Billy Knight extended?

[Lascar78]

Some of Billy's successes in drafting do make up for some of his mistakes. I think that when you look at him overall, he is a decent drafter. He has drafted one bust (shelden), and has made one HUGE mistake (Marvin over the PG's, even though he's a nice player).

If you look at his important picks:

-Childress (ok)

-Smith (great)

-Marvin (huge mistake as a pick)

-Salim (ok)

-Shelden (inexcusable bust)

-Horford (great)

-Law (ok)

People try to diminish his great picks, but I don't. If Smith was such an obvious pick, why didn't he go at 16, 15, 14, 13 ... Similarly the Horford pick might seem obvious, but why didn't Seattle take him at 2? Also we could have easily gone for need rather than BPA, as I would have done at the time. You also can't underestimate how long we will pay for the Marvin pick, and just how bad the Shelden pick was.

So overall I'd say he's an average drafter. And he does pretty good in trades.

HOWEVER, he is incapable of building a cohesive team. He has never done it in his career. Yes you got the best player available in Horford, now you're left with 4 of our best 6 players being forwards. The natural positions are CLEARLY:

PG: Bibby,Law

AG: Joe

SF: Chill, Marvin

PF: Smith, Horford

C: N/A

You can play Horford out of position and he'll do ok, but you'll never truly let him shine. Now you're left with a dilemma, and in the long run, trades are going to have to be made for us to truly be successful. 2 of our top 3 are PF's. That was my contention pre-draft and I think it's been confirmed. And I have zero faith in BK to get those trades done.

BK has done an OK job in getting talent, but we need a pro in here who can transform this lump of talent into a balanced roster.

[NJHAWK]

Billy Knight is a good gm and deserves to be extended. I wish the owners would let him make the crucial choices instead of getting in the way. I mean Woody and Bk were buddies and BK was ready to fire Woody, so what does that tell you.

[coachx]

I pretty much agree with your assesment.

One thing I do not not hold against BK that much is the inability to get a true center. We have NEVER had the chance to draft a real center in the draft that panned out except for Bynum when we had the #2 pick. Bynum fell to the 20's where the Lakers took him. Since 20 other GMs passed on Bynum too I can't really hold that one against BK.

Center is the hardest position to fill and most of the time it takers lottery luck to get the really good ones. (Yao, Ewing, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, O'Neal, Howard) - Pretty much all of the dominant centers in the modern era were the #1 pick over all and you had to be lucky to get the #1 pick. (The Spurs got lucky twice). Even Okefor went #2 right behind Howard.

Or a past player does his old franchise a "favor" (Celtics / McHale / Garnette connection) / (Lakers / West/ Gasol connection.)

When there is a good 7 footer available BK will draft them (he drafted Gasol). Since coming to ATL, BK has had bad luck in terms of NO talented centers available at his draft spot.

[exodus]

The problem is that we need star power here. So far BK has passed up stars but hasn't drafted any. Maybe Smith has a chance to be one but that's pretty much it. Horford looks like a good player but i don't see anything about him that makes me think he will be a star.

I think BK will ultimately be remembered for the guys he passed up in the draft.

[LOL_Hawks]

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keeping bk is fine

he has assembled a team that most would trade for in a heartbeat when considering the future

sure it won't now or in the next few years, but boston/detroit/spurs are in the way now anyway, and should be more on the decline in 3 years while teams like us/portland/toronto/orlando will be on the rise as the new elite teams

however, under no circumstances should they re-sign woody...let him go to indy this summer and get a real coach in here

QFT. The main thing is to get rid of Woody, not Knight. BK can stay, IMO. He absolved himself with the JJ trade, Acie & Horford, & the Bibby trade. He's proven that he actually wants to win, unlike the head coach and the AS.

[mrhonline]

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LOL so do you think the Hawks have any chance to win 50 next year?

Nope, but he dug his own grave.

[coachx]

The Hawks should pass around "offering plates" at home games and call it the: "Sign a FA Center fund.

100% of the proceeds go to signing a FA center and paying the luxury tax it may take.

Heck at this point I would give up Marvin's potential for Diop staight up in a trade and let some catch and shoot guy out of the D league spread the floor like Marvin does for us now on offense (but have SOME 3 point touch, of course). (That D leaguer we signed for the rest of the year could score 12 ppg in that role with his shooting touch and range). The minutes we lose with Marvin at PF is made up with Horford being able to shift over to PF much more.

I am letting emotions speak above but seriously......The longer Marvin goes without reaching his potential the closer he comes to becoming another young Tim Thomas / (Just a average career SF who waisted loads of offensive potential).

I hope Marvin goes for 30 tonight and make me eat crow......but in 2.75 seasons Marvin has scored over 30 points only once. I think we should have seem more flashes by now....

When we were rolling in December Marvin was playing agressive, driving in the paint and shooting loads of free throws. We need that Marvin back b/c the Marvin we have seen lately is not cutting it. Maybe he would be more assertive off the bench ? Why not try it Woody.......stir the damn pot for once !

[OGRat]

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I believe it was supposed to be a 5-yr. plan, with the goal being 50 wins next season. Anything less, and he's gone next season.

Woodson's time is up, Knight will probably get one more year.

Didn't BK come out at the beginning of the season and say that the rebuilding was done?

I am not a fan of the concept of rebuilding. I more favor an ongoing management approach similar to what Detroit has used. They drafted Milicic with plans for the future, but they were not planning to suck until he was ready. The draft was not the only source of talent. They used FA'cy and trades to fill their team's holes.

[Lascar78]

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I pretty much agree with your assesment.

One thing I do not not hold against BK that much is the inability to get a true center. We have NEVER had the chance to draft a real center in the draft that panned out except for Bynum when we had the #2 pick. Bynum fell to the 20's where the Lakers took him. Since 20 other GMs passed on Bynum too I can't really hold that one against BK.

Center is the hardest position to fill and most of the time it takers lottery luck to get the really good ones. (Yao, Ewing, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, O'Neal, Howard) - Pretty much all of the dominant centers in the modern era were the #1 pick over all and you had to be lucky to get the #1 pick. (The Spurs got lucky twice). Even Okefor went #2 right behind Howard.

Or a past player does his old franchise a "favor" (Celtics / McHale / Garnette connection) / (Lakers / West/ Gasol connection.)

When there is a good 7 footer available BK will draft them (he drafted Gasol). Since coming to ATL, BK has had bad luck in terms of NO talented centers available at his draft spot.

He has not had a chance to draft a center, but he has had many a chance to trade for centers. Not hall of famers, but decent, legit 7 footers.

[exodus]

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The Hawks should pass around "offering plates" at home games and call it the: "Sign a FA Center fund.

100% of the proceeds go to signing a FA center and paying the luxury tax it may take.

Heck at this point I would give up Marvin's potential for Diop staight up in a trade and let some catch and shoot guy out of the D league spread the floor like Marvin does for us now on offense (but have SOME 3 point touch, of course). (That D leaguer we signed for the rest of the year could score 12 ppg in that role with his shooting touch and range). The minutes we lose with Marvin at PF is made up with Horford being able to shift over to PF much more.

I am letting emotions speak above but seriously......The longer Marvin goes without reaching his potential the closer he comes to becoming another young Tim Thomas / (Just a average career SF who waisted loads of offensive potential).

I hope Marvin goes for 30 tonight and make me eat crow......but in 2.75 seasons Marvin has scored over 30 points only once. I think we should have seem more flashes by now....

Frankly i don't know what to think about Marvin. On the one hand i am definitely not a fan but at the same time i am reluctant to let him go.

The people in GS hated Dunleavy. he didn't do crap there. Now he is averaging 18 ppg shooting 48%, 40% from 3.

Marvin is starting to try to finish around the rim by shooting over people rather than diving into them. He shouldn't be trying to initiate contact he should be avoiding it and i think he is starting to realize that.

Plus he has shown that he can actually play D.

Ultimately his jumper is going to be the key to his game. His shot seems to be either hot or cold. There isn't a lot of in between. He has to be more consistent.

But the key is getting 3 point range. he hasnt shown it at all so far but if guys like Harrington and Bowen can become 3 pt shooters i think there is still hope for Marvin.

[Packfill]

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I pretty much agree with your assesment.

One thing I do not not hold against BK that much is the inability to get a true center. We have NEVER had the chance to draft a real center in the draft that panned out except for Bynum when we had the #2 pick. Bynum fell to the 20's where the Lakers took him. Since 20 other GMs passed on Bynum too I can't really hold that one against BK.

Center is the hardest position to fill and most of the time it takers lottery luck to get the really good ones. (Yao, Ewing, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, O'Neal, Howard) - Pretty much all of the dominant centers in the modern era were the #1 pick over all and you had to be lucky to get the #1 pick. (The Spurs got lucky twice). Even Okefor went #2 right behind Howard.

Or a past player does his old franchise a "favor" (Celtics / McHale / Garnette connection) / (Lakers / West/ Gasol connection.)

When there is a good 7 footer available BK will draft them (he drafted Gasol). Since coming to ATL, BK has had bad luck in terms of NO talented centers available at his draft spot.

Bynum was the 10th pick, not 20-something.

And Billy had plenty of chances to draft at least a capable back-up big man. In 2004 he could have drafted Biedrins instead of Childress. The Salim pick in 2005 could have easily been Ronny Turiaf or Andre Blatche. The Solomon Jones pick in 2006 could have been Craig Smith, Paul Milsap or Leon Powe, all contributors on their respective teams.

[Packfill]

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keeping bk is fine

he has assembled a team that most would trade for in a heartbeat when considering the future

sure it won't now or in the next few years, but boston/detroit/spurs are in the way now anyway, and should be more on the decline in 3 years while teams like us/portland/toronto/orlando will be on the rise as the new elite teams

however, under no circumstances should they re-sign woody...let him go to indy this summer and get a real coach in here

QFT. The main thing is to get rid of Woody, not Knight. BK can stay, IMO. He absolved himself with the JJ trade, Acie & Horford, & the Bibby trade. He's proven that he actually wants to win, unlike the head coach and the AS.

do you honestly trust BK to pick a good coach? He is the one that hired Woody after all. His other coaching hire in his previous stint as GM, before he was fired, was Sidney Lowe!!!! The dude has hired two of the worst coaches of all time. Why give him a chance to make it three of the worst?

[jhay610]

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The longer Marvin goes without reaching his potential the closer he comes to becoming another young Tim Thomas

Marvin doesn't have nearly the explosiveness or the range that Tim Thomas does, or had at the same point in their careers....

[Dexmethylphenidate]

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I believe it was supposed to be a 5-yr. plan, with the goal being 50 wins next season. Anything less, and he's gone next season.

Woodson's time is up, Knight will probably get one more year.

LOL so do you think the Hawks have any chance to win 50 next year?

They probably get 50 this yr with a better coach (stan van gundy).

[coachx]

He has not had a chance to draft a center, but he has had many a chance to trade for centers. Not hall of famers, but decent, legit 7 footers.

I know he made an offer to Dampier as a FA but Dampier used ATL (like most people) as a bargaining chip to drive up their contract amnount.

Called Curry in for a work out but did not like him (probably a good call).

Did the Hornets sign Tyson Chandler or trade for him ? If they signed him was their a bidding war ? A move should have made for Chandler (if it was not attempted).

Gasol could have been had for the #3, #11, and filler. (Bad move in my opinion)

or

Gasol may have been able to be had for Josh Smith/ filler (but we will never know for sure)

Stoudemire could have been had for #3, #11, and a filler but reportedly it was Phoneix who squashed the deal and not Atlanta

Dalembert ? Who knows if any offers were ever on the table and who was invlolved.

No telling what else we don't know about possible deals.

However the moves for Gasol seem questionable at best. While Gasol is a legit 7 footer I don't know if he could guard the Center position any better then Horford does. So is Horford a better help defender to play beside Gasol or is Smith a better compliment to Gasol ?

Lets face it......Jerry West fondness to the Lakers (even if subconscious) played a part in that Gasol trade discount / like wise with McHale in Boston for Garnett. How could you not be consciously or subconsciously in favor of a team you played your entire HOF career for and then was the GM who built the Kobe / Shaq dynasty ?

As season ticket holder....your given some info the rest of us don't get with those walk throughs with BK each year. Anything you want to share ?

[coachx]

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The longer Marvin goes without reaching his potential the closer he comes to becoming another young Tim Thomas

Marvin doesn't have nearly the explosiveness or the range that Tim Thomas does, or had at the same point in their careers....

Your right and that is what scares me.

[Kimsey]

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I pretty much agree with your assesment.

One thing I do not not hold against BK that much is the inability to get a true center. We have NEVER had the chance to draft a real center in the draft that panned out except for Bynum when we had the #2 pick. Bynum fell to the 20's where the Lakers took him. Since 20 other GMs passed on Bynum too I can't really hold that one against BK.

Center is the hardest position to fill and most of the time it takers lottery luck to get the really good ones. (Yao, Ewing, Hakeem, Duncan, Robinson, O'Neal, Howard) - Pretty much all of the dominant centers in the modern era were the #1 pick over all and you had to be lucky to get the #1 pick. (The Spurs got lucky twice). Even Okefor went #2 right behind Howard.

Or a past player does his old franchise a "favor" (Celtics / McHale / Garnette connection) / (Lakers / West/ Gasol connection.)

When there is a good 7 footer available BK will draft them (he drafted Gasol). Since coming to ATL, BK has had bad luck in terms of NO talented centers available at his draft spot.

Bynum was the 10th pick, not 20-something.

And Billy had plenty of chances to draft at least a capable back-up big man. In 2004 he could have drafted Biedrins instead of Childress. The Salim pick in 2005 could have easily been Ronny Turiaf or Andre Blatche. The Solomon Jones pick in 2006 could have been Craig Smith, Paul Milsap or Leon Powe, all contributors on their respective teams.

Yeah Bynum was the 10th pick and the youngest player to ever be drafted with almost unlimited potential factor. I thought we had the choice to trade #2 for #5 and #13 from Charlotte because they apparently fancied Marvin Williams. With the 5th pick it would've been a huge reach for Bynum but beggars can't be choosers regarding the Hawks and a big.

All his 2nd round choices have been busts including Salim who is the worst guard to come out of Arizona that produces nothing but nba talent (except Miles Simon who I don't think was drafted) at the guard position. Solomon who I feel can be a player can't even crack two minutes a game even when trading all his competition for playing time. What is up with that?

Travis Hansen? Donta Smith?

Biendris and Smith in 04 could have changed the landscape of the east.

[coachx]

Good call on Bedrinas instead of Chills. I forgot all about him. When was Bedrinas drafted ?

Bynum went #10 (thanks for the correction). I just recalled alot of people calling Mitch Kupcheck (Sp?) a dope for that pick.......He really showed them !

BK has missed some diamonds in the rough in the 2nd round. At the time he picked Salim I loved it. He was such a baller at Arizona I really thought he was the 2nd coming of Vinny "The Microwave" Johnson.

When we picked Chills over Deng and Iguadola I was happy. Deng was super raw coming out as a freshman from Duke and it was too big a risk to me. Iguadola seemed like a great athelete with not enough basketball skill for the NBA in my eyes. Mean while, Chills lead his Stanford team to a 20 - 0 start and was the leader with loads of basketball IQ. I thought we were getting a Tayshon Prince with handles.............I was way wrong ! But that is why I'm not paid the big bucks.

Solomon Jones could have turned out like Blatche'. Same measurements and similar skill set coming out of college. Solomon played vs. good competition in the Big East.

The draft is far from an exact science.......especially with 2nd round picks, high schoolers, and players from over seas......................Its a tough job. Now with high schoolers out of the equation at least it has gotten a little easier.

[AHF]

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The best thing for the ASG to do is to allow the GM to do their jobs (whoever that ends up being.)

Agreed. Let the GM do the cooking and if you don't like what you are being served fire him and hire a new chef. Don't start trying to micromanage your talent personnel.

[drzachary]

Forcing BK to keep Woodson is like giving your chef a Tastybake oven.