Woodson shoud be FIRED 9am SHARP !!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I've done something tonight that I've NEVER done on this site . . and that is actually take a LONG TIME in thinking about what I am going to write. I didn't want to write something all emotional and ish.

I said at the beginning of the season, if the Hawks fell 8 games or more below .500 at ANY point of the season, Woody should be fired.

We're 7 games under ( should be 6 ), and have to play the Lakers in LA to start a 5 game west coast road trip. It's essentially the ZERO HOUR . . Hawk Armageddon, if you will. And what's worse about that trip, is that we have 2 consecutive back-to-backs in that stretch. If Bruce Willis doesn't push that button to blow up the asteroid, we might be completely dead after that trip.

That's 4 games in 5 nights folks . . on the (( bleepin )) road.

Yes, we're still in the playoff hunt. But we defnitely have to win at least 2 out of the 5 road games. To go 1 - 4 this time, may mean that we have to play .500 ball the rest of the way, just to have a shot. If this team falls more than 3 games below the 8th spot, I think we might be done . . which would be a damn shame.

The most disturbing thing about this loss, is the decision to go with an ice cold AJ, over Acie, who had been playing the best game of his career up to that point. Up until that time, AJ had played a total of 15 minutes, while Acie had logged 28 minutes.

I understood why he subbed Smoove in for Acie ( even though I would've taken out Lue ). But after Smoove quickly picked up foul #6, and he opted to go with a cold AJ, you knew right then and there that he just couldn't bring himself to trust the rookie down the stretch.

This was the perfect chance to officially pass the PG torch to Acie. The perfect time to see if he could actually lead the Hawks to victory, like he used to do in college. The perfect time to have his confidence sky high.

And Woody (( bleeped )) it up.

There's no other way to describe it. He flat out (( bleeped )) it up.

This team is going nowhere, unless Acie is given the chance to do what he was drafted to do. And that is to LEAD the Hawks. If Woody won't give him that chance, even when he's playing his best, he should be fired IMMEADIATELY!!!!

There is absolutely no excuse for that coaching move. NONE!!!

I've said before that AJ is the equivalent of Detroit Lion QB Jon Kitna. He's a good team guy. He's a good leader. He can even make a few plays. But at the end of the day, he just doesn't have the talent to effectively lead his team during a game, on a daily basis. And his lack of talent will eventually cause you to either battle to win games, or flat out blow games that you should win.

AJ is nowhere near a good enough of a player, to justify him playing clutch minutes, when he'd been on the bench for over 15 - 20 minutes prior.

To me, Woody has been coaching not to lose, instead of to win, for about 4 weeks now. He's playing the guys that he trusts, regardless of how bad they're playing.

And the fact that he hasn't shaken up the starting lineup ( even by starting Chill at the point if necessary, something he did last January, which worked for a while ), kind of illustrates what his mindset is. He was going to make that group win, no matter what, even if certain people never came through when it counted, or always made some key offensive or defensive mistake.

It's not that these guys don't play hard for him, because they do. It's not that they are trying to get him fired, because they aren't. It's just that Woody is his own worst enemy at times.

PG is our weakest spot, yet, he trusts Lue and AJ unconditionally.

So like with Salim and Shelden, I can't defend the guy anymore.

Fire Woody.

[NJHAWK]

Wow, I have always backed Billy Knight and kind of backed Woodson. However I have pretty much had it as well. This team needs a spark or its gonna die again. If we go on that west coast tripwith Woody and BK makes no move before the deadline THEN WE ARE GONNA COLLAPSE WORSE THAN WE HAVE ALL YEAR. This team lulled after that loss at Portland. Can you imagine when we go out west and kick our heads kicked in and then on top of that WE GET NO HELP BEFORE THE DEADLINE. I think the players will just COLLAPSE if that happens. Just fade away.

[mrhonline]

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To me, Woody has been coaching not to lose, instead of to win, for about 4 weeks now. He's playing the guys that he trusts, regardless of how bad they're playing.

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I completely agree, and I completely understand from Woody's perspective.

You back a guy into a corner, and that's what happens. With such a young team, the AS should've either extended him or fired him last summer.

[Atlantaholic]

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You back a guy into a corner, and that's what happens. With such a young team, the AS should've either extended him or fired him last summer.

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Huh??

Every singe coach in pro sports has absolutely 0 job security regardless of their contract... How would getting a contract extension have changed the way Woody coaches??? If he had had his contract extended and we were playing this way he would still be in the hot seat regardless.

Anyway, Woodson should have been fired last year... it was pretty clear that he had no idea how to coach a pro team by midway of last season.

Obviously the man in charge of decision making needs to get the boot first... It is because of him that Woodson has coached our team for this long, and he definitely should pay the price for the results... I don't know how (if) anybody can support BK in any capacity: his track record is historically poor, and our performance with him has been more of the same, any GM in the league would virtually be an upgrade.

[DJlaysitup]

Is there any way we can trade with PHX to get our 1st rounder back?...maybe they would want Chillz? If so we could tank. Woody and BK know how to tank reasonably well. Then we could get either Thabeet or Hibbert and just make it a 7-year plan.

I know that sounds stupid, but if you think about it, we may need to start semi-over. At least that way we could get a center and JS and Marvin are still very young. We could pick up JJack for cheap and in a year we could have:

JJack/Acie (or reversed)

JJ/Mario

Marvin/JS

JS/Horford

Horford/young 7 foot Center

Not a bad lineup to make a run in 2010 or 2011.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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To me, Woody has been coaching not to lose, instead of to win, for about 4 weeks now. He's playing the guys that he trusts, regardless of how bad they're playing.

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I completely agree, and I completely understand from Woody's perspective.

You back a guy into a corner, and that's what happens. With such a young team, the AS should've either extended him or fired him last summer.

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That's what I forgot to add. I do understand why he does it. He has no job security, not even the infamous "vote of confidence". Because of that, he feels that he can't take any chances with some of these inconsistent players.

Acie's situation is different though. He's the one guy that probably should be starting, or getting major minutes anyway. Yet, Woody doesn't have time to develop a guy . . another guy. But like with Horford, Acie may prove right away to be the best option anyway.

It's all of these end of the game situations that we keep blowing, that gets me. Out of all of the PGs, Acie is the only one who can play solid one-on-one defense, and get to the rim on offense. Acie can't be any worse than Lue or AJ in thoe situatons. He just can't be.

That Cleveland game Friday night pizzed me off, because Lue kept trying to double Lebron, leaving his man wide open for a long jumper. The only way to prevent that ish, is to not have him in the game in the first place.

If they don't fire Woody, BK should at least trade one of AJ or Lue away from here, and force Woody to start Acie. The mandate should come down, just like Memphis did regarding Conley and Damon Stoudamire. Damon might be slightly the better or more consitent player, but he wasn't about to take that Grizzlies team anywhere. And who cares if AJ doesn't like the move. He is NOT the future of this team. He isn't even the present.

Give Acie major minutes, and see if he can help win some of these close games. See if he can get our starters easier shots. If he goes 3 - 13 FG . . so the hell what. Play him anyway. He might go 7 - 13 FG the next game, with 9 assists. Throw him into the water, and see if he can swim.

One of the definitions of insanity, is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result. That's exactly what we seem to do here.

Oh, and as for getting Andre Miller, I don't think there's no way in hell that we get him now, seeing that Philly has won 5 straight, and is percentage points ahead of us for that 8th spot.

[GST]

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You back a guy into a corner, and that's what happens. With such a young team, the AS should've either extended him or fired him last summer.

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It does seem that he is coaching every game as if it were game 7 of the finals. I don't understand why someone with his experience can't see that every regular season game cannot be treated as do or die, there has to be some development time for the bench. It's time for him to go.

[Plainview1981]

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I've done something tonight that I've NEVER done on this site . . and that is actually take a LONG TIME in thinking about what I am going to write. I didn't want to write something all emotional and ish.

I said at the beginning of the season, if the Hawks fell 8 games or more below .500 at ANY point of the season, Woody should be fired.

We're 7 games under ( should be 6 ), and have to play the Lakers in LA to start a 5 game west coast road trip.

It's essentially the ZERO HOUR . . Hawk Armageddon, if you will.

And what's worse about that trip, is that we have 2 consecutive back-to-backs in that stretch. If Bruce Willis doesn't push that button to blow up the asteroid, we might be completely dead after that trip.

That's 4 games in 5 nights folks . . on the (( bleepin )) road.

Yes, we're still in the playoff hunt. But we defnitely have to win at least 2 out of the 5 road games. To go 1 - 4 this time, may mean that we have to play .500 ball the rest of the way, just to have a shot. If this team falls more than 3 games below the 8th spot, I think we might be done . . which would be a damn shame.

The most disturbing thing about this loss, is the decision to go with an ice cold AJ, over Acie, who had been playing the best game of his career up to that point. Up until that time, AJ had played a total of 15 minutes, while Acie had logged 28 minutes.

I understood why he subbed Smoove in for Acie ( even though I would've taken out Lue ). But after Smoove quickly picked up foul #6, and he opted to go with a cold AJ, you knew right then and there that he just couldn't bring himself to trust the rookie down the stretch.

This was the perfect chance to officially pass the PG torch to Acie. The perfect time to see if he could actually lead the Hawks to victory, like he used to do in college. The perfect time to have his confidence sky high.

And Woody (( bleeped )) it up.

There's no other way to describe it. He flat out (( bleeped )) it up.

This team is going nowhere, unless Acie is given the chance to do what he was drafted to do. And that is to LEAD the Hawks. If Woody won't give him that chance, even when he's playing his best, he should be fired IMMEADIATELY!!!!

There is absolutely no excuse for that coaching move. NONE!!!

I've said before that AJ is the equivalent of Detroit Lion QB Jon Kitna. He's a good team guy. He's a good leader. He can even make a few plays. But at the end of the day, he just doesn't have the talent to effectively lead his team during a game, on a daily basis. And his lack of talent will eventually cause you to either battle to win games, or flat out blow games that you should win.

AJ is nowhere near a good enough of a player, to justify him playing clutch minutes, when he'd been on the bench for over 15 - 20 minutes prior.

To me, Woody has been coaching not to lose, instead of to win, for about 4 weeks now. He's playing the guys that he trusts, regardless of how bad they're playing.

And the fact that he hasn't shaken up the starting lineup ( even by starting Chill at the point if necessary, something he did last January, which worked for a while ), kind of illustrates what his mindset is. He was going to make that group win, no matter what, even if certain people never came through when it counted, or always made some key offensive or defensive mistake.

It's not that these guys don't play hard for him, because they do. It's not that they are trying to get him fired, because they aren't. It's just that Woody is his own worst enemy at times.

PG is our weakest spot, yet, he trusts Lue and AJ unconditionally.

So like with Salim and Shelden, I can't defend the guy anymore.

Fire Woody.

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With the lack of draft pick, if the team only ends up winning 33-35 games this year it's a complete waste. A complete. Just over a month ago the team was 3 games over .500 and you figured they might can play .500 ball the rest of the way. However, they're back to where they were before.

I have low predictions for this team, but it doesn't even look like they will win the 37 games I predicted. It's really sad because there is no reason to believe things should get better.

They should trade Marvin. He is like Glenn Robinson. He is one of those players that don't help you unless he is scoring. He's got a clumsy offensive game other than his mid range shot. While he will get to the FT line, you can't count on him because he will get the ball striped or knocked away alot of times. So he is not dependable.

While he is not a bum, he will never live up to his draft position or live up to the players that should have been picked before him.

Billy Knight has failed at an epic level. I don't know if you can fail as a GM anymore than he has. He has failed to get enough talent... Which is obviously linked to his poor drafts which have resulted in a bench full of scrubs.

[Dejay]

While I agree with firing Woodson, BK and the ASG are the ones who need to go first. With the picks he's had, there's no reason why this team is 7 games under .500 heading into the break. No other GM in basketball would've taken the 6th, 2nd, and 5th picks of the draft and 'effed up six ways to Sunday like BK has; even Babs is somewhere shaking his head. We have those picks yet have a 6th man (Childress), a very average SF (MW), and a short, unathletic rebounder who has the words 'journeyman' written all over him (Shelden).

At this point and time, we should be heading towards our 2nd or 3rd straight postseason and talking about how we match up with Detroit, Cleveland, Toronto, Orlando, or Boston in the second round of the playoffs. We should be talking about what deadline deal we can make to fortify the depth on the team so that JJ and Co. will have more in the tank when Pierce, Allen, Labron, Billups, et al come calling. We should be clogging up every Suns board there is and telling them how they got snowed in the JJ deal. We should be singing BK's praises for his 'vision' of what a real NBA team looks like. We should be talking about how good it feels to FINALLY be in the national spotlight once again instead of being the punchline to every sports anchor on ESPN. We should be complaining about how high the tickets are in section 109 because the demand for them is highest its been since the heydays of Nique, Moses, and Doc. Instead we have....

[Lascar78]

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I've done something tonight that I've NEVER done on this site . . and that is actually take a LONG TIME in thinking about what I am going to write. I didn't want to write something all emotional and ish.

I said at the beginning of the season, if the Hawks fell 8 games or more below .500 at ANY point of the season, Woody should be fired.

We're 7 games under ( should be 6 ), and have to play the Lakers in LA to start a 5 game west coast road trip.

It's essentially the ZERO HOUR . . Hawk Armageddon, if you will.

And what's worse about that trip, is that we have 2 consecutive back-to-backs in that stretch. If Bruce Willis doesn't push that button to blow up the asteroid, we might be completely dead after that trip.

That's 4 games in 5 nights folks . . on the (( bleepin )) road.

Yes, we're still in the playoff hunt. But we defnitely have to win at least 2 out of the 5 road games. To go 1 - 4 this time, may mean that we have to play .500 ball the rest of the way, just to have a shot. If this team falls more than 3 games below the 8th spot, I think we might be done . . which would be a damn shame.

The most disturbing thing about this loss, is the decision to go with an ice cold AJ, over Acie, who had been playing the best game of his career up to that point. Up until that time, AJ had played a total of 15 minutes, while Acie had logged 28 minutes.

I understood why he subbed Smoove in for Acie ( even though I would've taken out Lue ). But after Smoove quickly picked up foul #6, and he opted to go with a cold AJ, you knew right then and there that he just couldn't bring himself to trust the rookie down the stretch.

This was the perfect chance to officially pass the PG torch to Acie. The perfect time to see if he could actually lead the Hawks to victory, like he used to do in college. The perfect time to have his confidence sky high.

And Woody (( bleeped )) it up.

There's no other way to describe it. He flat out (( bleeped )) it up.

This team is going nowhere, unless Acie is given the chance to do what he was drafted to do. And that is to LEAD the Hawks. If Woody won't give him that chance, even when he's playing his best, he should be fired IMMEADIATELY!!!!

There is absolutely no excuse for that coaching move. NONE!!!

I've said before that AJ is the equivalent of Detroit Lion QB Jon Kitna. He's a good team guy. He's a good leader. He can even make a few plays. But at the end of the day, he just doesn't have the talent to effectively lead his team during a game, on a daily basis. And his lack of talent will eventually cause you to either battle to win games, or flat out blow games that you should win.

AJ is nowhere near a good enough of a player, to justify him playing clutch minutes, when he'd been on the bench for over 15 - 20 minutes prior.

To me, Woody has been coaching not to lose, instead of to win, for about 4 weeks now. He's playing the guys that he trusts, regardless of how bad they're playing.

And the fact that he hasn't shaken up the starting lineup ( even by starting Chill at the point if necessary, something he did last January, which worked for a while ), kind of illustrates what his mindset is. He was going to make that group win, no matter what, even if certain people never came through when it counted, or always made some key offensive or defensive mistake.

It's not that these guys don't play hard for him, because they do. It's not that they are trying to get him fired, because they aren't. It's just that Woody is his own worst enemy at times.

PG is our weakest spot, yet, he trusts Lue and AJ unconditionally.

So like with Salim and Shelden, I can't defend the guy anymore.

Fire Woody.

Welcome to 2008. I don't know what an arbitrary W-L line has to do with anything. Woodson has been consistently horrible since he's been here. Last night was no different than what we've seen the whole time.

Yet until yesterday you were LOL'ing at us for saying how bad he was, and now you suddenly see the light because of one more loss?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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With the lack of draft pick, if the team only ends up winning 33-35 games this year it's a complete waste. A complete. Just over a month ago the team was 3 games over .500 and you figured they might can play .500 ball the rest of the way. However, they're back to where they were before.

I have low predictions for this team, but it doesn't even look like they will win the 37 games I predicted. It's really sad because there is no reason to believe things should get better.

They should trade Marvin. He is like Glenn Robinson. He is one of those players that don't help you unless he is scoring. He's got a clumsy offensive game other than his mid range shot. While he will get to the FT line, you can't count on him because he will get the ball striped or knocked away alot of times. So he is not dependable.

While he is not a bum, he will never live up to his draft position or live up to the players that should have been picked before him.

Billy Knight has failed at an epic level. I don't know if you can fail as a GM anymore than he has. He has failed to get enough talent... Which is obviously linked to his poor drafts which have resulted in a bench full of scrubs.

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Damn right I figured that they'd play .500 ball the rest of the way. I knew that December was probably the absolute best they could play, and that we were playing a little over our heads. AJ definitely played over his head, which bought him a little more time as the starter.

Hard to argue with the "bench full of scrubs" comment. But with the way Woody's mindset is, I'm not so sure the players we passed over, other than Paul, would be even close here, to what they are now in other places.

- Roy would not be a starter here. He'd be the shooter off the bench. Woody would still opt to go with Lue or AJ at the point. And with Marvin being the #2 pick, he wouldn't even move JJ to the 3, to make room for Roy at the 2. I'm almost convinced of that now. Roy might be getting 20 - 25 minutes a game here tops.

- Iggy or Deng might be starters, but nowhere near the caliber of player that they are now, unless BK drafts Paul the next year at #2. The way they play in their rookie year, would be a huge factor in the direction that BK goes with that pick. So if they were inconsitent or lackluster as rookies, BK probably still takes Marvin.

- BK wanted Monta Ellis, but changed his mind and went with Salim. Ellis is free to just attack, attack, attack with the Warriors. Here, we'd be trying to force feed him into becoming a legit PG, instead of a Barbosa, attack style scorer. And because the kid plays little defense, and can't consistently hit long range jumpers, he could easily be in the same situation that Salim is in. Conversely, a guy like Salim would probably thrive in the Warriors system.

- Deron, I don't know. Paul would have no problem transitioning to the league, but Deron benefitted tremendously from being in the Utah system Deron would still be a major upgrade over what we have now. I just don't know if he'd be as good here, without a Boozer to consistently get the ball to down on the block. With Paul, it wouldn't matter. Even if his assists numbers weren't as high, he'd probably be the 2nd leading scorer on the team.

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It's just unbelievable that this team continues to break down on both the offensive and defensive ends of the court. And that happens because of a lack of leadership on the court from the PG position.

Like I said 2 - 3 weeks ago, my main beef with Lue and AJ, is that they don't play like a PG. They play more like a 2-guard. Our only chance in erasing passing on Paul, is to see if Acie can do it when he plays major minutes. AJ and Lue aren't going to get any better as players.

At one point in that game last night, Marvin was 1 - 11 from the field. But because we were still winning, Woody kept him in. Even if he had a bad matchup, Woody was hell bent on keeping him in the game. Unless his name is JJ, you just can't do that. If Wright or Shelden was the better defensive matchup against Okafor, that's who you have to go with.

The crazy thing about all of this, is that we're about 3 - 5 plays away from actually WINNING 6 of our last 7 games, putting us at 24 - 25, and being in the #6 spot in the East . . with a little room to even mess up on this road trip.

Now, there's no room for error. None.

[frosgrim]

"The crazy thing about all of this, is that we're about 3 - 5 plays away from actually WINNING 6 of our last 7 games, putting us at 24 - 25, and being in the #6 spot in the East . . with a little room to even mess up on this road trip."

This statement is exactly the sort of thing Gearon points to when he supports keeping Woodson and BK. The FACTS are that these plays are not occurring, and they are not occurring consistantly. When you get consistant results then the data indicates that the inputs create the outcomes. Thus, this team is flawed. Again, I am back to leadership. Leadership comes from the top. You can have sargeants helping spread a vision, but in-game leadership must first come from the coach. PGs are the guys who implement the plan. The rest of the team works within the plan as implemented. Hence, change 1 must be Woodson.

Bringing a great PG won't change the way Woodson coaches. Nor would it change the way players are used. Hell, if Kidd was brought in, he would play all 48 minutes because he would be the only guy Woodson trusts. Ahh, I just repeat myself with this stuff, but I am so damn pissed-off it can taste it. We has Hawks fans deserve so much better than the crap that is being presented to us by the ASG. The entire Hawks operation is flawed: marketing, upper level management, BK, Woodson, players, eevn the SCORE KEEPER is an bafoon.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Every singe coach in pro sports has absolutely 0 job security regardless of their contract... How would getting a contract extension have changed the way Woody coaches??? If he had had his contract extended and we were playing this way he would still be in the hot seat regardless.

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That's not true at all. Ivaroni in Memphis definitely has job security. Because of that, it was easy for him and the organization to essentially bench Damon Stoudamire, in favor of developing Conley. The move may have been unfair to Damon, but who the (( bleep )) cares. He's not the future of the Griz at the point, Conley is.

Same goes for Acie here. AJ had his chance to be the floor leader here, and he couldn't get it done on a nightly basis. Part of that is Woody's doing, because he loves Lue so much. But this team doesn't deserve to have 2 lame duck PGs running the show. Let the guy who is supposed to be your damn future, try to run it.

BK bet not bring in some scrub, and say that he's the solution to our PG situation. A Watson or Ridnour is the last thing this team needs now. Either bring in a starter, or don't do ish at all.

The simpliest thing, is to just hand the reigns of the team over to the rookie, and see if he can get it done. Make a commitment to play the kid 30 minutes a night.

Acie has the worst +/- numbers on the team, because he's always in there with guys that can't shoot or make lay-ups. Play him with the (( bleepin )) starters.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You guys were complaining about stupid ish, like 1st half timed substitutions, something that every team in the league does.

- Complaining about taking guys out who were "hot" in the 1st quarter.

- Complaining about Woody sitting Smoove or Horford after they pick up 2 early fouls and not playing them the rest of the 1st half.

( and look what happened when he DID put him back in early. He picked up that 3rd foul, which gave him only 3 fouls to work with in the 2nd half . . which he quickly used up )

- Complaining about Mario West getting more time than Childress, which is lunacy.

- Complaining about Salim and Zaza being in doghouses, when they've been given multiple opportunities to produce.

What Woody did last night with Acie and AJ, was on a whole different level. It was a move that made absolutely no sense. Even if we'd won that game, the move made no sense because he was pretty content to not play AJ for over 2/3rds of the game up until that point.

Our offense isn't going to look good, because we don't have a PG to properly set people up, or a low post option to go to. Woody will routinely leave in the game the guys who are playing the best in the 4th quarter. I understand him leaving Lue in. But bringing in an ice cold AJ was just mind boggling.

Our offense may still struggle with Acie getting minutes, but Woody has to at least try to change things up.

The lineup Woody has to work with is definitely not an ideal one for any coach to work with. But he's not even trying to shake things up with the chemistry of the main guys. I mean, even if you have to move Marvin to the bench in favor of starting Chill at the 3, but still give Marvin his minutes, then do that.

It's just my opinion that the only chance this team has to improve, is if Acie gets a chance to be the main guy at the point. They're not going to make a trade, so that's our only chance to get better in the short term.

If Woody can't even trust Acie when he's playing well, he has to be let go, and the interim coach should be made to play Acie.

The W - L record was a mark I had in mind before the season, that would possibly keep us out of the playoff hunt. 8 games under .500 represents the minimum mark the #8 team will be. It's playoffs or bust for Woody. So if we're 8 games under, it forces the Hawks to at least hold that position and play .500 ball. If he can't hold that line, we have to let him go to see if someone else can't least get us there.

We're not winning a title this year anyway, so it's important to make the playoffs, just to give the players the experience of being in the playoffs. Even if we make the playoffs, Woody should still probably be let go, unless we actually win our 1st round series against Detroit or Boston.

The fans that don't want to make the playoffs, just to get Woody or BK out of here, need to think about the impact not making the playoffs will have on the players . . especially ones like Smoove or JJ. Those 2, more than anybody, need to get in this year. If we don't get in this year, they may see no hope for making it in the future, and may want out.

That's the worst case scenario for this franchise.