in minutes doesn't do well for your disposition.

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He doesn't look any different at the start of a game. You can't blame his lack of emotion on his minutes.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Jack, everybody isn't a rah-rah, driven by emotions type of player. Ray Allen is the exact same way as Joe. So is/was Marvn Harrision, Barry Sanders, Tom Brady, Tim Duncan, Clyde Derxler, etc.

Those players never seem to get high or low througout the game, unless it was a key or winning play at the end. Same expression the entire game for the most part. They don't let their emotions get the best of them, nor do they let their emotions get them amped up, like other players do. It's wrong to misinterpret that as "not caring" or being "disinterested". That's just their personna.

JJ has had that same personna in the 3 years he's been here. The only difference with him this year, is that he's having more 5 - 17 FG games than he used to.

If he were shooting 46% FG, but still exhibited the exact same demeanor throughout the game, thi wouldn't even be an issue. People would be saying that he needs to be more of a vocal leader. They wouldn't be saying that he looks and acts like he doesn't care or that he was disinterested.

[bumpyphish1]

Whoever started this thread should be anshamed of themselves and ashamed to call themselves a Hawks fan. JJ has given himself to this franchise and he gets this. It's a grind. He isnt a rah rah guy. Get over yourself. Hell, if you want to be negative, there are tons of other viable subjects.

[Lascar78]

I'm no bashing JJ. I don't blame him. Again he's my favorite hawk. If BK had gotten me no help after he promised me the moon, and I was stuck being coached by a complete clown for the 3rd year in a row, I would probably want to slit my wrists. I feel bad for Joe. I'm not blaming him, I'm just saying something's clearly wrong as compared to the past 2 years. Looks like 70% of the board agrees.

And it's got nothing to do with showing emotion, he showed no emotion the past 2 years either, that doesn't bother me.

[coachx]

People seem to be confusing emotion with effort.

They are not related.

Some people have quiet demeanors but work their tails off. Just b/c you don't show emotion does not mean your not giving effort.

[AHF]

I don't know that it is an effort issue but my concern with JJ this year is that he seems much more negative about the team in his comments to the press. He just seems much less happy this year to me - which I think can affect someone's play. I would have to actually look at tape to see if his defensive intensity has really changed from last year.

[TroyMcClure]

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Whoever started this thread should be anshamed of themselves and ashamed to call themselves a Hawks fan. JJ has given himself to this franchise and he gets this. It's a grind. He isnt a rah rah guy. Get over yourself. Hell, if you want to be negative, there are tons of other viable subjects.

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Bumpy, there is absolutely nothing wrong with his post. Asamed? Get over yourself? I think you need to look in the mirror. You don't even realize who you are insulting. Lascar has always been one of the more positive people around here. How do questions become attacks to you? You may need to lay off the hippie lettuce, bro. You're reading too far into someone you don't know a whole lot about.

[coachx]

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I don't know that it is an effort issue but my concern with JJ this year is that he seems much more negative about the team in his comments to the press. He just seems much less happy this year to me -