This about giving fans a name & saving BK/MW jobs

[Guest Walter]

I don't mind Bibby, he can shoot the 3 & play Pg (both needs), and the risk is a lesser one given Bibby's contract ends after next year, but please people, this deal was done to placate the fans with a name more than a player and save the asses of BK and Woody in the process.

While we may regain the 8th seed in this year's EC playoff DISGrace, we will have blown our wad on Bibby, a marginal improvement, at an astronomical cost, possibly for but one year. It could mean the end of JC (without adequate reimbursement). It could worst of all mean the return of Woody and BK. What it won't mean is any form of contention at any time.

I don't hate it (if it doesn't include a 1st rder from us) but I'm not excited about it either. Oh wait, I will hate it if BK and Woody get extensions without the team dramatically improving.

W

[Vafan]

What is so astronomical about the cost? We gave away trash, got to keep our picks/rookies/youngters, etc. Childress is still our property after this season. Bibby contract is off the books when Childress/JSmoove are unrestricted. So that gives us money to resign them or pursue other options.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

He just needs to vent a little. He's been convinced that BK would never make a move like this.

Hmmmm . . . TNT says that a 2nd round pick is added to the deal too. So i guess we'll have absolutey no draft picks next year. Interestng.

Magic just reinterated kind of what Walter said though, about bringing in a named player.

The TNT guys love the trade.

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

Childress is still our property after this season. Bibby contract is off the books when Childress/JSmoove are unrestricted. So that gives us money to resign them or pursue other options.

---

The contracts of JC and JS come to an end THIS VERY OFF-SEASON!

Let's assume that the deal is as advertised! Let's further assume that JS gets a MAX deal. There will be NO ROOM to resign JC. None! We can't even bluff as we would have to take back = salary in return for a JC sign & trade!

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#1

For JS MAX salary see question number 11

Bibby = $14.5 million

JJ = $14.2 million

JS = $13 million

Speedy = $5.8 million

MW = $5.6 million

ZaZa = $4 million

Horford = $4 million

Acie = $2.1 million

SJ = $0.8 million

That's SIXTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS committed to nine NBA players!

Let's assume that we sign the MINIMUM of allowable players (12) with the remaining 2 aside from Childress averaging $1 million per. That makes SIXTY SIX MILLION dedicated to 11 players excluding Josh Childress!

The NBA salary cap is $55.6 million this year. To project the 2008-2009 cap let us use history.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2516704

Since 2001-2002 the cap has increased from $42.5 to 55.6 millionor $13.1 million. Over 6 years that's an average of roughly $2.2 million annually.

So, let's assume a $57.8 million cap for 2008-2009. WE ARE STILL $6.2 MILLION OVER THE CAP WITH THE BARE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PLAYERS AND WITHOUT CHILDRESS!!!!

The bad part is that we cannot sign and trade Childress even for a pick because we would have to take on equal salary in return!

http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-salary-cap.shtml

Now if the cap doesn't scare you with our ownership certainly the lottery tax will. In 2007-2008 the luxury tax was 67.835 million. Let's assume a similar increase as the cap and predict a luxury tax threshold of $70 million. Childress will certainly get signed for $4 million. The Mid-level EX will be close to $6 million next year after this year's $5.4 million! Childress is certainly getting more than the mid-level EX!

The Bibby deal means we cannot keep Josh Childress. Nor can we sign & trade him for a pick plus contracts because we cannot take on = salary!

We might go over the cap some, but there is NO WAY this ownership goes over the luxury tax threshold where only FIVE teams did last season!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2935728

This deal is like trading JC/SW/expiring contracts for Bibby as there is no way to resign him or get any value for him. While I wouldn't have been against losing JC for a better player (or would have rather included JC as part of a deal to avoid this), Bibby, on the decline, at age 30, averaging 5 APG for years, for $14.5 million next year simply DOES NOT CUT THE MUSTARD!

W

[Vafan]

I thought Childress and JSmoove are restricted free agents this year. All we have to do is make qualifying offers to them. Now if someone makes an offer to them, we have the right to sign or let them go. Am I right????

[SmooveTheFuture]

Quote:

---

I thought Childress and JSmoove are restricted free agents this year. All we have to do is make qualifying offers to them. Now if someone makes an offer to them, we have the right to sign or let them go. Am I right????

---

Yes they are restricted meaning anyone can make an offer to Smoove or Chillz and we have the right to match any offer for them or let them go to the other team. I have no doubt in my Mind Smoove will be here for many years I think Chillz might be used in sign and trade unless we can sign him cheap. Bottom line the Hawks Core of Bibby Joe Smoove Horf and Marvin will be here for the long haul we will build around these guys we have 1 for sure allstar there and about 2 or 3 borderline allstars. We really dont need many more pieces we just build around the players we currently have right now.

[volman]

North Cyde, what did the TNT guys say in particular about the trade? I really wanted to catch their responses, but didn't know the show came on this early.

Last night it was 9:00!! ahh!

[Guest Walter]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I thought Childress and JSmoove are restricted free agents this year. All we have to do is make qualifying offers to them. Now if someone makes an offer to them, we have the right to sign or let them go. Am I right????

---

Yes they are restricted meaning anyone can make an offer to Smoove or Chillz and we have the right to match any offer for them or let them go to the other team. I have no doubt in my Mind Smoove will be here for many years I think Chillz might be used in sign and trade unless we can sign him cheap.

---

I've already demonstrated that we cannot afford him and that we could not afford the equal salary necessary as part of any trade for him. We can't afford him or a trade. We'll already be likely $8 million over the cap! We can't afford it!

Trading for Bibby means JC walks and we get nothing for him. We simply cannot afford signing him O-R trading him.

W

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Childress is still our property after this season. Bibby contract is off the books when Childress/JSmoove are unrestricted. So that gives us money to resign them or pursue other options.

---

The contracts of JC and JS come to an end THIS VERY OFF-SEASON!

Let's assume that the deal is as advertised! Let's further assume that JS gets a MAX deal. There will be NO ROOM to resign JC. None! We can't even bluff as we would have to take back = salary in return for a JC sign & trade!

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#1

For JS MAX salary see question number 11

Bibby = $14.5 million

JJ = $14.2 million

JS = $13 million

Speedy = $5.8 million

MW = $5.6 million

ZaZa = $4 million

Horford = $4 million

Acie = $2.1 million

SJ = $0.8 million

That's SIXTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS committed to nine NBA players!

Let's assume that we sign the MINIMUM of allowable players (12) with the remaining 2 aside from Childress averaging $1 million per. That makes SIXTY SIX MILLION dedicated to 11 players excluding Josh Childress!

The NBA salary cap is $55.6 million this year. To project the 2008-2009 cap let us use history.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2516704

Since 2001-2002 the cap has increased from $42.5 to 55.6 millionor $13.1 million. Over 6 years that's an average of roughly $2.2 million annually.

So, let's assume a $57.8 million cap for 2008-2009. WE ARE STILL $6.2 MILLION OVER THE CAP WITH THE BARE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PLAYERS AND WITHOUT CHILDRESS!!!!

The bad part is that we cannot sign and trade Childress even for a pick because we would have to take on equal salary in return!

http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-salary-cap.shtml

Now if the cap doesn't scare you with our ownership certainly the lottery tax will. In 2007-2008 the luxury tax was 67.835 million. Let's assume a similar increase as the cap and predict a luxury tax threshold of $70 million. Childress will certainly get signed for $4 million. The Mid-level EX will be close to $6 million next year after this year's $5.4 million! Childress is certainly getting more than the mid-level EX!

The Bibby deal means we cannot keep Josh Childress. Nor can we sign & trade him for a pick plus contracts because we cannot take on = salary!

We might go over the cap some, but there is NO WAY this ownership goes over the luxury tax threshold where only FIVE teams did last season!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2935728

This deal is like trading JC/SW/expiring contracts for Bibby as there is no way to resign him or get any value for him. While I wouldn't have been against losing JC for a better player (or would have rather included JC as part of a deal to avoid this), Bibby, on the decline, at age 30, averaging 5 APG for years, for $14.5 million next year simply DOES NOT CUT THE MUSTARD!

W

---

It real doesn't make a difference because we probably would have had to resign a couple of our expirers anyway, for probably more money. Because Bibby's contract comes off the books in 09, we are only in Salary cap hell for a year, and probably in the year where the Hawks will be at the height of popularity. What is going to be sick is that we will have to sign both Marvin and JJ to an extension.

[Wurider05]

I absolutely agree with Walter. That is the point I was made in my thread. It doesn't make any sense.

[DJlaysitup]

Quote:

---

...There will be NO ROOM to resign JC. None! ...W

---

Oh who cares...JC has no jumpshot and is only a peripheral player anyway. The guy can't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle in crunch time. Let JC go make his money elsewhere.

[Vafan]

Who is there to say that we must resign JSmoove to a max contract?? First of all, there is not one team out there that can make a max contract offer to JSmoove. Secondly, who out there is gonna make a huge contract offer to Chillz? If they do, let them have him. He is not that important of a player. Mario can fill his shoes.

[pound4pound]

no chill on the roster next year, this trade gets better and better.

[TheDude]

we gave up talent for better talent...sure the money is there but it's not coming out of my pocket...

the only negative i can see out of this is that this is the only trade we got now and you take away the possibility of a better trade.....but honestly i can't think of one so theres no negatives IMHO

[Admin]

as long as we stay under the luxury tax I think the ASG flat out proved with this deal that they are willing to go over the cap to keep this team together and to put a winner on the floor. I don't see why you think the owners won't be willing to go over the cap because as long as they stay under the luxury tax there won't be any penalties or problems with it and if Bibby gets this team winning games and improves our other players then they will get a much better return on their money spent and in turn should generate more revenue in tickets, merchandise, and we might even get some national tv exposure as well.

[BusBoyIsBack]

By the time Bibby's contract is up Acie Law could be ready to take over the reigns of PG.

You guys are complaining because we may have to lose Josh Childress?

Josh Childress or starting quality PG?

What's more important?

Add in the fact that this could force Woodson to play a player who could emerge like Solomon/Mario West/Salim and you haters will really be out of ammo

[txsting]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Childress is still our property after this season. Bibby contract is off the books when Childress/JSmoove are unrestricted. So that gives us money to resign them or pursue other options.

---

The contracts of JC and JS come to an end THIS VERY OFF-SEASON!

Let's assume that the deal is as advertised! Let's further assume that JS gets a MAX deal. There will be NO ROOM to resign JC. None! We can't even bluff as we would have to take back = salary in return for a JC sign & trade!

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/atlanta.htm

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#1

For JS MAX salary see question number 11

Bibby = $14.5 million

JJ = $14.2 million

JS = $13 million

Speedy = $5.8 million

MW = $5.6 million

ZaZa = $4 million

Horford = $4 million

Acie = $2.1 million

SJ = $0.8 million

That's SIXTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS committed to nine NBA players!

Let's assume that we sign the MINIMUM of allowable players (12) with the remaining 2 aside from Childress averaging $1 million per. That makes SIXTY SIX MILLION dedicated to 11 players excluding Josh Childress!

The NBA salary cap is $55.6 million this year. To project the 2008-2009 cap let us use history.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2516704

Since 2001-2002 the cap has increased from $42.5 to 55.6 millionor $13.1 million. Over 6 years that's an average of roughly $2.2 million annually.

So, let's assume a $57.8 million cap for 2008-2009. WE ARE STILL $6.2 MILLION OVER THE CAP WITH THE BARE MINIMUM NUMBER OF PLAYERS AND WITHOUT CHILDRESS!!!!

The bad part is that we cannot sign and trade Childress even for a pick because we would have to take on equal salary in return!

http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-salary-cap.shtml

Now if the cap doesn't scare you with our ownership certainly the lottery tax will. In 2007-2008 the luxury tax was 67.835 million. Let's assume a similar increase as the cap and predict a luxury tax threshold of $70 million. Childress will certainly get signed for $4 million. The Mid-level EX will be close to $6 million next year after this year's $5.4 million! Childress is certainly getting more than the mid-level EX!

The Bibby deal means we cannot keep Josh Childress. Nor can we sign & trade him for a pick plus contracts because we cannot take on = salary!

We might go over the cap some, but there is NO WAY this ownership goes over the luxury tax threshold where only FIVE teams did last season!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2935728

This deal is like trading JC/SW/expiring contracts for Bibby as there is no way to resign him or get any value for him. While I wouldn't have been against losing JC for a better player (or would have rather included JC as part of a deal to avoid this), Bibby, on the decline, at age 30, averaging 5 APG for years, for $14.5 million next year simply DOES NOT CUT THE MUSTARD!

W

---

Wow Walter. I would like to reply to these points.

1) Childress' Hawks status is undetermined for next season. You do not know he won't be resigned. He might be. He also might go in another deal for a pick and expiring money (if we do it now). It remains to be seen. Both JS and JC CAN be done under the luxury tax, but it will be fairly close, you're right. I wouldn't assume absolute max money for JS.

2) If we knew we couldn't/wouldn't do Childress' deal in the aftermath of this, we would have certainly subbed him into the deal and kept Shelden. That seems plainly obvious to me.

3) Agreed, we will NOT go over the tax under any circumstance. Certainly not for a team as unproven and unaccomplished as this one.

4) If you believe this is a flashy ploy to save jobs, the same could be said about any other deal which would improve the team. This is an example of BK DOING his job, for once, and actually executing something that is likely to add to the win column. You were pretty adamant about not wasting the capital of expiring money that we had - and it was implicit in any such deal that we would a) take back money, and b) improve the team.

5) I also wish we could have landed a long term piece, but I have to believe that wasn't on the table in other talks, or we'd have done that deal instead. Now we still have the flexibility to get that done next year. We'll see, but I doubt BK or ASG really view Bibby as the long term fit here. If they do, that's a completely different story!

[BusBoyIsBack]

People complained that we didn't make a move.

We finally make one and people complain that they are just trying to save their jobs lol.

Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

LOL @ this team maybe only getting the 8th seed. What are we? 2.5 games out of 6th?

Yet of course we could get the 6th seed, compete, and EVEN WIN a series and people would still complain.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Quote:

---

By the time Bibby's contract is up Acie Law could be ready to take over the reigns of PG.

You guys are complaining because we may have to lose Josh Childress?

Josh Childress or starting quality PG?

What's more important?

Add in the fact that this could force Woodson to play a player who could emerge like Solomon/Mario West/Salim and you haters will really be out of ammo

---

I'm ready to sell my brick house when Salim gets extended minutes so he can build a bigger one from scratch.

[Vafan]

Spot on. The current team was going nowhere. This trade makes too much sense. Walter was crying about BK not doing anything to upgrade the team. Now that BK does upgrade the team, he complains that we MIGHT lose Chillz in addition to saving his job. Umm, isn't BK's job is to make the team better????