Woody finally has the right idea-bench marvin

[pimp]

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. . . that INSISTED that Woody run MORE of the offense through Marvin back in December, when he was our most consistent offensive player?

Back in November, people wanted Smoove traded.

In December, everything was all good.

In January, JJ was on the Hawksquawk trading block.

February, it was Childress.

Now that March is here, it's Marvin's turn to feel the ire of the Squawk.

I guess Bibby will be the target in April.

It would be better if people were more like me, and just hate the same players all year long.

[Kimsey]

I think Portland will.

With Oden and Aldrich and LaFrentz, I think PTL would consider trading Pryz (big contract) for Marvin who gives them exactly what they need... A Sf who can spread the floor. What we need from the transaction is a big and their First rounder.

Us taking Pryz is a good deal if we can add in the right pieces to make it happen. Right now, I have Marvin/Solo going for Pryz/1st.

There's a lot of 7 footers in this draft. PTL's first is mid first round so there's hope!

Marvin is from close to PTL so maybe they'd go for this deal.

No way portland does that, they are building a championship team their real soon. All they need is a backup for Roy. Kyle Weaver or Chris Douglas Roberts are both excellent shooting guards at the 13 or 14th pick. They already have Outlaw and James Jones no need for MW.

[Admin]

There isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't trade for Marvin and if you think for a second that we couldn't get more than Pryz you much be nuts. When Marvin was drafted all of the experts said he was a 3-5 year project and this is year 3 and before he got injured he was having a hell of a season. I believe he is still the youngest player on the team and being so young he is prone to making mistakes and having lapses in his concentration.

The funny part about all of this is that when Marvin does finally start playing well consistently all of you will be praising him.

[jhay610]

I like Marvin's game fine, he will be a solid pro for a long time, but we have too many guys at his position and if we can make a trade that gets Al out of the 5 I'm all for it.

I'm not saying Pryz is a better player than Marv but provided we can resign Chill/Smoove we will need to shop him for another big. Didn't you say on another thread that the best we could get for marv was a late 2nd rounder? Now you are upset about trade talk and saying he's worth more?

Marv is a project but the things he will get better at are his decision-making, maybe extending his range out to 3 and, best case scenario, figuring out a way to finish through contact. He will never get that much quicker, won't get much more explosive, his feet won't get lighter, so to speak, and he will never get less awkward. He's knees and elbows everywhere when he drives.

Watching him in the first half the other night I almost fell out of my chair laughing when he tripped on a drive and then lost his feet when he stepped on the ball.

Of course he has a higher ceiling than Pryz but it's not that high. I can't say I'd be happy with a Marvin/Pryz swap but Billy's master plan has come together and low and behold, we don't have anyone that can contain legit centers in this league.

[Diesel]

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There isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't trade for Marvin and if you think for a second that we couldn't get more than Pryz you much be nuts. When Marvin was drafted all of the experts said he was a 3-5 year project and this is year 3 and before he got injured he was having a hell of a season. I believe he is still the youngest player on the team and being so young he is prone to making mistakes and having lapses in his concentration.

The funny part about all of this is that when Marvin does finally start playing well consistently all of you will be praising him.

Everything about drafting Marvin was wrong.

Since the coming up of Smoove and the drafting or ROY Horford, keeping Marvin doesn't make a lot of sense if we can get a C.

Here's MW's problem.

He's not a bigger impact than Smoove.

He's not as productive as Chillz.

He's not worth playing Horf out of the position that Horf could probably be multiple time allstar.

People want to deny the tug of war that has always been, but it's there...

Marvin vs. Smoove.

Since we drafted Marvin, this has been the problem.

The only way we can solve this log jam is:

1. Marvin goes.

2. Smoove goes.

3. Marvin plays off the bench.

The real pressure being applied is Horf.

Horf plays better as PF. It's evident when you watch him play beside young vlade. All Hawks fans drool at the thought of getting a C better than Zaza. If we could get a LaMarcus Aldridge... It's a rap! If we can get a Kaman... It's a rap. If we can get a Pryz... It's prolly a rap.

So what about Marvin.

He's a good shooter, but he doesn't create for himself. He's not a superstar and all we can do is the same thing that people who waited for Tim Thomas to come out of his shell did. Just wait for him to come out while his game never really changed.

Now we could trade Smoove and become more traditional with a Sf who can shoot from distance... however, we'd lose one of the biggest impact players in the league.

So here's Diesel's hope.

I hope Ted Turner becomes part of our ownership soon... Buy out Belkin... and pay for Smoove to stay. What we do with Marvin would then be a basketball decision to be made by the coach/GM team.

[Diesel]

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I like Marvin's game fine, he will be a solid pro for a long time, but we have too many guys at his position and if we can make a trade that gets Al out of the 5 I'm all for it.

I'm not saying Pryz is a better player than Marv but provided we can resign Chill/Smoove we will need to shop him for another big. Didn't you say on another thread that the best we could get for marv was a late 2nd rounder? Now you are upset about trade talk and saying he's worth more?

Marv is a project but the things he will get better at are his decision-making, maybe extending his range out to 3 and, best case scenario, figuring out a way to finish through contact. He will never get that much quicker, won't get much more explosive, his feet won't get lighter, so to speak, and he will never get less awkward. He's knees and elbows everywhere when he drives.

Watching him in the first half the other night I almost fell out of my chair laughing when he tripped on a drive and then lost his feet when he stepped on the ball.

Of course he has a higher ceiling than Pryz but it's not that high. I can't say I'd be happy with a Marvin/Pryz swap but Billy's master plan has come together and low and behold, we don't have anyone that can contain legit centers in this league.

I'd happily do the Marvin/Pryz swap if we get the midround pick with it.

Let's be honest.

Pryz is overpaid and old.

He don't have much more.

Marvin is what 22?

Marvin scores 3 times more than any Sf they have right now.

Plus he has perfect size for the position.

[Admin]

I was being 100% sarcastic with that response as to what we can get for Marvin.

It's just crazy to me that you guys don't think we can get more for a 22 year old SF with a great mid range game who is only at the beginning of when his production was projected to be. If he is still this same player after 5 years then talk to me about trading him but the fact is that he has gotten better every year and you don't throw away players like that.

[jhay610]

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I was being 100% sarcastic with that response as to what we can get for Marvin.

Yeah I picked up on that after revisiting that thread. My bad on that. I still dont see an early draft pick for Marv though. Late 1st rounder maybe. Mid first rounder if we luck out. Sorry

[dalamchops]

i guess at least MW is money from the midrange. Nowadays a 1st round pick is no guarantees

[Admin]

It would be flat out crazy for us to trade Marvin for anything other than a talented young player or a very high lottery pick since Marvin still has a world of potential and has gotten better every year. There aren't a ton of guys in the league who progressively get better every year and if Marvin continues doing that for another 2 years he will be a very good player. Unfortunately I don't see him ever being the superstar player that you hope to draft at #2 but there is a great chance that Josh Smith will become a superstar and that would certainly help to balance out missing out on the 2nd pick. I love that Marvin has placed such a high value on his education but I really hope he spends this offseason getting stronger and more coordinated and matures his game some and I definitely hope he spends some time extending his range out to 3pt land.

[macdaddy]

I don't know. I'll admit I've never been impressed with Marvin's game and while I see your point about him having improved he hasn't really added anything new to his game. Sure he's young but he has 1 year of college ball and 3 years of heavy nba minutes under his belt. Shouldn't this be enough to fairly evaluate his game?

[Admin]

I think we have seen the player that Marvin will likely become which is a tough perimeter defender and a good to possibly great medium range jump shooter. Unless the issue is him not being completely mature in his body I doubt he will ever be good creating his own shot or beating his man off the dribble. If he continues on his improvement then by the end of year 5 he will be at 20+ ppg and 5-7 rpg which to me is a pretty damn good player. Not a superstar by any means but pretty good. Also you have to consider that at best he has been the 3rd option his entire time with the Hawks and is probably the 4th option now with Bibby here. I think if he had the ball more he would probably score more than he does.

[Guest Walter]

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At least Smoove is trying to improve his game as evident by James Verrett saying he had spent some time with Nique working on his low post game. We never hear anything like that about Marvin. Seems like Marving doesn't really want to be "good" although he says he does.

Gotta a love a kid who wants to get his education, but NOT at the expense of his chosen profession in which he is getting paid millions upon millions of dollars. When you leave college 3 years early to chase the NBA dream you are signing up for remedial studies ON TOP OF the normal work you put in. Even according to MW he needed an assistant coach to call him out in order to "work on his game" in the offseason as he was content to weight train, play full-court, and continue his education at UNC. THINK ABOUT IT! That is what 9 out of 10 of college males remotely interested in basketball do, they play pick up games and lift weights in-between classes. MW isn't doing anything different much less exceptional to improve himself (I won't even go into the "core strengthening" offseason the year prior - gag!).

W

[Guest Walter]

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At least Smoove is trying to improve his game as evident by James Verrett saying he had spent some time with Nique working on his low post game. We never hear anything like that about Marvin. Seems like Marving doesn't really want to be "good" although he says he does.

Gotta a love a kid who wants to get his education, but NOT at the expense of his chosen profession in which he is getting paid millions upon millions of dollars. When you leave college 3 years early to chase the NBA dream you are signing up for remedial studies ON TOP OF the normal work you put in. Even according to MW he needed an assistant coach to call him out in order to "work on his game" in the offseason as he was content to weight train, play full-court, and continue his education at UNC. THINK ABOUT IT! That is what 9 out of 10 of college males remotely interested in basketball do, they play pick up games and lift weights in-between classes. MW isn't doing anything different much less exceptional to improve himself (I won't even go into the "core strengthening" offseason the year prior - gag!).

W

[AHF]

When did Marvin say he needed an assistant coach to call him out to get him working this offseason?

[macdaddy]

I don't disagree with you about what his strengths are. I just can't imagine playing a guy who can't drive the ball and can't hit the three enough minutes to get 20 points per game. Eventually a good team will find someone who can do those things at the 3 and Marvin will be getting 15 minutes and scoring 8 a game.

I really hope I'm wrong because unlike his first two years sometimes I do see sparks of something from him. I'm trying to come up with a comparable quality player who's game is good D and mid range jump shooting but I can't really. Bruce Bowen comes to mind but he plays great D (or fouls a lot) and can shoot the 3.

[Plainview1981]

Marvin plays like a female. Even back at the start of the year he couldn't do much outside of mid range shot. He should be called Marvin "Little Dog" Williams.

[PlayaPat420]

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I'm trying to come up with a comparable quality player who's game is good D and mid range jump shooting but I can't really. Bruce Bowen comes to mind but he plays great D (or fouls a lot) and can shoot the 3.

Kind of sounds like Michael Finley, eventhough he hits the three also. I would settle for a Finley like player.

But If he is so terrible, why trade him and get next to nothing for him? We should play out his contract just like we did Chill. If he doesn't mature into a reliable asset, you move on. But if he does, it will be for us instead of some other team.

[thefloydian]

Yeah, but young Finley was a lot better than young Marvin. Finley was a slasher/dunk machine early in his career.

[Atlantaholic]

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I'm trying to come up with a comparable quality player who's game is good D and mid range jump shooting but I can't really. Bruce Bowen comes to mind but he plays great D (or fouls a lot) and can shoot the 3.

Kind of sounds like Michael Finley, eventhough he hits the three also. I would settle for a Finley like player.

But If he is so terrible, why trade him and get next to nothing for him? We should play out his contract just like we did Chill. If he doesn't mature into a reliable asset, you move on. But if he does, it will be for us instead of some other team.

What?

Good defense, Mid-range shooting... Obviously you meant Richard Hamilton... To me that is Marvin's cieling