Woody finally has the right idea-bench marvin

BusBoyIsBack · March 29, 2008

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Please name ONE thing that Marvin has improved upon offensively except slightly improving his midrange jumper. Name ONE thing that he's added to his offensive repertoire in the last two years, just one.

Marvin Williams has improved his offensive efficiency this year. He is shooting the highest percentage of his career in terms of FG% as well as FT%. Not to mention he's a better rebounder this year.

He's also shown more flashes of brilliance with a few of the best games of his career coming this year.

Everyone knew Marvin was going to take 3-4 years to develop. Writing him off in his 2nd season as a starter is ludicrious because of that.

This wasn't some polished NBA ready seasoned college vet. This was a guy who came off the bench his only year in college and was considered very raw

Per 36 minutes, Marvin Williams with the slump he's had this year has improved his PPG by 3 PPG since his rookie season.

That sounds bad until you realize A)The point of how raw he was and B)the fact that guys like Tracy McGrady and Kevin Garnett only improved in the same area by a mere 4 PPG over the same span from rookie year to 3rd year

thesheedera · March 29, 2008

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In Childress, we have a guy who does better than he's supposed to do.

You must have awfully low expectations for a #6 pick in the draft if you think Childress is a guy who "does better than he's supposed to do".

Atlantaholic · March 29, 2008

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People get mad at Marvin because he is content with acepting his role, instead of trying to do more than he's used to doing. Those same people go crazy when Smoove tries to do more than what he should be doing.

It's just ironic to me that with Marvin it's "content with accepting his role" while with Childress he's somehow bringing incredible intangibles that don't show up in the numbers. Childress was an EXTREMELY high draft pick. Not as high as #2, but are #6 draft picks just supposed to be scrappy guys coming off the bench?

They've both been disappointments, face it. The question is, do either of them offer the potential to become much better than they are now?

Between Marvin and Childress, I would say Marvin has a far greater shot of blowing up... I don't see it happening though.

Atlantaholic · March 29, 2008

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People get mad at Marvin because he is content with acepting his role, instead of trying to do more than he's used to doing. Those same people go crazy when Smoove tries to do more than what he should be doing.

It's just ironic to me that with Marvin it's "content with accepting his role" while with Childress he's somehow bringing incredible intangibles that don't show up in the numbers. Childress was an EXTREMELY high draft pick. Not as high as #2, but are #6 draft picks just supposed to be scrappy guys coming off the bench?

They've both been disappointments, face it. The question is, do either of them offer the potential to become much better than they are now?

It's year 4 for Childress and Year 3 for Marvin playing the easiest position on the floor to play.

POTENTIAL IS DEAD...

Right now, what you have is what you have.

Therefore, what we have in Marvin is a guy who could do better but doesn't.

In Childress, we have a guy who does better than he's supposed to do.

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm as much a Marvin "Hater" as anyone, but to proclaim that at 21 POTENTIAL IS DEAD is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life pertaining to anything, ever.

I guess when JJ was 21 and averaging 6 points that, that was indicative of his potential right?... Or was it during his THIRD year when he averaged under double digit scoring that he hit his potential wall?

Marvin doesn't impress me, but not because he is in HIS THIRD year, but rather because he isn't a freak athelete, (like Garnett or McGrady) He isn't versatile on offense (like most good SF are), and he has sub par dribbling and rebounding skills (though at least his rebounding skills seemed to be coming around last night)

It was a nice attempt to compare Marvin to KG and McGrady by BusBoy, but simply looking at the context of both players shows why they really aren't comparable with Marvin.

First of all KG was NBA ready from the onset and had a Terrific Rookie year... obviously his improvement from year 1 to year 3 won't be great... he was damn good to begin with, and by his third year he was almost averaging 20 and 10.

As for McGrady, that comparison is much more valid... However, McGrady was a phenomenon, athletically wise, and everybody in the NBA world KNEW he was gonna absolutely blow up after his third year... The fluidity in his game, from somebody his size, was an extreme rarity that every GM in the world was salivating for. Orlando signed him to an 10 million dollar a year contract right after that third year, making him their franchise player... I doubt anybody in the NBA would be offering 10 million plus for Marvin right now despite averaging "comparable" numbers.

Rashard Lewis still seems like the most valid comparison, and I still believe that truly is his ceiling... It isn't bad, but nowhere near what you should be getting from a #2 pick, and something that I would rather trade away for interior Defense any day of the week.

Diesel · March 29, 2008

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In Childress, we have a guy who does better than he's supposed to do.

You must have awfully low expectations for a #6 pick in the draft if you think Childress is a guy who "does better than he's supposed to do".

Are you judging the pick or the player???

If you're judging the pick...really evaluate the 5 that went ahead of him.

If you're judging the player... Like I am..

Look at the facts. He's 6'7-6'8 around 205 pounds... yet he gets in there with the bigs... BANGS.. gets rebounds and scores... All in an area where other guys his size dare not go.

HE DOES MORE THAN HE'S SUPPOSE TO DO.

Last night, I saw him grab a Marvin miss by simply outworking the guy who was down their rebounding. Last night, his pass to Horford over the defense was picture perfect.

I was a fan of Dennis Rodman because although Rodman had limitations, his desire allowed him to be a dominate player. I think Chillz has a little bit (not the same amount) of that type of desire.

AtLaS · March 29, 2008

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Please name ONE thing that Marvin has improved upon offensively except slightly improving his midrange jumper. Name ONE thing that he's added to his offensive repertoire in the last two years, just one.

Marvin Williams has improved his offensive efficiency this year. He is shooting the highest percentage of his career in terms of FG% as well as FT%..

You proved my point, other than slightly improving his midrange jumper, what has he added to his offensive game? Nothing.

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He's also shown more flashes of brilliance with a few of the best games of his career coming this year.

No he hasn't, he's just made more midrange J's than in years past.

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This wasn't some polished NBA ready seasoned college vet. This was a guy who came off the bench his only year in college and was considered very raw

WTF was BK thinking.. seriously?

BusBoyIsBack · March 29, 2008

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It was a nice attempt to compare Marvin to KG and McGrady by BusBoy, but simply looking at the context of both players shows why they really aren't comparable with Marvin.

First of all KG was NBA ready from the onset and had a Terrific Rookie year... obviously his improvement from year 1 to year 3 won't be great... he was damn good to begin with, and by his third year he was almost averaging 20 and 10.

Actually Garnett didn't score 20 PPG until his FOURTH year. His rookie year he only averaged 10.4 PPG. He averaged 13.8 PPG per 36 minutes his Rookie year which is only one more than Marvin. And he improved it to 17.7 PPG per 36 minutes in his third season.

That's the 4 PPG increase Im referring to. Marvn has improved his by 3.

IOW, the idea that Garnett lit the league up as a star from day one is far from accurate. It wasn't until his 4th year in the league when that occurred. And it should also be pointed out that Garnett was a 3 year starter at that point unlike Marvin.

Progression for McGrady is about the same.

Is Marvin the type of athlete those guys are? Perhaps not. But I think people underrate his athleticism. Dude tested out pretty freaking well as far as athleticism at the combine. He has pretty dang good length and athleticism. He doesn't have a 40 inch vert but he measured with a 35 inch one and has at times shown signs of getting pretty freaking airborne like the posterization of Marcus Camby.

Marvin's biggest thing is getting stronger. He often loses his balance on drives which results in charges or turnovers. He also tries too hard sometimes when he is backing down a smaller opponent. He needs to realize he doesn't have to back the guy all the way down into the paint, but just enough where he can shoot over the top of them.

If he works on those two areas, with his silky smooth jumper, average 18 PPG should be no problem for him as early as next season

Atlantaholic · March 30, 2008

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It was a nice attempt to compare Marvin to KG and McGrady by BusBoy, but simply looking at the context of both players shows why they really aren't comparable with Marvin.

First of all KG was NBA ready from the onset and had a Terrific Rookie year... obviously his improvement from year 1 to year 3 won't be great... he was damn good to begin with, and by his third year he was almost averaging 20 and 10.

Actually Garnett didn't score 20 PPG until his FOURTH year. His rookie year he only averaged 10.4 PPG. He averaged 13.8 PPG per 36 minutes his Rookie year which is only one more than Marvin. And he improved it to 17.7 PPG per 36 minutes in his third season.

That's the 4 PPG increase Im referring to. Marvn has improved his by 3.

IOW, the idea that Garnett lit the league up as a star from day one is far from accurate. It wasn't until his 4th year in the league when that occurred. And it should also be pointed out that Garnett was a 3 year starter at that point unlike Marvin.

Progression for McGrady is about the same.

Is Marvin the type of athlete those guys are? Perhaps not. But I think people underrate his athleticism. Dude tested out pretty freaking well as far as athleticism at the combine. He has pretty dang good length and athleticism. He doesn't have a 40 inch vert but he measured with a 35 inch one and has at times shown signs of getting pretty freaking airborne like the posterization of Marcus Camby.

Marvin's biggest thing is getting stronger. He often loses his balance on drives which results in charges or turnovers. He also tries too hard sometimes when he is backing down a smaller opponent. He needs to realize he doesn't have to back the guy all the way down into the paint, but just enough where he can shoot over the top of them.

If he works on those two areas, with his silky smooth jumper, average 18 PPG should be no problem for him as early as next season

Garnett averaged 18.5 and 9 his third year AND four assists... He was also the leader of his team and their defensive catalyst... Yeah there's really no comparison there with Marvin... Also aside from those measly 13 points his rookie year he also averaged 8 rebounds per 36... Not to mention that he, (as well as McGrady) straight from HS, and had no college experience... unlike Marvin...

Regardless... it's pretty pointless comparing these players because I know that not even Marvin's biggest supporters, pretend that he can become as good as either of those guys.

I agree that he has room to grow, and hopefully he becomes a good/very good starter for us... In fact he Probably will...

It's just a shame that we invested a #2 pick and four years of development on a good/very good SF, when we ALREADY have a SF on the team that is pretty good (Chill).

BusBoyIsBack · March 30, 2008

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Garnett averaged 18.5 and 9 his third year AND four assists... He was also the leader of his team and their defensive catalyst... Yeah there's really no comparison there with Marvin... Also aside from those measly 13 points his rookie year he also averaged 8 rebounds per 36... Not to mention that he, (as well as McGrady) straight from HS, and had no college experience... unlike Marvin...

Regardless... it's pretty pointless comparing these players because I know that not even Marvin's biggest supporters, pretend that he can become as good as either of those guys.

I agree that he has room to grow, and hopefully he becomes a good/very good starter for us... In fact he Probably will...

It's just a shame that we invested a #2 pick and four years of development on a good/very good SF, when we ALREADY have a SF on the team that is pretty good (Chill).

I'm aware Garnett is a HOF and one of the best PFs to ever play the game.

I was just refuting the ridiculous notion that he lit the league on fire his rookie year. That is far from accurate. It was his THIRD year in the league where he really started to shown those signs of putting it together and in the fourth year he was a star.

But also keep in mind, that Garnett not only played more MPG but he actually started a significant amount of games his rookie season.

Marvin didn't have that luxury. This is only Marvin's SECOND season as a starter.

Just a second season for a guy who was already considered a raw prospect that would take THREE to FOUR years to blossom.

So it's really silly to pretend he's reached his ceiling when that is the case.

Clearly with a guy considered raw enough to take that long to develop, we should know a whole lot more about next season.

The only SF I can think of off the top of my head that's better than Marvin at the same age is Rudy Gay and Rudy Gay was not considered as raw as Marvin. He was a two year starter at Uconn who had a much more developed game.

Atlantaholic · March 30, 2008