It's time.

[Diesel]

Even though I know it will never happen.

I say it's time to trade JJ.

I like JJ but there are a few reason why I say it's time.

1. He's got the highest value that he will ever have as a Hawk.

2. Our empty pockets can't afford him.

3. Aside from being injured, I don't think he wants to be out there.

4. We've totally ignored his call for real help.

5. With JS and JC up for resignment, it's a good time to see what the market will yield for Joe.

6. JJ really doesn't fit our style...

Let me eloborate here because this is the crux of my point.

JJ is a wonderful shooter, ball handler, etc...

However, JJ doesn't fit in with our style of play (even when we get one). We have athletic wings who can get out and run. Joe is not that. Joe is a 2 who should be playing in a motion offense.

His game is more akin to Ray Allen's than anything we've used him for.

I think the power of our game is to get up and down the court and score.

With that in mind, I think that there are some certain targets that we should shop JJ for.

1. Chris Paul.

I know.. Not going to happen.

2. Jose Calderon.

Got your attention huh... I say Calderon/Kapono/Bargani for Joe Johnson.

3. Corey Maggette.

How about Joe Johnson for Maggette/Cassell/2008 first.

Wouldn't a lineup of Kaman/Brand/JJ/Mobley make them break out for a cold sweat...

4. Deron Williams.

JJ for Williams/Okur is a dream to me. Probably could never happen though.

5. LaMarcus Aldridge.

With the coming of Greg Oden.. do you think PTL would willing give up LA to us for JJ. Could they play JJ at 3 and Roy at 2? That's scary.

JJ/Lo for Aldridge/Lafrentz/Jack.

[AtLaS]

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However, JJ doesn't fit in with our style of play (even when we get one). We have athletic wings who can get out and run. Joe is not that. Joe is a 2 who should be playing in a motion offense.

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Joe is a PERFECT player for a fast break team, once we decide to consistently become one. He can shoot well, can handle the ball well, and finds the open man. Look at his percentages in PHX in that fast break offense. In the 1 on 1 open court situations, he scores almost every time, mainly because of his strength..

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2. Jose Calderon.

Got your attention huh... I say Calderon/Kapono/Bargani for Joe Johnson.

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I just don't want Bargnani, he absolutely SUCKS. He can't rebound, he's slow, and can't defend. He's basically a 7' Steve Kerr, except he hinders the team more because he plays PF and can't rebound. Calderon is also due for a HUGE contract next season.

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3. Corey Maggette.

How about Joe Johnson for Maggette/Cassell/2008 first.

Wouldn't a lineup of Kaman/Brand/JJ/Mobley make them break out for a cold sweat...

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Unless that 08 first is top 3, no thanks, Maggette is just nowhere near as talented.

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4. Deron Williams.

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Will never happen.

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5. LaMarcus Aldridge.

With the coming of Greg Oden.. do you think PTL would willing give up LA to us for JJ. Could they play JJ at 3 and Roy at 2? That's scary.

JJ/Lo for Aldridge/Lafrentz/Jack.

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Would never happen, Portland is EXTREMELY high on Aldridge, and their dream is pairing him with Oden. Just think about how devastating that frontcourt will be? They are already this good, think about how good they'll be after adding a top center in the NBA.

I say it's time to get JJ some help HERE, rather than trading him somewhere else. I honestly wouldn't be against trading Horford, he has a ton of value and could really improve us. I just don't feel we can trade JJ/Marvin because they are basically our only shooters. Trading them will make us an even WORSE shooting team unless we get shooters in return, but in that case we wouldn't be filling any needs.

[Diesel]

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oe is a PERFECT player for a fast break team, once we decide to consistently become one. He can shoot well, can handle the ball well, and finds the open man. Look at his percentages in PHX in that fast break offense. In the 1 on 1 open court situations, he scores almost every time, mainly because of his strength..

No. I think JJ is a part of the reason why our fast breaking offense comes to a screeching halt. You're right when you say that JJ can do a lot with the ball in his hand. However, that's not what happens in a fast break offense. If you haven't noticed, we become a team full of observers when JJ has the ball. I don't think there's anything wrong with JJ's game, it's just different from our need.

In the Phoenix offense, JJ did less ball handling and more shooting. That role would suit JJ better here. However, do you want to spend 14 million for a designated Shooter?

My thought of fast breaks is that there's a PG and then everybody else is running... and maybe one spot up shooter who can hit the three. Joe does not fit there. Joe fits with a team that runs motions and can probably run him off of screens to get an open look. More like what Detroit does and what the Pacers used to do with Miller and what Ray Allen had for most of his career.

If we had a post player who commanded a double team, I would say JJ is the guy we should keep. However, we have no post presence (offensively) and we have a bunch of wings with great athleticism. JJ is not a perfect fit.

You said "In the 1 on 1 open court situations, he scores almost every time, mainly because of his strength." So does Chillz. So does Smoove. So does Marvin. Most NBA players can score one on one. The question is on the break, what role does he play? Teams know that when you make JJ play the role of facilitator, you have neutralized him and the Hawks. That's because that's not his role. He's a scorer. You ever notice that on a true uptempo team, there's no one scorer. It's usually several guys.. most of the times with flaws to their game and they all can score on the break!

[AtLaS]

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No. I think JJ is a part of the reason why our fast breaking offense comes to a screeching halt. If you haven't noticed, we become a team full of observers when JJ has the ball.

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Yes in the halfcourt offense they do, but not on fastbreaks. When does JJ not find the open man on fast breaks? He's always been effective on fast breaks.

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In the Phoenix offense, JJ did less ball handling and more shooting. That role would suit JJ better here. However, do you want to spend 14 million for a designated Shooter?

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JJ was a goto player when they needed a bucket in the halfcourt offense. JJ was assisted less than ANYONE on that PHX team. Ask any PHX fan, JJ was NOT just a shooter or anything close to that in PHX.

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Joe fits with a team that runs motions and can probably run him off of screens to get an open look.

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I agree, but we should be doing that in the halfcourt anyway. When you don't have a PG, constantly coming off screens can really help facilitate an offense, and somewhat hide the PG woes.

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You said "In the 1 on 1 open court situations, he scores almost every time, mainly because of his strength."

So does Chillz. So does Smoove. So does Marvin.

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That's not even close to true, none are nearly as effective as JJ in this situation.

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Teams know that when you make JJ play the role of facilitator, you have neutralized him and the Hawks.

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Since when? JJ has always been a good playmaker, he's one of the best playmaking SGs in the NBA and that's not even questionable.

[JackB1]

Diesel I have to agree with you on this one. JJ does't fit our style...he slows down the pace lots of times. He's a half court style player and when he gets the ball we tend to stand around and watch him go 1 on 1. He's not a great passer either. I think he accepts losing too easily and never looks upset after a loss...I hate that! I don't care if that's his personality....if he has zero emotion all the time, he needs to go get some therapy.

We need a C and a PG more that a SG at this point. Chills and Acie (if we get a real PG) can handle that spot.

[Swatguy]

"D" I believe option 3 is the winner of the bunch, with an addition. Send also Lue and ask for a second #1 pick ('10) or both '08 picks if they balk.

Reports are Sterling is demanding Something to happen. this is there chance and so, for the Hawks.

Maggette is a player and you know Sam can.

[cowa]

Funny, if we actually did do one of the trades mentioned above (which I DO NOT advocate), #3 might be the one I woudl be LEAST inclined to do. Sam is a UFA after this season, and Maggette has a player option which he is very likely to invoke. We could end up with a #1 pick in the 10-15 range and cap space for JJ. If that's all we can get, there is no way we trade him.

Now, I don't agree with trading Joe at this time. While I agree with some of the points Diesel made, the bigger question I have is if we trade JJ, what kind of message does that send the rest of the league? JJ is the ONLY FA who actually wanted to come here, and then after 2 1/2 years we trade him away? Now, I know our ownership is in shambles, and we're not likely going after any name FA's in the near future, but it might take years after our ownership situation is finalized to get rid of the stigma we would have if we dealt JJ now.

We need to build around him, not the other way around.

[swolehawk2]

Now that I think about it....I would rather fire the coach before trading players. Chances are, due to Woodson's incompetence, we do not know the potential of the players or this team. It would be great to see what a proven coach could do with this talent, a coach with a style and philosophy, and one that makes his team stick to both.

I can dream.

[DJlaysitup]

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...We need to build around him, not the other way around.

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Actually BK has built around JJ for awhile now...and now (with the additions of Al Horford and Acie Law this year)...the building is over. BK's team is complete so all we have to do is set back and see how the "Master Plan" works out.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Atlas, you are exactly right.

JJ does not slow this team down. If anything, a player like him is essential to a team that likes to run. Almost every running team in the history of basketball has these 3 elements:

1) a PG who can push the pace, make the correct decision with who to give the ball to, and possess the ability to score the basketball himself if need be.

2) at least one atlhletic wing or guard who can run the floor and finish on the break when he revceives the ball.

3) at least one great shooting wing or guard that can trail the break, and knock down the 3 or an open outside shot.

Phoenix 4 years ago: Nash, Marion, JJ

80s Lakers: Magic, Worthy, Scott

They could spread the floor perfectly and you had to account for everybody. Anfd the PG always made the correct decision with the ball.

The reason why the Hawks can't get out and run like everybody wants them to run, has everything to do with who is bringing the ball up the floor. We can't properly run the break, with Chill, Horford, or Smoove racing the ball up the floor. And because AJ won't make people accountable for him, he's only adequate in running the break.

Situation:

- Rebound is immeadiately grabbed by Horford, who passes to AJ

- Once AJ starts up the court, he sees that Smoove and JJ are out running with him. Hawks have the advantage. It's a 3 on 2 break with AJ pushing the pace

- On a real break, AJ has to push HARD to not only make his man accountable for him, but to also make the other defender think about cutting him off, so that he doesn't get a lay-up.

- Smoove should go hard toward the goal, while givng AJ enough space to score the lay-up

- JJ should trail AJ, looking for the pass if JJ is left wide open.

But AJ is the key. He has to make the decision to take the ball himself, or find the open man. He can't always pass the ball in thay situation.

Baron usually takes the ball all the way in. So does Deron most of the time. Parker and Ellis almost always take the ball to the rim.

Nash, on some occasions, will even pull up for a 3, if the defender closest to him is backpeddling and playing way off of him. Most of the time, he's passing to a shooter.

Paul likes to drive the ball and kick out to Peja for a 3

A shooter is just as important as a finisher on a fast break. But the most important element is who is leadng the break. He is the decision maker that will enable everything to work.

[DrReality]

i agree to trade him for the right deal. He'd help someone a bunch and has the most value of anyone. A change of scenery would do him good.

[Diesel]

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Atlas, you are exactly right.

JJ does not slow this team down. If anything, a player like him is essential to a team that likes to run. Almost every running team in the history of basketball has these 3 elements:

1) a PG who can push the pace, make the correct decision with who to give the ball to, and possess the ability to score the basketball himself if need be.

2) at least one atlhletic wing or guard who can run the floor and finish on the break when he revceives the ball.

3) at least one great shooting wing or guard that can trail the break, and knock down the 3 or an open outside shot.

Phoenix 4 years ago: Nash, Marion, JJ

80s Lakers: Magic, Worthy, Scott

They could spread the floor perfectly and you had to account for everybody. Anfd the PG always made the correct decision with the ball.

The reason why the Hawks can't get out and run like everybody wants them to run, has everything to do with who is bringing the ball up the floor. We can't properly run the break, with Chill, Horford, or Smoove racing the ball up the floor. And because AJ won't make people accountable for him, he's only adequate in running the break.

Situation:

- Rebound is immeadiately grabbed by Horford, who passes to AJ

- Once AJ starts up the court, he sees that Smoove and JJ are out running with him. Hawks have the advantage. It's a 3 on 2 break with AJ pushing the pace

- On a real break, AJ has to push HARD to not only make his man accountable for him, but to also make the other defender think about cutting him off, so that he doesn't get a lay-up.

- Smoove should go hard toward the goal, while givng AJ enough space to score the lay-up

- JJ should trail AJ, looking for the pass if JJ is left wide open.

But AJ is the key. He has to make the decision to take the ball himself, or find the open man. He can't always pass the ball in thay situation.

Baron usually takes the ball all the way in. So does Deron most of the time. Parker and Ellis almost always take the ball to the rim.

Nash, on some occasions, will even pull up for a 3, if the defender closest to him is backpeddling and playing way off of him. Most of the time, he's passing to a shooter.

Paul likes to drive the ball and kick out to Peja for a 3

A shooter is just as important as a finisher on a fast break. But the most important element is who is leadng the break. He is the decision maker that will enable everything to work.

I don't disagree that most fastbreaking teams love a shooter...

However, JJ is not a shooter anymore. He's a scorer.

Go back to your film of Scott, Peja, or even JJ in Phoenix. There's something that all three guys have in common...

They were catch and shoot guys.

JJ left Phoenix because he wanted to be more than a catch and shoot guy. He wanted to be a top scorer for his team.

Well, we've made him that. A scorer.

So... instead of being somebody trusted to drain the big shot on the break, JJ is the guy leading the break in some case, in some cases, we pass it out to JJ and let him work from the top of the key... and do his rain drop in the lane. I don't have a problem with JJ... It's just that the style he plays now is not going to fit in with a running uptempo team.

Now we don't have to be a running uptempo team. However, that would require us changing something else.

[AtLaS]

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They were catch and shoot guys.

JJ left Phoenix because he wanted to be more than a catch and shoot guy.

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Again, that is not true at all. JJ was a GOTO scorer in the halfcourt set for PHX, he was not "just" a catch and shoot guy at all.

JJ was assisted only 50% of the time in PHX which is hardly nothing. By comparison, Amare was assisted 60% of the time that season and Marion was assisted 73% of the time. This season, Kobe is assisted 41% of the time, so that will give you an idea. You can even ask PHX fans, JJ was the LEAST effected player by Steve Nash's addition because he's always been good at creating his own shot. Basically the only difference Nash made for JJ was his 3pt%. JJ was asked to ISO a LOT in PHX, he was nowhere NEAR just a catch and shoot player.

[Lascar78]

Agreed.

In Phoenix, JJ did a lot of catch and shoot guy for 3 quarters, and in the 4th quarter if the game was close at all they went to him as the go to guy on big possessions. Nash would push and look for the easy bucket. If they didn't find it JJ went to work.