should Atlanta EVER live down choosing MW?

[Cwell]

Paul actually came out as a sophomore

[Johnnybravo4]

All I know is that Paul and MW got to the playoff for the first time at the same time. Unless Paul wins a championship I could give a rat's azz

[DieHardHAWK]

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All I know is that Paul and MW got to the playoff for the first time at the same time. Unless Paul wins a championship I could give a rat's azz

cosign

[Cwell]

yeah except.Without Paul NO is not where they are,without Marvin we're still where we are.

[Diesel]

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All I know is that Paul and MW got to the playoff for the first time at the same time. Unless Paul wins a championship I could give a rat's azz

This is such a loser response. Have you listened to it? We had 5 Sfs on the roster when we drafted Marvin. We had NO PGs. Not good ones.

Paul and Marvin did get to the playoffs... BUT Paul got there as a candidate for League MVP. Marvin got there as the 4th option on a team that Limped into the playoffs with a losing record.

You say you can give a rats ass... Cool. Noted. However, don't complain about Bibby, Speedy, Salim or Law...because these guys became necessary because of the goof that we made drafting Marvin.

[Johnnybravo4]

No a loser response is to [censored] about something that can't be changed. Marvin is not the MVP candidate that Paul is but there is no evidence that Paul would have achieved that here. If Dallas would have known that Nash would be the player he would be he would not be in Phx. Joe Johnson should probably still be a Celtic, but there is no evidence that he'd be the all star he is now if he stayed in Boston.

But at the end of the day, I will judge the wisdom of our choice based upon playoff success. If Paul on a team with 2 allstars, Peja and one of the league's best rebounders gets eliminated in round 1 and we beat the Celtics in round 1 should we still [censored] and moan about not drafting Paul?

Until Paul is holding an Obrien trophy before Marvin I don't give a rat's azz.

[Cwell]

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No a loser response is to [censored] about something that can't be changed. Marvin is not the MVP candidate that Paul is but there is no evidence that Paul would have achieved that here. If Dallas would have known that Nash would be the player he would be he would not be in Phx. Joe Johnson should probably still be a Celtic, but there is no evidence that he'd be the all star he is now if he stayed in Boston.

But at the end of the day, I will judge the wisdom of our choice based upon playoff success. If Paul on a team with 2 allstars, Peja and one of the league's best rebounders gets eliminated in round 1 and we beat the Celtics in round 1 should we still [censored] and moan about not drafting Paul?

Until Paul is holding an Obrien trophy before Marvin I don't give a rat's azz.

Peja wasn't there when Paul got there lol.and David West wasn't an all-star.Tyson Chandler wasn't there either.All Paul needed was a coach to trust him and give him the reigns of the team like Byron Scott did.Jerry Sloan did the same with Deron,it was delayed half of his rookie year but it still happened.In our case Acie is buried on the bench.NO has Paul and West,Utah has Williams and Boozer.If we get rid of Woody we'll have Law and Horford.

[Diesel]

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No a loser response is to [censored] about something that can't be changed. Marvin is not the MVP candidate that Paul is but there is no evidence that Paul would have achieved that here. If Dallas would have known that Nash would be the player he would be he would not be in Phx. Joe Johnson should probably still be a Celtic, but there is no evidence that he'd be the all star he is now if he stayed in Boston.

But at the end of the day, I will judge the wisdom of our choice based upon playoff success. If Paul on a team with 2 allstars, Peja and one of the league's best rebounders gets eliminated in round 1 and we beat the Celtics in round 1 should we still [censored] and moan about not drafting Paul?

Until Paul is holding an Obrien trophy before Marvin I don't give a rat's azz.

Who said anything about changing it? It should be ACKNOWLEDGED.

You know when you say, I can give a rat's azz... That's loser talk translated... I don't care to acknowledge how utterly stupid that pick was. Instead, I will act as though it didn't happen and will criticize anybody who bring it up because it can't be changed.

Well, Look around Jimmy Jack. We should start acknowledging it. Marvin's presence is responsible for the lost of several players already. We're waiting on him to all the sudden become this great player that he has the potential to be. The truth is that he should be coming off the bench until he learns to play with enough passion to leave it all on the floor. We're in win or go home territory. We don't need some unpassionate shoulder shrugging rooh pooh out there blowing this opportunity. The window that we have to accomplish something major is a very small one. So why can't we be critical of what he brings to the game?? Because it shows that maybe, just maybe we f----- up? We're the laughing stock of the 2004-2006 drafts anyway. The sooner we admit it & correct it, the sooner we can move on. There are sometimes in life, when you have to look at the mistake you made... Be a f00---- man and say "I'll never do that again"... Well, you deciding not to give a rats azz and just being happy to be in the playoffs is a sure sign that you just don't care at all if this team makes the same mistake. Really it says that you're not trying to be a man about this!

[Duff_Man]

At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

[Cwell]

exactly.We already saw the mistake in Shelden and got Bibby whil giving up other mistakes like AJ,and Lue.Now is time to recognize Marvin was a mistake and move on.

[Johnnybravo4]

That is the problem you are not moving on. All you are doing now is giving excuses for why Paul and Marvin are at the playoffs at the same time. Let it go..its over.

[Cwell]

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

lol yes we did.His numbers fell as the year went on.When u watch Marvin u don't see a 15/6/2 player.That's why I hate stats.He's a goofy dude that should be on the bench.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Chris Paul's playoff debut: 35 points, 10 assists, 4 steals, ONE turnover. he'll finish in the top 3 in the MVP race (with a very legit argument as to why he should be the MVP).

as a Hawks fan, it KILLS me to watch him, and yet he's SO good, as a basketball fan, it's impossible not to watch and admire his play.

the post-hoc rationalizations (ATL stinking for another year allowed the Hawks to get Horford) don't really remove the bitter taste when you watch Paul...

Post-hoc rationalizations?

What hypocrisy considering the entire argument is hindsight since that if anyone knew how good Paul would have been he would have been the cosensus #1 pick.

The Hawks are the youngest team in the NBA playoffs. WHo knows it could be the youngest core in NBA playoff history.

With such a bright future, the question is WILL Atlanta ever let it go, because with such a core they most defenitely SHOULD.

[Cwell]

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That is the problem you are not moving on. All you are doing now is giving excuses for why Paul and Marvin are at the playoffs at the same time. Let it go..its over.

No i'm not,I didn't make this thread.and my first post said i'm tired of this.My point isn't much about Paul it's about Marvin himself.We passed on two great PG's but we could have atleast got a decent SF,but we got some goof.SF is the easist position yet he makes it look like rocket science.He's the only guy on our starting 5 that can't dribble the floor with no problem and yes including Smoove.lol Salim is at the playoffs too and people wanted him traded.

[Diesel]

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

Uhm... Hello, we were getting 18/8/3 from Al Harrington.

Tell me, where's this satisfaction coming from??

You're satisfied because that's all you have right?

I mean, we spent the highest pick in the history of the Hawks on 15/6/2?

Horford in his first year is making a much bigger impact than Marvin.

But hey... we won 38 games... Marvin didn't really get any better of the past 3 years... So we're satisfied?!?!

Hmm?

[Duff_Man]

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

lol yes we did.His numbers fell as the year went on.When u watch Marvin u don't see a 15/6/2 player.That's why I hate stats.He's a goofy dude that should be on the bench.

So in other words..."Stats only work when I want them to".

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter that Marvin Williams was a cosensus top 2 pick, and as a 13-win team we clearly had no player that had emerged as a star to base our draft on "need" over BPA considering with such a porous performance we could argue we "needed" everything.

It doesn't matter that Marvin Williams was the cosensus guy who had the superstar potential.

It doesn't matter because when people have an agenda, they have an agenda. And unless we win a championship, the dead horse will forever be beaten. Even if we do win one, I honestly can't say it would cease.

Some people just live to complain and relish and embellish in the past

[BusBoyIsBack]

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

Uhm... Hello, we were getting 18/8/3 from Al Harrington.

Tell me, where's this satisfaction coming from??

You're satisfied because that's all you have right?

I mean, we spent the highest pick in the history of the Hawks on 15/6/2?

Horford in his first year is making a much bigger impact than Marvin.

But hey... we won 38 games... Marvin didn't really get any better of the past 3 years... So we're satisfied?!?!

Hmm?

Al Harrington's numbers were about as meaningful as Zach Randolph. THe offense sputtered when it went through him and he showed no interest in playing defense whatsoever.

Marvin has increased his PPG per 36 minutes over his three years just one point less than Garnett and McGrady in their first 3 years.

Last year was only his 2nd year as a starter.

But facts don't matter when someone has an agenda unfortunately.

You know it would be one thing if Marvin didn't increase his PPG/RPG/overall effeciency etc.

It would be one thing if he didn't show flashes of greatness with nearly a 1/4 of his games with 19+ points.

It would understandable if his numbers were stagnant or even declined. But the kid has improved yet people are still acting as if he has peaked and is a bust of epic proportions

IN reality, he's the youngest player on the team and until he stops improving, I'd hold the declarations of bust/career underachiever

[Cwell]

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At 15/6/2 this year, I am not complaining. Would CP be better? Yes. But we didn't draft a stiff or bust.

lol yes we did.His numbers fell as the year went on.When u watch Marvin u don't see a 15/6/2 player.That's why I hate stats.He's a goofy dude that should be on the bench.

So in other words..."Stats only work when I want them to". lol where u get that from?U said he's good because he posted those numbers and I said he's not that type of player.Most nights the guy can barely score 10.Please. f stats.I remember seeing John Salmons averaging 17 at one point this year.I didn't post stat to say why he's bad so how how did u get the notion that they only work for me.

[Packfill]

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Go find some mock drafts from that time where Paul was expected to be the 2nd pick. You might find a few, but the vast majority had Bogut and Marvin as the consensus top two choices and Marvin was almost unanimously predicted to be the best player in 3-5 years. You weren't a member here at the time but I can assure you that people were all over the board about who they wanted but there was certainly not a large percentage of people calling for Paul over Marvin and not even over Deron. Deron was definitely the favorite PG of the Squawk and it was a toss up between Paul and Felton here.

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huh? if the consensus was that MW was the 2nd best choice (after Bogut), how can it be that he's "closer to being what was expected" than Paul?

It means that Paul is significantly better than what most expected of him. Marvin is not as good as was expected but surely not as far below expectations as Paul is above expectations.

I think a good number of people, myself included, did want Paul.

Plus, you really need to consider the fact that the Hawks drafted TWO small forwards in the first round of the 2004 draft. If BK didn't draft two small forwards the previous year and if the Hawks didn't have such a glaring need a point guard then the choice of Marvin would have made sense.