The situaton in Memphis

[TheNorthCydeRises]

. . is a lot worse than any of you think.

The Grizzlies worst enemy in that city is actually the college team, the Memphis Tigers. While the Griz struggle to even fill the arena to 70% capacity, the Tigers have EVERY home game sold out this year. Every single one.

With Memphis only having 600K people in the city, and a little over a million people in metro Memphis, the people there are pretty much choosing between the Griz and the Tigers. Coach Cal and the Tigers have that city on lock.

If the Griz were in Louisville, they'd be going through the same thing, if Pitino and the Cardinals were a top 5 team.

Here's how bad their financial situation is. I was watching their game against the Warriors a few weeks ago, and the Grizzlies announcers were talking about the attendance situaton, in comparison to what the Warriors have. Of course, they gave the Warriors crowd props, but said something that speaks volumes about the state of the Grizzlies.

The Lakers came to Memphis about 3 weeks ago. Kobe is a box office draw, no matter where he goes. In Memphis, that game is ALWAYS sold out. This year, the announcers said that it might have been 11 - 12 thousand in the building to see the Lakers that night. That's unheard of for a Laker game in Memphis, even if the game was on a weeknight.

If we're "broke" as a franchise, then Memphis is literally on skid row.

It's easy to see why they took the Lakers offer instead of ours. They don't want to spend any extra more money than they have to. They got a cheap young, but potentially talented player, and 2 future picks to work with. Most of all though, they can run that team on the cheap, while selling the fan base on the potential of the young kids.

Sound familiar?

Critt + 2 first round picks is almost the exact same deal we did with Phoenix to get JJ. And Memphis will have the option to either use those picks, or sell them off for other assets, or just for extra cash, like Phoenix did.

Chill + AJ + Lue + Lorenzen gets that deal done, but they don't get any future assets, and the y would have to pay Chill at least MLE money.

Replace Chill with Marvin, and it's a more attractive deal, but at a redundant position. It would be like us trading Horford to acquire Maggette. Memphis is full of those tweener 3s and 4s.

Replace Smoove with Chill, and they have to pay Smoove big money to stay.

I think the only way we get Gasol, is if we took Cardinal too. Then, they would gladly taken Smoove and re-signed him.

The Laker trade gives them a "potential" type player in Critt ( who may may play a lot at the 2 in Memphis ), plus the 2 picks that the can use however they want. It's a salary dump, that also gives them 3 cheap assets, instead of 1.

I don't think they want to spend extra money, if they're horrible and the fans aren's showing up. They'd rather go young, and build around Gay and Conley. They may want to win, but they have to get the financial situaton under control first.

Then, if they do decide to move to Vegas or wherever, they maybe could make a major move for a FA, to be the face of the franchise in that new city, along with Gay.

[Gray Mule]

Small, mostly overlooked part of this deal which may

meen nothing, but then again, it might.

Pau Gasol has a brother who is playing overseas right now.

Marc is a 7'1" center and the Grizzlies obtained his

rights in this deal.

He may never come to the USA and play in the NBA. He may

not be worth anything to Memphis and their franchise.

Again, he might. Could be a long shot gamble to expect

anything from this "throw in" on the deal. Just a token

move. Probably. Still, strange things happen. A little

extra pack of sugar to sweeten the deal.

Everyone, including me, thinks, "It's nothing." Still,

against all the odds, what if ---------- !!

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[BusBoyIsBack]

I think it's blatant tanking and it was the most ridiculously one sided trade ever

Why the hell would the Grizz need another rookie PG when they just took one with the 4th pick overall?

And how are they going to trade one of them considering the depth of the PG class coming out?

Man that was stupid!

[Guest Walter]

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It's easy to see why they took the Lakers offer instead of ours. They don't want to spend any extra more money than they have to. They got a cheap young, but potentially talented player, and 2 future picks to work with. Most of all though, they can run that team on the cheap, while selling the fan base on the potential of the young kids.

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We could've and would've sent them Lo, AJ, Lue, SW, ZaZa, Law, and a FAR BETTER 2010 pick for Gasol and Lowry. Lo, AJ, and Lue = Kwame. SW and Law are better than Crittenton. ZaZa is better than a 27-30 pick AND while a CHEAP center comes off the books IN ONE YEAR. AND our pick would have been better.

Pulease. BK just stuck his head up his arse.

W

[DrReality]

I lived in Memphis years ago when Keith Lee was king and the Tigers were ranked number 1 for a day? The city goes nuts over them and they should becasue they play exciting basketball.

As I posted before, why wouldn't they move the Griz to Vegas and be the showcase for the league. There would be tons of money from corporate as well as tourist.

[BornandDieHawks]

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Sound familiar?

Critt + 2 first round picks is almost the exact same deal we did with Phoenix to get JJ. And Memphis will have the option to either use those picks, or sell them off for other assets, or just for extra cash, like Phoenix did.

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The Lakers also got Memphis 2nd round pick in 2010. I am betting the Lakers 1st round pick will be really low and Memphis 2nd rounder will be really high. So in essence the Lakers gave up one 1st rounder in 2008 and moved back a few places in 2010.

[MemphisX]

Pot meet kettle.

The irony of an Atlanta fan trying to bag on a team for their attendance.

The Grizzlies make more money than the Hawks.

Why not move the Hawks to Vegas?

[Guest Walter]

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The Lakers also got Memphis 2nd round pick in 2010. I am betting the Lakers 1st round pick will be really low and Memphis 2nd rounder will be really high. So in essence the Lakers gave up one 1st rounder in 2008 and moved back a few places in 2010.

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I'd rather have the non-guaranteed Memphis pick! What a screw over!

W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Pot meet kettle.

The irony of an Atlanta fan trying to bag on a team for their attendance.

The Grizzlies make more money than the Hawks.

Why not move the Hawks to Vegas?

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No one is bagging on the Griz. I'm just telling it like it is. I seriously doubt the Hawks are making less money than the Griz. Many more corporatons in ATL and the Hawks have higher attendance.

Both franchises are in bad shape money-wise.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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We could've and would've sent them Lo, AJ, Lue, SW, ZaZa, Law, and a FAR BETTER 2010 pick for Gasol and Lowry. Lo, AJ, and Lue = Kwame. SW and Law are better than Crittenton. ZaZa is better than a 27-30 pick AND while a CHEAP center comes off the books IN ONE YEAR. AND our pick would have been better.

Pulease. BK just stuck his head up his arse.

W

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. . . when you are clueless to what's going on. Which isn't surprising.

Say Memphis does your deal. Yes, Lo, AJ, and Lue = Kwame, but SW, Zaza and Law doesn't = Critt + the draft picks + Marc Gasol. They're better players ( we hope ), but they definitely don't cost the same.

SW, Zaza and Law will make about 9.3 million next year combined. Even if you reduce that to just Shelden and Law, it's still a combined 5.3 million.

Critt and the low 1st Laker draft pick will make about 2.5 - 3 million combined next year. That 2 - 3 ( or 6 - 7 ) million difference may not seem like a big deal to you, but it is to them. They're trying to save money everywhere in the short term, to set themselves up in the long term. Marc Gasol, if and when they decide to bring him up, isn't going to cost a lot either. Next year, they want to be like the 2004 Hawks, as far as payroll goes.

That's why they would love to get rid of Cardinal, and the 13 million he's owed after this season.

That's why they traded Stromile for Jason Collins. Stro had a player option that he could exercise next season.

That's why they even might sell off Mike Miller, who is a 9+ million a year player next season.

And the supposed 2010 pick BET NOT BE FAR BETTER if we acquired Gasol. With Gasol potentially being added to a JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Horford, and Law core, we damn well better be a top 10 team, if not a top 5 team, by 2010.

And why trade Lowry to us, just to take back Law, when they can keep Lowry, and add Critt to the mix? Especially since Critt can play both the 1 and especially the 2? Two assets are better than 1.

Critt + the 2 draft picks + 7-1 Marc Gasol, trumps that deal you propose easily, because they don't have to necessarily pay in the immeadiate short term for those assets, and they can try to sell that fan base on the "potential" of those picks and Gasol.

That's actually 4 potential assets to our 2 - 3, that they don't even have to pay for right away. You always talk about draft capital. That's capital right there, even if they don't use it all.

As for Critt, I've always said that he is more Jamal Crawford-like, than a true PG. If Memphis moves Miller, don't be surprised if they trade him just for expiring contracts, and play Critt at the 2. Even if they don't, he'll backup Milller, while Lowry will backup Conley.

[Guest Walter]

link

Uh, can you please be accurate within your nonsense. The deal includes Memphis' 2010 VERY HIGH 2nd rder which as a non-guaranteed pick is as valuable as a guaranteed VERY LOW 27-30 1st rder. From now on, the "2 first rd picks" nonsense should be duly qualified to reflect the nonsense that it is.

2ndly, Memphis has to field a team and there isn't a cheaper center option out there than ZaZa. His deal gives them another $5-6 mil off the book the following year when Swift comes off the books.

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But most importantly this article indicates that we were not even TRYING for Gasol!

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link

Wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (cough, cough, sputter, clang) wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

I hear the "BK excuse maker 1000" starting up again.

W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You still don't get it, so it's no reason to keep trying to explain it to you.

It's been reported for god knows how long that the Hawks had a standing offer for Gasol. Yet, because some realgm article doesn't mention that, you want to use that as proof that we didn't even have an offer on the table.

And in other articles, the Memphis GM himsef has said that he wasn't trying to just sell off Gasol for nothing, even though he did just that.

What we need to know, was what exactly the standing offer was. Tell Sekou to get on his job, and find out exactly what the offer was, then go from there.

Oh I forgot, you don't even believe an offer was made in the first place.

The bottom line is that the Laker offer was better for them financially in the short term, and talent-wise in the long term.

[WraithSentinel]

What was the Hawks standing offer? I don't remember hearing about any standing offer.

[Guest Walter]

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The bottom line is that the Laker offer was better for them financially in the short term

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Same cap difference with regard to Lo, AJ, and Lue vs. Kwame. However, since the new CBA in 2005 rookie contracts are only guaranteed for 2 years. Thus if SW were included his $4 million or so could come off the books this year.

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Rookie scale contracts will provide for two guaranteed seasons

with two separate one-year options in favor of the team for seasons 3 and 4. (In the previous agreement, rookie scale contracts provided for three (3) guaranteed seasons with a team option for year four.)

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insidehoops

DAYUM! We could have easily provided Memphis with another $4 million in cap space. They would have been better off financially in the short-term (there went your argument) trading with us.

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and talent-wise in the long term.

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1) Childress is > Crittenton and is less redundant for Memphis than Crittenton.

2) Our pick in 2010 would have been better than ANYTHING L.A. would have provided in the form of late 27-30 picks.

3) We didn't need to get an early 2nd rder back making one of LA's late 1st, guaranteed picks WORTHLESS.

4) This doesn't even address including ZaZa or Law (with Lowry in return in the case of the later).

...

Of course our "standing offer" was dead in the water when Memphis changed their plans, but when that happens you would hope your seemingly interested GM raises an eyebrow, much less lifts a finger.

...

So in short, with Childress plus others, our likely MUCH higher 1st rd pick, the negated 1st rd/2nd rd picks in 2010, and SW expiring contract we could offer more talent AND more in expiring contracts than LA to a non-conference rival. With ZaZa Memphis could get even more relief next year.

S

[Guest Walter]

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Rookie scale contracts will provide for two guaranteed seasons

with two separate one-year options in favor of the team for seasons 3 and 4. (In the previous agreement, rookie scale contracts provided for three (3) guaranteed seasons with a team option for year four.)

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insidehoops

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[DJ_Money]

Walt, I believe the new CBA does apply to Shelden.

We already picked up the $3.3 million option for 08/09 back in August. See below.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/Hawks_Exerci...ams_082107.html

I assume we would have to make a decision on 09/10 by the same point in time this year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

DJ . . don't tell him anything man. He should've already known that. Deep down, he knew that Shelden had already been extended. That's why he added another post after he so-called proved his point.

Walter, I usually don't pull numbers and stats out of the air. When I cite numbers, I usually have a source. If the source is inaccurate, the smart people on this board will immeadiately correct me.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

If you go there, you'll clearly see that Shelden had already been extended for next year, and is due 3.4 million REGARDLESS of if we have him, or if anybody else has him.

As I keep trying to tell your hardheaded self, Memphis is now just trying to save as many dollars as they can for NEXT SEASON. They'll field a full roster, but they're not trying to add a lot of talent in thr form of guaranteed contracts right now. Not even if that contract comes off the books in the summer of 2009.

If they could've gotten rid of Cardinal's deal, maybe things are different. But no GM wanted that horrible contract for a player like that.

The Laker deal was special, because they got the cap relief they wanted with Kwame's expiring deal, they acquired 2 first round picks, a very low cost talent in Critt, and a future potential piece at center in Marc Gasol that they don't even have to pay for yet.

2008 - they have their own pick + the Lakers 1st round pick in the draft + their own 2nd round pick

2009 - own pick + own 2nd round pick

2010 - own pick + Lakers 1st round pick.

So by the 2010 - 11 season, they'll potentially have:

- Gay ( SF, potential star )

- Conley ( PG )

- Critt ( combo guard )

- 5 first round picks

- 2 possible high 2nd round picks that should be in the top 40 overall

- Marc Gasol ( 7-1 center )

- and the cap room to add a big time free agent if they chose to, in 2009 or 2010.

And anything can happen in sports. What if Kobe goes down with an injury? What if Kobe opts out of his deal after next year, if the addition of Gasol still can't get them over the hump?

Are you done with this yet?

[Guest Walter]

northcyde, If Memphis wants cap space so badly, we could've sent ZaZa, SW (and Law for Lowry or Childress) along with Lo, AJ, and Lue. That's $18+ million in cap space in 2 years.

All that other BS was arguing with nobody. Memphis would have that AND a higher 1st rd pick if they dealt with us and not two guaranteed 28th picks in the draft MINUS giving up their own 34th pick 2nd rder.

But frankly northcyde, 80% of HS disagrees with you and we weren't even mentioned as one of the many teams TRYING to make a deal for Gasol. BK's got you up his arse too. Time to pack it up.

W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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northcyde, If Memphis wants cap space so badly, we could've sent ZaZa, SW (and Law for Lowry or Childress) along with Lo, AJ, and Lue. That's $18+ million in cap space in 2 years.

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LMAOOOOOOOO !!!! You STILL don't get it.

You want to be right so bad, that you're actually telling Memphis to . . "hey, take Shelden and Zaza off of our hands. Yeah, you have to pay them 7.3 million next year, but in 2009, you won't have to pay them a thing! Great deal for you guys!!!"

Then they'll look at you and say . . "ummmm, how about we NOT take them, save an extra 7.3 million in 2008, add an extra 1st round pick in 2008 ( on the cheap ), and still achieve what you want us to do by 2009, in 2008."

LMAOOOO . . UNBELIEVABLE !!!

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All that other BS was arguing with nobody. Memphis would have that AND a higher 1st rd pick if they dealt with us and not two guaranteed 28th picks in the draft MINUS giving up their own 34th pick 2nd rder.

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LMAOOOOO !!! Well why make the deal then, if Gasol isn't going to make this team significantly better? By 2010, we better be a top 10 or even a top 5 team with Gasol. You don't make the deal in the first place, unless you believe that. You don't trade for a Gasol, just to be the #6 seed in the playoffs. So where would our 2010 pick we gave to Memphis land? If it doesn's land somewhere between 23 - 30, we shouldn't make the deal for Gasol in the first place.

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But frankly northcyde, 80% of HS disagrees with you and we weren't even mentioned as one of the many teams TRYING to make a deal for Gasol. BK's got you up his arse too. Time to pack it up.

W

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LMAOOOOOOOO!!!! I think 80% of Hawksquawk could give a damn about this thread, at this point. The Lakers deal was better for what Memphis is trying to do now. Most rational people can see that. Your problem, is that you think they'd actually take on more money in the short term, even if they can get rid of the contracts in the following year.

Forget that they're losing money by the boatloads. You're like . . "We'll take Gasol off your hands to give you cap relief, but give you back 7 million dollars worth of contracts for next season, to make the deal work."

Hell, if WE could get rid of Shelden and Zaza right now, so that we wouldn't have to pay them a combined 7.3 million next year, we'd get rid of them. But you want to sell Memphis on taking them, when they're trying to cut costs across the board NEXT YEAR?

LMAOOOOOOOOO !!!!

Keep it coming Walter. It's hilarious seeing you flounder like the that goldfish in that old "Faith No More" video. I know this is like calculus to you though . . LMAOOOOO !!!