Who could benefit from this?

[DJlaysitup]

I know I've pretty much said this in responses on other threads...but let me consolidate my opinion. Figuring that this was no accident:

Woody: It makes no sense that Woody would want something like this out there for public consumption just a week or so after he got a new PG. The Hawks with Bibby haven't proven anything yet. One win at home isn't enough to blow your own horn. Plus, how would he know that BK wanted him fired three times (unless he has an owner feeding him info). Even if he did he would surely wait until things were more in his favor to go against BK.

Players: I'm sure they have +Woody and - Woody factions, but could they really be in the know enough to have this kind of information? Unlikely. The only thing I could think of would be a guy like Shelden - who BK could have told that he was trying to get rid of Woody (3-times) to get him out of the "doghouse". Maybe Shelden would say something - but in this manner? He would logically say something to the SAc. press about how happy he was to get away from Woody - not about firing attempts. ?? not a likely scenario.

ASG: Last thing they want is an article like this when they have just gotten a new star PG who will hopefully turn things around and give them a shot at the playoffs. Owners never - EVER - leak dirty laundry...even Belkin wouldn't do that.

BK: The only logical choice. He was likely forced into the Bibby trade because Woody had finally gotten the ASG's ear and they became fed up with BK's B.S. So this is a "get back at you" move by BK. The reason Woody wouldn't do it now is the same reason BK would. Woody wouldn't say anything now because it's too early and he doesn't have enough wins with Bibby to show much. BK - on the other hand - would do it now for the exact same reason. He might see the handwriting on the wall. This team starts winning (at least at home) with a PG that he fought against getting and he (as I mentioned before) is a "dead man walking" with the owners - who finally took Woody's side.

By the way - Oswald didn't kill JFK by himself.

[txsting]

Come to think of it - did anyone see any comments or quotes actually from BK about the trade? I saw lots of Gearon and Woodson and player quotes, but I don't recall hearing from BK. Maybe I forgot...but I'm having trouble finding the original article to verify. Maybe BK wasn't really on board with this idea. Who knows?

[Admin]

I have a hard time believing that BK wasn't wanting this trade because if he really was against his what would have stopped him from including one of our more valuable players in the deal just to spite the owners. I doubt he would have worked so hard to get such a great deal for us unless he really wanted to make the deal.

I don't remember reading any quotes specifically about Bibby from BK, although there was the talk that he was wanting to make a big move which he told Sekou about.

Someone else mentioned that the original article was posted at 2am, maybe Sekou had been drinking or something and posted that up there. Judging by the number of typos and grammatical errors I have seen in his articles before I doubt he has an editor that has to approve of it. DJ were you out late getting hammered with Sekou or something last night?

[AnakinJoe]

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Come to think of it - did anyone see any comments or quotes actually from BK about the trade? I saw lots of Gearon and Woodson and player quotes, but I don't recall hearing from BK. Maybe I forgot...but I'm having trouble finding the original article to verify. Maybe BK wasn't really on board with this idea. Who knows?

I heard BK interviewed on 790 The Zone after the trade and he was almost giddy. Talked at length how this would help the team and specifically Acie Law. Talked glowingly about Bibby as a person and player. Talked about acquiring someone to steady the team's wildly inconsistent (that's the term he used, wildly inconsistent) ways, without having to trade someone from their core nucleus. Sorry, but BK was clearly the man behind the trade.

I think BK leaked the story because he (and Woody) are likely both gone at the end of the season. He was probably told that the team's lack of performance will force the owners to move in a different direction. And he probably thought, "well if you had replaced this horrific coach any of the 3 times I suggested, maybe this team would be closer to a playoff birth".

I agree BK is probably behind the story. But I can't buy that the owners "forced him" to spend money or bring in a vet. If anyone remembers his quotes after we won the 3rd and 11th picks, he all but flat out said that he preferred to bring in at last 1 veteran with 1 (or both) of the picks. He seemed pretty emphatic that the team needed a productive vet. But as I often say, follow the money. BK doesn't benefit from 8 players (at start of season) on their rookie contracts. BK doesn't benefit from a bottom 5 payroll. BK doesn't benefit from keeping an ineffective head coach and not having to pay for an interim coach (in addition to the remainder of Woody's salary). BK doesn't benefit from spending only $9M in free agency in 2 seasons. Follow the money and it leads to the ASG.

[TroyMcClure]

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Come to think of it - did anyone see any comments or quotes actually from BK about the trade? I saw lots of Gearon and Woodson and player quotes, but I don't recall hearing from BK. Maybe I forgot...but I'm having trouble finding the original article to verify. Maybe BK wasn't really on board with this idea. Who knows?

It could be BK regardless of him being for or against the trade. In his mind, this may make him look better to the next team he steals from. You know, he tried. They wouldn't let him. That's his angle. Given what I know about Woody's coaching abilities and the ASG, I have to lean with BK, I think. I haven't looked into the whole deal, but that's my first reaction.

[DJlaysitup]

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...DJ were you out late getting hammered with Sekou or something last night?

While I do have a fairly long history of "getting hammered"...no...I was not.

My guess...just my guess...is that BK was over-ruled on this trade and is now seething that his genius is no longer appreciated. If you look at it logically...it does seem to be the "Occam's Razor". Once you rule out the other possibilities - the most obvious answer is probably right.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I know I've pretty much said this in responses on other threads...but let me consolidate my opinion. Figuring that this was no accident:

Woody: It makes no sense that Woody would want something like this out there for public consumption just a week or so after he got a new PG. The Hawks with Bibby haven't proven anything yet. One win at home isn't enough to blow your own horn. Plus, how would he know that BK wanted him fired three times (unless he has an owner feeding him info). Even if he did he would surely wait until things were more in his favor to go against BK.

Players: I'm sure they have +Woody and - Woody factions, but could they really be in the know enough to have this kind of information? Unlikely. The only thing I could think of would be a guy like Shelden - who BK could have told that he was trying to get rid of Woody (3-times) to get him out of the "doghouse". Maybe Shelden would say something - but in this manner? He would logically say something to the SAc. press about how happy he was to get away from Woody - not about firing attempts. ?? not a likely scenario.

ASG: Last thing they want is an article like this when they have just gotten a new star PG who will hopefully turn things around and give them a shot at the playoffs. Owners never - EVER - leak dirty laundry...even Belkin wouldn't do that.

BK: The only logical choice. He was likely forced into the Bibby trade because Woody had finally gotten the ASG's ear and they became fed up with BK's B.S. So this is a "get back at you" move by BK. The reason Woody wouldn't do it now is the same reason BK would. Woody wouldn't say anything now because it's too early and he doesn't have enough wins with Bibby to show much. BK - on the other hand - would do it now for the exact same reason. He might see the handwriting on the wall. This team starts winning (at least at home) with a PG that he fought against getting and he (as I mentioned before) is a "dead man walking" with the owners - who finally took Woody's side.

By the way - Oswald didn't kill JFK by himself.

[Admin]

The question is if BK didn't approve of the trade who could have possibly orchestrated a trade from our side, much less one that robbed the Kings BK style? I'm not buying that he was against the trade and from what I can remember he really liked Bibby back in Vancouver but he felt that Jason Williams was a better fit for his team so maybe he has been trying to get him for a while. He does tend to show a lot of love for former players.

[DJlaysitup]

Lotsa possibilities - BK may have been an unwilling player - or he may have been bypassed. It seems to me that the bypass situation might be the strongest. The ASG is notorious. Maybe Woody got a few of their ears. Please understand - I'm no Woody fan...but there is nothing worse IMO than hiring a coach to coach one way - then getting players that logically would naturally play another way.

That's why I couldn't understand the Falcons bringing in Mora and the "West Coast" offense for MV7 to run??????????????? Insanity.

[DJ_Money]

Question: Since Belkin was removed, who is serving as our rep on the Board of Governors?

I believe it's Gearon, but does anyone know for certain?

[Plainview1981]

I have a hard time believing that Billy would sell his friend out just because both might be fired after the season.

[DrReality]

A couple of thoughts:

First, the front office guy that 'resigned' about six weeks ago. Scoop was that he was the face of the franchise, but the owners "wanted to get more involved in the franchise." He could have some motivation to leak this. But the question is whether he would have access to what had happened.

And I wonder if JJ or others, who seem to have been dissatisfied with Woody might have leaked it? I don't think that Woody had too many people on his side. But it now raises the question what do they do with this quagmire?

FUBAR. From the movie Private Ryan.

F***ed up beyond all recognition.

[Admin]

I don't think it would be possible to pull of a trade at all, let alone a great trade, without the GM. I do agree that having a coach that doesn't fit the style of players seems odd but Woody might have promised the moon when he got the job you never know. He may have thought that he was that type of coach but isn't or can't be. Then again it might be a lack of a real PG that has kept him from the running style that we should employ. I doubt Woody is going anywhere during the season unless we really don't turn things around so we'll see how the team plays now that we are done with the west coast trip and with Bibby running the show.

[Guest Walter]

...or at least part of it. Bernie Mullin was fired and gone before the most recent (and only Gearon confirmed) occasion. The Spirit gain nothing from this and risk yet another ownership division. Lesser players like 'Nique may not have even been in on the decision, don't want to get inbetween in thsi situation, and I believe Sekou doesn't print this without direct, DIRECT confirmation.

I think it simply boils down to BK being marginalized and likely being told that this was his last round (not being extended at seasons end). He decided to go out fighting as ugly as it is.

Walter

[TroyMcClure]

That's pretty much what I'm saying, too. It's working. I have to side with BK, if this is true. What do you do when the owners stop you from doing your job the way you see fit? We all know Woody deserved to be gone long ago. It's almost refreshing to find that BK actually wanted him gone.

[frosgrim]

From what I heard this morning on the drive in, the story has been taken down. If it is true that Sekou was drunk or under the influence of something when he wrote it, then we should not believe it in its entirity. However, where there is smoke there is fire.

As for who is the source of the information. It has to be BK.

As for who pulled off the Bibby trade. Two possibilities: BK and Gearon Sr. Sr. is a former Hawks GM. His son believes he's a baskeball genious. Thus, one of the Gearon's could have pulled this off. I wonder if the ASG is aiming to be owner/coaches...

I for one, have had it with Gearon Jr. He's an ass. Arrogant, self-agrandizing, and believes in his own infalibility. Its no wonder that Gearon and Belkin hate each other they both have exactly the same personalities.

It is now past time for the NBA and the NHL to step and and end this travesty of ownership.

[Atlantaholic]

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From what I heard this morning on the drive in, the story has been taken down. If it is true that Sekou was drunk or under the influence of something when he wrote it, then we should not believe it in its entirity. However, where there is smoke there is fire.

As for who is the source of the information. It has to be BK.

As for who pulled off the Bibby trade. Two possibilities: BK and Gearon Sr. Sr. is a former Hawks GM. His son believes he's a baskeball genious. Thus, one of the Gearon's could have pulled this off. I wonder if the ASG is aiming to be owner/coaches...

I for one, have had it with Gearon Jr. He's an ass. Arrogant, self-agrandizing, and believes in his own infalibility. Its no wonder that Gearon and Belkin hate each other they both have exactly the same personalities.

It is now past time for the NBA and the NHL to step and and end this travesty of ownership.

Yeah right...

The same people that will let the 41 year old championship winning Supersonics to bolt to Oklahoma for no reason whatsoever, will intervene because the Hawks won't fire their coach.

This will NEVER, EVER happen. Until the owners sell the team through their own volition, we are stuck in hell fellas.

[Guest Walter]

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That's pretty much what I'm saying, too. It's working. I have to side with BK, if this is true. What do you do when the owners stop you from doing your job the way you see fit? We all know Woody deserved to be gone long ago. It's almost refreshing to find that BK actually wanted him gone.

I have to side with firing both BK and Woody, period.

I agree that BK's ability to properly determine that Woodson needed to be fired indicates the minimum a GM should be able to do. Woody has been lost since the start and has cost us more games than he's won for us for at least 2 years. I would argue that the ASG probably agrees with him but either believes that Woody should be fired in the offseason or more likely both BK and Woody are equally culpable and in a sense tied at the hip and should both be fired (still preferring the offseason). Unlikely but perhaps they have a candidate like Larry Brown who would want personel control.

I'd prefer it happen right now so that we have players playing under a new coach and we can better evaluate them AND we have a better evaluator (not BK), one without ego involved in the equation of whether a player should or shouldn't be a part of this rebuild. I don't like it but I can understand the ASG wanting to wait until the offseason for these moves.

W

[Atlantaholic]

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That's pretty much what I'm saying, too. It's working. I have to side with BK, if this is true. What do you do when the owners stop you from doing your job the way you see fit? We all know Woody deserved to be gone long ago. It's almost refreshing to find that BK actually wanted him gone.

I have to side with firing both BK and Woody, period.

I agree that BK's ability to properly determine that Woodson needed to be fired indicates the minimum a GM should be able to do. Woody has been lost since the start and has cost us more games than he's won for us for at least 2 years. I would argue that the ASG probably agrees with him but either believes that Woody should be fired in the offseason or more likely both BK and Woody are equally culpable and in a sense tied at the hip and should both be fired (still preferring the offseason). Unlikely but perhaps they have a candidate like Larry Brown who would want personel control.

I'd prefer it happen right now so that we have players playing under a new coach and we can better evaluate them AND we have a better evaluator (not BK), one without ego involved in the equation of whether a player should or shouldn't be a part of this rebuild. I don't like it but I can understand the ASG wanting to wait until the offseason for these moves.

W

I agree that it is understandable that they wouldn't want to fire the coach right now, seeing as how we are in the middle of a "playoff race" and there are so few games left.

However, this move should probably have happened after our inexplicable January slide... and probably at the end of last year.

[DrReality]

The owners have come out and said they want to be more involved. They are on the record and it has brought about changes. Thus it stands to reason that BK has been undermined or cut off at the knees. Seems very likely they are both gone.

The owners can b.s. the press and fans, but at some point they have to be accountalbe to their peers: the other owners. And they look like a bunch of school boys.