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Losing hope on Marvin

exodus

By exodus
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exodus Newbie

exodus

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This is Marvins 3rd season and he still shows very poor court awareness. That pass to Iverson isn't an isolated incident. So many times it seems like the ball is a hot potato in his hands and he is in such a hurry to get rid of it that he makes completely boneheaded passes.

Smith makes bone headed passes too but he generally does he when he is being aggressive and actually trying to make something happen. Marvin frequently is just absent minded or wimping out.

Marvin's jumper is pretty pedestrian. his EFG on jumpers is 42% right now is mediocre. He has shown no inclination to develop 3 pt range. If you aren't going to shoot 3s you should at least shoot very well on shots inside the 3 pt line but he really isn't doing it.

He can't take contact at all so when he drives he pretty much has to hope he gets bailed out by the refs because he won't score very often.

he does play pretty good D when he actually has his head in the game. But his overall lack of aggression shows up there too. It also hurts him on the boards.

His overal clumsiness is just annoying. At this point i don't see him even becoming a borderline All-Star.

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Admin Newbie

Admin

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It does bother me that he isn't a better 3pt shooter than he is. He has absolutely perfect form on his jumper and can hit them from almost 3pt range with regularity when he is feeling it.

I am still willing to give him the rest of this year and next though before I really worry because he has improved every year and has worked on problem areas so all hope isn't lost yet.

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exodus Newbie

exodus

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He has absolutely perfect form on his jumper a

Actually he does have issues with his jumper. He frequently has balance problems when he tries to catch and shoot on the move. Most guys can stop on a dime and go straight up. He seems to drift in the air a lot. And he hasn't shown much ability to create his own jumper off the dribble.

His release is on the low side too which makes it tougher to shoot over people.

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BHayley Newbie

BHayley

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Marvin just has a general awkwardness about him like the way he walks is like one leg's longer than the other

Marvin does have an awkwardness about him. That annoying jog really gets to me. At the Woodward scrimmage back in October (right before the season started), Mr. Holman announced the players as they came out of the tunnel, and Marvin had that annoying limp as he was jogging out. WTF.

He can't penetrate, get fouled and make the shot period. I swear, he drives, and the second he gets touched, his arms fly everywhere, and the ball hits Dominique Wilkins 20 feet away in his courtside seat. EVERY time. I would trade Marvin straight up for a nice PG or package him for Gasol. If BK did either of these moves, I'd forgive him for the Paul / Williams disaster of 2005

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DrReality Rookie

DrReality

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It's time for Marvin Williams to step it up

Talented 3rd-year pro too often defers to Johnson, Smith

By SEKOU SMITH

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 01/25/08

Seattle — Marvin Williams couldn't have been more at home Friday morning.

His fitted Seattle Mariners cap was pulled down tight over his head, his hooded sweatshirt covering everything but the bill. He had a cup of Starbucks, what else, in one hand and a cell phone in the other as he made his way along a downtown sidewalk in the city he calls home.

POUYA DIANAT/Staff

(ENLARGE)

A Seattle native, Marvin Williams is still searching for that signature performance to take his career to the next level.

Yet, for all the comfort he feels here, an hour's ferry ride from his native Bremerton, the Hawks' third-year small forward is still searching for that signature performance in front of his hometown crowd.

Williams was a wide-eyed rookie the first time he came here with the Hawks. Last season he was in street clothes, still recovering from the broken finger that cost him the first 17 games of his second season.

Friday night's game against Seattle at KeyArena provided Williams with the opportunity to make up for lost time, an opening he's thankful for, considering he grew up watching the Sonics and dreaming about one day playing on this floor.

"There's no question this is big for me," said Williams, who is having his best season to date. "Coming home sometime can be added pressure for some people. But these are the same people who have seen me grow up and have been watching me play my whole life. They've seen my good days and my bad days and everything in between.

"And that goes for the NBA as well, because a lot of them have League Pass. So there are a lot of them still watching me. I had to get 50 tickets and there's at least that many or more [people] that have tickets of their own. Hopefully, there will be a nice turnout."

Hawks coach Mike Woodson is hoping they get to see the Williams he saw in practice Thursday at the University of Washington.

Williams was the vocal sparkplug on the practice floor. He was aggressive and playing like the sweet shooting, versatile player that had scouts drooling before the 2005 draft, when he was selected ahead of the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Williams with the No. 2 pick.

But too often, Woodson said, Williams defers to teammates Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. Especially when it comes to initiating the Hawks' offense, where Woodson wants him to be more aggressive in his approach and execution.

"I think Marvin is still learning and I think he can do so much more because he's capable of getting to the free-throw line," Woodson said. "Just like the other night in Denver, Marvin got a rebound and threw a ball away to Allen Iverson instead of bringing the ball up the floor. He's capable of doing that.

"Can you imagine him pushing the ball up the floor the way Josh Smith does? I want to see him do more of that. He needs to be more of a playmaker for us instead of just being a periphery piece as he does some nights."

Williams is the Hawks' third-leading scorer behind Johnson and Smith. He's averaging a career-best 16.1 points while taking just 11.5 shots per game. He's also averaging 5.8 rebounds and 2.0 assists. Woodson, though, is pushing for more.

"He's getting his numbers," Woodson said. "But those things can be deflating if you concentrate merely on the numbers. And I don't mean that in a negative way, but if you concentrate solely on the numbers, you can sometimes miss out on the what's really going on. And again, I think Marvin can do even more than he's doing in terms of helping this team win games."

Williams said he understands the constructive criticism Woodson is talking about. He said Woodson and assistant coaches Larry Drew and David Fizdale each took turns talking to him about it before, during and after Thursday's practice.

But sometimes it's hard to change who you are. And Williams is the easygoing guy from Seattle.

"If that's what they want me to do and who they want me to be then I need to do my best to be that person," Williams said. "I've always been the type of person and player to let things come to me and never try to force anything. And I feel like I'm better when I play like that.

"But I do feel like once I get into the flow of the game I need to start looking for my opportunities a little more, just to take some of the pressure off of Joe and Josh. Because I think when all three of us are rolling, we're pretty tough to stop."

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Guest Walter

Guest Walter

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But sometimes it's hard to change who you are. And Williams is the easygoing guy from Seattle.

"I've always been the type of person and player to let things come to me and never try to force anything. And I feel like I'm better when I play like that.

Williams has always been and will always be an unaggressive, weak-willed, 2nd-3rd tier prospect and player.

People insist that I and others like me have been unfair to MW. I insist that it is they that are being unfair to him; expecting him to be anything other than who he is. He didn't like to watch basketball, his HS team (which I would suppose he led) was a loser, he came in out of shape to teh biggest interview in his life, and basketball isn't solitary concern of him, something it should be when you leave college so early, necessitating you put in the extra work yourself, and have no other commitments in life.

MW will be a decent player, that's it. He will be less impactful than his PPG would even suggest. He will never change games consistently in any manner, even scoring. He simply isn't THAT guy. He doesn't want to be.

W

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DJlaysitup Newbie

DJlaysitup

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...MW will be a decent player, that's it. He will be less impactful than his PPG would even suggest. He will never change games consistently in any manner, even scoring. He simply isn't THAT guy. He doesn't want to be.

W

I haven't jumped in on the Marvin posts much but I pretty much agree on the above part of Walter's post. Marvin looks to me to be a decent player who will have good nights and bad nights and seldom be the "key" player.

That said - you never know. For the life of me I don't know why Marvin isn't shooting threes. Maybe he's been practicing them and they are just out of his range? That doesn't make sense to me. Maybe Woody is the culprit (that wouldn't surprise me at all). If Woody tells Marvin he doesn't want him shooting threes - his job is the mid-range jumper and occasional drive to the hoop - Marvin seems like the type of guy who would just accept that.

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Diesel Grand Master

Diesel

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But sometimes it's hard to change who you are. And Williams is the easygoing guy from Seattle.

"I've always been the type of person and player to let things come to me and never try to force anything. And I feel like I'm better when I play like that.

Williams has always been and will always be an unaggressive, weak-willed, 2nd-3rd tier prospect and player.

People insist that I and others like me have been unfair to MW. I insist that it is they that are being unfair to him; expecting him to be anything other than who he is. He didn't like to watch basketball, his HS team (which I would suppose he led) was a loser, he came in out of shape to teh biggest interview in his life, and basketball isn't solitary concern of him, something it should be when you leave college so early, necessitating you put in the extra work yourself, and have no other commitments in life.

MW will be a decent player, that's it. He will be less impactful than his PPG would even suggest. He will never change games consistently in any manner, even scoring. He simply isn't THAT guy. He doesn't want to be.

W

I'm surprised Teabag Pete hasn't shown up to give you the WHAT4!!!

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BusBoyIsBack Newbie

BusBoyIsBack

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Let me be the voice of reason.

Yes we are on a losing skid and the playoffs seem to be slipping out of our grasp but that doesn't change the fact that Marvin Williams has shown progression every year in the league.

As hard as it is to believe, this is only his 2nd year as a starter in the NBA.

The past 5 games the guy is averaging 17 and 7. How can you be mad at that for a guy who is the youngest player on the team?

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Diesel Grand Master

Diesel

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Let me be the voice of reason.

Yes we are on a losing skid and the playoffs seem to be slipping out of our grasp but that doesn't change the fact that Marvin Williams has shown progression every year in the league.

As hard as it is to believe, this is only his 2nd year as a starter in the NBA.

The past 5 games the guy is averaging 17 and 7. How can you be mad at that for a guy who is the youngest player on the team?

In his three years out of college, he has averaged 30 minutes per game. Forget being a starter... He has played 24 m/g, 34 m/g, and 36 m/g...

Why shouldn't he be good??

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TroyMcClure Newbie

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For the life of me I don't know why Marvin isn't shooting threes. Maybe he's been practicing them and they are just out of his range? That doesn't make sense to me.

He has a very flat j despite the fact that he actually jumps on a jumpshot. He springs really hard and then flattens out on his shot. He pushes the pall too often. I hate the way he kicks his legs underneath. It almost forces him to push the shot quickly. His shot isn't fluid enough to support that distance. He's not willing to throw up bricks like Smoove, though. I really haven't given it a lot of thought. His development is way down on the list of problems for me. I don't think we have this thread if Woody isn't here. Marvin is doing as much as he can, imo. Smoove is trying to assert himself, Joe is going to try and get his. Marvin is trying to be a good team player and grow at the same time. Sometimes, I don't think Smoove cares.

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BusBoyIsBack Newbie

BusBoyIsBack

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In his three years out of college, he has averaged 30 minutes per game. Forget being a starter... He has played 24 m/g, 34 m/g, and 36 m/g...

Why shouldn't he be good??

I can think of several players who wouldn't be any good given 36 or even 48 minutes.

The 2005 draft class turned out a lot deeper than expected and Marvin is near the top of the list.

1)Paul

2)Williams

3)Bynum

Those are the three guys that would go ahead of Marvin if there was a re-do in the draft hands down.

After those guys Marvin is right up there.

I know you may say "the #2 overall pick should be in the top 2 of the class" but stuff happens

And in fairness to Marvin, at least he's been closing the gap the last couple of years. The gap in efficiency between he and Paul was absolutely embarrassing the last two years. While it's still monumental, he continues to close it.

He may never fully close it, but if he can get up to 20 PPG next year and stay there for his career, then I think that would be a big part of this puzzle.

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