Salim should stay the primary backup pg

[AHF]

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some of yall are some straight B1TCHES! "he shoots below 40%" who cares what salims field goal percentage is. You ignore the fact that acie doesnt know what to do when he comes in the game, you ignore the fact that when salims comes in NOT IN GARBAGE TIME he plays calmly. No, salim is not a point guard BUT he gives us a better chance than chills AND acie. Hell, when he was in the game he played the 2 am i correct therefore he wasnt force to play the point. hell, if you want you can put acie at the point for bibby and salim at the 2 for JJ or vice versa. anyway salims needs more playing time.

if you disagree then bring the meat, i will be ready.

How can you recommend him as a shooting guard but not care what his FG% is? I can understand ignoring that to rely on effective FG% but for a guy who is not a defensive asset, he better score effectively. I like Salim but can't understand why he consistently shoots so poorly. IMO, he needs to be able to shoot effectively without being on the floor for 15 minutes.

[Admin]

Maybe Salim needs to be on an exercise bike, jumping rope, or shooting on a rim somewhere out of the way when he's not in the game so that he can be more ready to contribute. People still have this notion for some reason that he is a shooter and he's clearly proven that he isn't. He is a chucker and not a very effective one at that. If it takes him 15 minutes of being in a game before he can be effective then he is useless to us.

It's obvious that we are going to need some production (points) out of him or Acie though since Bibby tends to be absolutely awful when he isn't on.

[PureGreatness]

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some of yall are some straight B1TCHES! "he shoots below 40%" who cares what salims field goal percentage is. You ignore the fact that acie doesnt know what to do when he comes in the game, you ignore the fact that when salims comes in NOT IN GARBAGE TIME he plays calmly. No, salim is not a point guard BUT he gives us a better chance than chills AND acie. Hell, when he was in the game he played the 2 am i correct therefore he wasnt force to play the point. hell, if you want you can put acie at the point for bibby and salim at the 2 for JJ or vice versa. anyway salims needs more playing time.

if you disagree then bring the meat, i will be ready.

How can you recommend him as a shooting guard but not care what his FG% is? I can understand ignoring that to rely on effective FG% but for a guy who is not a defensive asset, he better score effectively. I like Salim but can't understand why he consistently shoots so poorly. IMO, he needs to be able to shoot effectively without being on the floor for 15 minutes.

no, people are bringing up salims shooting %s in this point guard discussion that we are having. some folks brought up salims career field goal %. let me ask you, who would you rather have at the back up point for the rest of the season and playoffs(not next season, not the season after that...this season)? acie law, chillz or salim? gimmie a good reason.

[Johnnybravo4]

He is basically Ben Gordon. If Ben only got to play 10 minutes per month he'd wouldn't be as effective either.

[PureGreatness]

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He is basically Ben Gordon. If Ben only got to play 10 minutes per month he'd wouldn't be as effective either.

thank you my brotha

[Admin]

and what was our record recently when Salim was getting consistent minutes (10+ per game), do you remember? We are 5-8 since Feb 19th when Salim gets 10 or more minutes. During that time Salim has shot 30-70 overall for a 43% shooting percentage which is equal to what Joe shoots on the year. The difference is that Salim is a piss poor defender and we can't afford to have a liability like that from a guy that can't shoot at least 50% like a Monta Ellis does to make up for his defensive and play making shortcomings.

You definitely cannot play Salim and Acie together and you definitely don't play a 2nd year 2nd round pick that doesn't defend over a rookie PG that is supposed to be your future at the position. Acie shoots about the same percentage as Salim and is a much better defender, ball handler, and distributor.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

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and what was our record recently when Salim was getting consistent minutes (10+ per game), do you remember? We are 5-8 since Feb 19th when Salim gets 10 or more minutes. During that time Salim has shot 30-70 overall for a 43% shooting percentage which is equal to what Joe shoots on the year. The difference is that Salim is a piss poor defender and we can't afford to have a liability like that from a guy that can't shoot at least 50% like a Monta Ellis does to make up for his defensive and play making shortcomings.

You definitely cannot play Salim and Acie together and you definitely don't play a 2nd year 2nd round pick that doesn't defend over a rookie PG that is supposed to be your future at the position. Acie shoots about the same percentage as Salim and is a much better defender, ball handler, and distributor.

yep

[PureGreatness]

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and what was our record recently when Salim was getting consistent minutes (10+ per game), do you remember? We are 5-8 since Feb 19th when Salim gets 10 or more minutes. During that time Salim has shot 30-70 overall for a 43% shooting percentage which is equal to what Joe shoots on the year. The difference is that Salim is a piss poor defender and we can't afford to have a liability like that from a guy that can't shoot at least 50% like a Monta Ellis does to make up for his defensive and play making shortcomings.

You definitely cannot play Salim and Acie together and you definitely don't play a 2nd year 2nd round pick that doesn't defend over a rookie PG that is supposed to be your future at the position. Acie shoots about the same percentage as Salim and is a much better defender, ball handler, and distributor.

weak arguement, you can use that same weak record argument for JJ...try again.

[DJlaysitup]

It is a good point though - that when JChillz has to play (at) PG, we are going to lose some of his finishing skills and scrappiness around the basket. Crazy as it sounds - it would have been nice in hindsight if we could have kept A.J. from the Bibby trade and have him as our primary backup PG.

I'd probably play Salim in front of Acie right now. It's not a good choice to have though....arsenic or cyanide? They both can kill ya.

[dig]

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and what was our record recently when Salim was getting consistent minutes (10+ per game), do you remember? We are 5-8 since Feb 19th when Salim gets 10 or more minutes. During that time Salim has shot 30-70 overall for a 43% shooting percentage which is equal to what Joe shoots on the year. The difference is that Salim is a piss poor defender and we can't afford to have a liability like that from a guy that can't shoot at least 50% like a Monta Ellis does to make up for his defensive and play making shortcomings.

You definitely cannot play Salim and Acie together and you definitely don't play a 2nd year 2nd round pick that doesn't defend over a rookie PG that is supposed to be your future at the position. Acie shoots about the same percentage as Salim and is a much better defender, ball handler, and distributor.

weak arguement, you can use that same weak record argument for JJ...try again.

Weak argument? What? Are you saying that JJ and Salim are both equally responsible for wins & losses? You don't really make much sense...

The bottom line is that Salim should not be handling the ball and is not a PG... the stats (assist ratio, turnover ratio, offensive efficiency) bear this out, as does simply watching him play. To recap -- he forces the action, takes ill-advised shots, and turns the ball over at a high rate.

Acie has also struggled mightily on offense, but at least he has shown some semblance of court vision and handling, even though his finishing is terrible right now and his jumper isn't falling (altho Salim is guilty of the latter two, as well). Most of all, Acie is a decent and potentially good defender, while Salim is an all-out liability on that end.

I really don't understand why people jump up to support Salim every time we lose a game or the guards don't play well. He is a borderline NBA player playing on a borderline NBA playoff team...

[JackB1]

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If you are trying to insinuate that any of those players other than Joe are better shooters than Salim than it is obvious that you don't go to games but merely look at boxscores.

That's exactly what I'm trying to insinuate. I guess the score at the end of the game doesn't matter either. I do go to games...about 15 this year and what does that have to do with anything anyway? How else do you judge a "shooter" like Salim without looking at his shooting percentages? If he doesn't score at a respectable rate, then what else is he good for? Are you saying a shooting guard can be worthwhile without making baskets? That would be an argument I would like to hear

[keith]

I look at it like this. First of all Salim is not nearly as bad on defense as some of these posters are trying to say. Some people also say that Salim can't pass,but look at some of the passes that he made over the weekend against Philly.When Woodson puts Salim in the game,he puts him in the game as a role of an outside shooter,not a playmaker.Some posters get to caught up in STATS.This is not baseball.If a baseball player only has 100 at bats and is hitting (.220) most people don't panic,but if certain basketball players shoot 38% over limited minutes people go crazy. JJ was shooting under 40% the first two months of the season but we all new what he was capable of. If Salim and Law would get consistant minutes then their production would improve. It is no way that Woodson should have Chills running the point period.His passing and playmaking skills are poor. The spacing on the floor is terrible when Chills at the point. Last night when Salim on the floor at point the spacing was great and the Hawks made a little run.The few times Woodson puts Salim in the game at point in meaningful situations he doesn't force as many bad shots and he makes some good passes,but when he comes in at garbage time then he tends to play like garbage, just like everyone else in the game at garbage time.

[PureGreatness]

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I look at it like this. First of all Salim is not nearly as bad on defense as some of these posters are trying to say. Some people also say that Salim can't pass,but look at some of the passes that he made over the weekend against Philly.When Woodson puts Salim in the game,he puts him in the game as a role of an outside shooter,not a playmaker.Some posters get to caught up in STATS.This is not baseball.If a baseball player only has 100 at bats and is hitting (.220) most people don't panic,but if certain basketball players shoot 38% over limited minutes people go crazy. JJ was shooting under 40% the first two months of the season but we all new what he was capable of. If Salim and Law would get consistant minutes then their production would improve. It is no way that Woodson should have Chills running the point period.His passing and playmaking skills are poor. The spacing on the floor is terrible when Chills at the point. Last night when Salim on the floor at point the spacing was great and the Hawks made a little run.The few times Woodson puts Salim in the game at point in meaningful situations he doesn't force as many bad shots and he makes some good passes,

but when he comes in at garbage time then he tends to play like garbage, just like everyone else in the game at garbage time

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mmm good point

[AHF]

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He is basically Ben Gordon. If Ben only got to play 10 minutes per month he'd wouldn't be as effective either.

Really? In a down year for Gordon, things don't look that comparable - especially in shooting %.

Gordon

2008 per 36 minutes

20.9 pp36; .496 efg%; 3.4 rp36; 3.3 ap36

Salim

2008 per 36 minutes

17.3 pp36; .423 efg%; 1.7 rp36; 2.7 ap36

[JackB1]

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but when he comes in at garbage time then he tends to play like garbage, just like everyone else in the game at garbage time

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>>>>>mmm good point

That is not a good point at all. Salim comes in at "garbage time" which means he is usually being guarded by the other team's scrubs and since the outcome of the game is no longer in question, the other team is playing very loose defense. If Salim played more "non garbage" minutes, against the other team's top defenders, he wouldn't do better....he would do worse.

[Packfill]

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some of yall are some straight B1TCHES! "he shoots below 40%" who cares what salims field goal percentage is. You ignore the fact that acie doesnt know what to do when he comes in the game, you ignore the fact that when salims comes in NOT IN GARBAGE TIME he plays calmly. No, salim is not a point guard BUT he gives us a better chance than chills AND acie. Hell, when he was in the game he played the 2 am i correct therefore he wasnt force to play the point. hell, if you want you can put acie at the point for bibby and salim at the 2 for JJ or vice versa. anyway salims needs more playing time.

if you disagree then bring the meat, i will be ready.

How can you recommend him as a shooting guard but not care what his FG% is? I can understand ignoring that to rely on effective FG% but for a guy who is not a defensive asset, he better score effectively. I like Salim but can't understand why he consistently shoots so poorly. IMO, he needs to be able to shoot effectively without being on the floor for 15 minutes.

no, people are bringing up salims shooting %s in this point guard discussion that we are having. some folks brought up salims career field goal %. let me ask you, who would you rather have at the back up point for the rest of the season and playoffs(not next season, not the season after that...this season)? acie law, chillz or salim? gimmie a good reason.

I want Acie playing the back-up point minutes for the balance of the season and the playoffs. The reason I feel that way is that Acie needs the playing time to develop. The team needs to find out whether he is the future or not. Neither Chill nor Salim are point guards and do not play effectively at that position, which is why I do not want them playing out-of-position.

[Johnnybravo4]

Whenever you see the word PER, you know you are about to get an argument from someone who watches boxscores and not games. In actual games you have to account for situations: Who were the opponents? What was the score? Who were the teammates on the floor? What kind of offense were they running? What kind of defense were they playing?

When I compare Ben Gordon to Salim, it is based upon actually watching them both play and comparing skill sets. You'll never be able to calculate that.

[exodus]

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Whenever you see the word PER, you know you are about to get an argument from someone who watches boxscores and not games. In actual games you have to account for situations: Who were the opponents? What was the score? Who were the teammates on the floor? What kind of offense were they running? What kind of defense were they playing?

When I compare Ben Gordon to Salim, it is based upon actually watching them both play and comparing skill sets. You'll never be able to calculate that.

Gordon actually makes shots and he can create his own shot off the dribble. Salim does neither.

Gordon is Chicago's primary scorer and the focus of opposing defenses. Salim is neither.

[AHF]

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Whenever you see the word PER, you know you are about to get an argument from someone who watches boxscores and not games. In actual games you have to account for situations: Who were the opponents? What was the score? Who were the teammates on the floor? What kind of offense were they running? What kind of defense were they playing?

When I compare Ben Gordon to Salim, it is based upon actually watching them both play and comparing skill sets. You'll never be able to calculate that.

I was doing that to be nice to Salim.

When I watch Salim, I see him missing a LOT more shots than Gordon against weaker backup defenders.

[Johnnybravo4]

Like I said before, shooters need shots to get get hot. I am sure Ben Gordon is an even more divisive figure in Chicago than Salim is. But the reason he almost won ROY and 6th man is that he got shots and minutes. When Salim got consistent minutes (The minutes Acie got this year) he avg nearly 10ppg.