Childress and Marvin both need to go..

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Like I said before, if he develops legit 3pt range, than yes I'd like to keep him. But as of now, REGARDLESS of his numbers, we will NEVER be a good halfcourt offense the way he and Childress play the SF position, they simply don't give us any kind of advantage. They can't create, they can't shoot long range, and they can't drive. It doesn't matter what Marvin does, if he doesn't develop 3pt range we don't need to keep him, period. If Acie is our PG of the future, who will we have to spread the floor? JJ who receives constant doubles? OK..

And we could probably get a good return for Marvin which is why I'm all for trading him. In a S&T we won't get nearly as much.

Don't know what games you've watched but Childress is a very solid 3 point shooter.

Marvin developing a 3 pointer would be nice, but with his mid range game, his shot is not the problem right now. Marvin can wreak more havoc in a defense if he learns how to take his man off the dribble without falling or losing the ball. He should also post up more often and use that baby hook. Marvin tries too hard when he posts up a player and makes it easy to pull the chair on him or poke the ball away. He just needs to simply get position and make the move.

If he works on his lower body strength he should keep his balance more when he drives the basketball.

Becoming that slashing threat is how Marvin can get that PPG average up 3-4 PPG next season.

The idea of just simply getting rid of him and not seeing if his game can progress next year is preposterous. I'd see if his contract was up this year and we said he hasn't shown us enough to re-sign. But we have an entire year before we have to make a decision.

Why the hell would not see if the youngest player on the team could progress if you have no contractual obligations to make a move?

[AtLaS]

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Don't know what games you've watched but Childress is a very solid 3 point shooter.

LOL.

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Marvin developing a 3 pointer would be nice, but with his mid range game, his shot is not the problem right now.

Like I've already said, a midrange game does NOT spread the floor if you are an SF. When you can't shoot the three, the defender doesn't have to play all the way up on you and can pack the lane more. His absence of a 3pt shot kills us.

PLEASE name one legitimate team that has as bad a 3pt shooting team as our team projects for the future. Oh yeah, you can't, they ALL have many 3pt shooters. Why do you think our offense was so much better when Lue played even though he's garbage of a player?

[Joker]

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Don't know what games you've watched but Childress is a very solid 3 point shooter.

LOL.

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Marvin developing a 3 pointer would be nice, but with his mid range game, his shot is not the problem right now.

Like I've already said, a midrange game does NOT spread the floor if you are an SF. When you can't shoot the three, the defender doesn't have to play all the way up on you and can pack the lane more. His absence of a 3pt shot kills us.

PLEASE name one legitimate team that has as bad a 3pt shooting team as our team projects for the future. Oh yeah, you can't, they ALL have many 3pt shooters. Why do you think our offense was so much better when Lue played even though he's garbage of a player?

Offensive movement will spread the floor out as well, this team isn't built like that anyway. Does Marvin need to develop the three, yes, same for Chilldress becoming more aggressive at shooting threes.

[AtLaS]

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Offensive movement will spread the floor out as well,

this team isn't built like that anyway.

Does Marvin need to develop the three, yes, same for Chilldress becoming more aggressive at shooting threes.

Exactly, this team was built terribly. Which is why we need to trade Marvin/Chill and get a legit starting SF who can knock down the 3. The fact that all the top teams can shoot the three should tell you that. If James Posey was our starting SF (hypothetically) we'd have been a better team this year.

[Joker]

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Offensive movement will spread the floor out as well,

this team isn't built like that anyway.

Does Marvin need to develop the three, yes, same for Chilldress becoming more aggressive at shooting threes.

Exactly, this team was built terribly. Which is why we need to trade Marvin/Chill and get a legit starting SF who can knock down the 3. The fact that all the top teams can shoot the three should tell you that. If James Posey was our starting SF (hypothetically) we'd have been a better team this year.

I would rather Al at Power Forward and a Center while keeping Marvin at SF. I would like Smith to play a Ginobili type role off the bench. As for Childress, he nice, but if he get more then the MLE... he can be replaced.

[thescout5]

This was more like the Hawk's team that played all year except playing the Celtic's made them look worse. The Hawk's have the problem of a poorly contructed team(took 4 yrs to build what we saw today) and a coach who doesn't teach the fundamentals. How many times did we see the Celtics in position for rebounds due to not boxing out?

This team has a low basektball IQ. Your not going to score driving the lane on 3 Celtic's. Bad shot selection not passing the ball to the open player and when the player was open not knocking the shot down. What do the players do all day and in the off season? If your getting paid big money you should be out there taking a few 100 shots a day to improve your jumper. Where are the post moves at for the forwards? Send them to Pete Newell's big man camp. These are professionals that don't have much of a game and get paid millions to do it. It was simply embarassing seeing the lack of team effort today or should I say lack of the right talent on the floor. BK and Woody should be fired and better players to fit the puzzle need to be acquired.

It was great winning 3 games this series yet it took 4 yrs to construct what we saw today,still a below 500 team and light years away from even thinking about winning a title at this rate. At this point everyone besides JJ and Horford and probably Smoove should be looked at has trade bait to get the right pieces.

Marvin - he has progressed but I don't see him being a player defenses have to worry about. Once in a blue moon he'll show something and he plays a position that requires offense. Trade him in the right deal.

Childress - no outside game gets alot points off of rebounds sign and trade him in the right deal.

Smoove - no way do I sign him to a max contract but still I would resign him

Bibby - inconsistent player getting paid big money.Reluctantly since Law probably isn't ready he'll be back.

JJ - star of the team

Horford - great rookie season

Right now Marvin and Chills are the main pieces to any deal. Beyond them there isn't much trade value unless to deal Smoove which I doubt happens he is a fan fav.BK is an embarassment has a GM. How does Boston find these layman centers like Powe and Perkins yet the Hawks have to settle for zilch. The Lakers make the big Gasol deal and didn't give up alot yet the Hawk's can't find anyone?

Woody - needs to go there is no excuse for a team not to know the fundamentals.

[Joker]

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This was more like the Hawk's team that played all year except playing the Celtic's made them look worse. The Hawk's have the problem of a poorly contructed team(took 4 yrs to build what we saw today) and a coach who doesn't teach the fundamentals. How many times did we see the Celtics in position for rebounds due to not boxing out?

This team has a low basektball IQ. Your not going to score driving the lane on 3 Celtic's. Bad shot selection not passing the ball to the open player and when the player was open not knocking the shot down. What do the players do all day and in the off season? If your getting paid big money you should be out there taking a few 100 shots a day to improve your jumper. Where are the post moves at for the forwards? Send them to Pete Newell's big man camp. These are professionals that don't have much of a game and get paid millions to do it. It was simply embarassing seeing the lack of team effort today or should I say lack of the right talent on the floor. BK and Woody should be fired and better players to fit the puzzle need to be acquired.

It was great winning 3 games this series yet it took 4 yrs to construct what we saw today,still a below 500 team and light years away from even thinking about winning a title at this rate. At this point everyone besides JJ and Horford and probably Smoove should be looked at has trade bait to get the right pieces.

Marvin - he has progressed but I don't see him being a player defenses have to worry about. Once in a blue moon he'll show something and he plays a position that requires offense. Trade him in the right deal.

Childress - no outside game gets alot points off of rebounds sign and trade him in the right deal.

Smoove - no way do I sign him to a max contract but still I would resign him

Bibby - inconsistent player getting paid big money.Reluctantly since Law probably isn't ready he'll be back.

JJ - star of the team

Horford - great rookie season

Right now Marvin and Chills are the main pieces to any deal. Beyond them there isn't much trade value unless to deal Smoove which I doubt happens he is a fan fav.BK is an embarassment has a GM. How does Boston find these layman centers like Powe and Perkins yet the Hawks have to settle for zilch. The Lakers make the big Gasol deal and didn't give up alot yet the Hawk's can't find anyone?

Woody - needs to go there is no excuse for a team not to know the fundamentals.

Perk was sorry last year, it's easy to play with talent then with young knuckle heads. Even though I disagree with some of it; this is a good read.

[AtLaS]

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The Lakers make the big Gasol deal and didn't give up alot yet the Hawk's can't find anyone?

Agreed, it's a TRAVESTY that we didn't get Gasol when Memphis obviously wanted cap space and little else. We could have easily given them a better trade than LAL and be a much better team, but that's BK for you.

[Joker]

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The Lakers make the big Gasol deal and didn't give up alot yet the Hawk's can't find anyone?

Agreed, it's a TRAVESTY that we didn't get Gasol when Memphis obviously wanted cap space and little else. We could have easily given them a better trade than LAL and be a much better team, but that's BK for you.

Once again there's a lot of teams who felt the same way. The bottomline is, Jerry West package his old team a gift.

[thescout5]

If your a good gem you find the deals if your not you sit around and make excuses....get BK and woody outta here NOW!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Offensive movement will spread the floor out as well,

this team isn't built like that anyway.

Does Marvin need to develop the three, yes, same for Chilldress becoming more aggressive at shooting threes.

Exactly, this team was built terribly. Which is why we need to trade Marvin/Chill and get a legit starting SF who can knock down the 3. The fact that all the top teams can shoot the three should tell you that. If James Posey was our starting SF (hypothetically) we'd have been a better team this year.

Chill and Marvin are not the major problem with our halfcourt offense. It's the lack of a consistent post scorer along with the lack of a consistent creator at PG.

Shooters like Posey and Kapono can't create their own shots either. They need people to draw their man away from them, in order to be effective. It's the penetration abilities of these PGs that make these shooters effective, not the other way around.

If we had a legit low post scorer, we could play inside-out more often. What make the Celtics so good at times, is that KG can not only give them low pot scoring, he's an excellent passer out of the post.

Yes it would help if Chill and Marvin could be more versatile at SF, but they're not the major problem with the halfcourt offense. If we had a creator at the point, he could get Chill easy looks when cutting to the basket, or get Marvin more open looks from 18 - 21 feet.

It doesn't help this offense one bit that our best shooter also has to be the main playmaker.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Agreed, it's a TRAVESTY that we didn't get Gasol when Memphis obviously wanted cap space and little else. We could have easily given them a better trade than LAL and be a much better team, but that's BK for you.

What about the other 28 teams kicking themselves that they didn't know Memphis would make such a suicidal trade?

I swear some of you are literally laughable with your blind hate

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Like I've already said, a midrange game does NOT spread the floor if you are an SF. When you can't shoot the three, the defender doesn't have to play all the way up on you and can pack the lane more. His absence of a 3pt shot kills us.

You completely ignored the point. THe point is adding SLASHING to Marvin's game would make him a bigger threat because it would open him up for more space on his shot attempts. Marvin working on his ball control and lower body strength and post skills would do wonders for his games without ever having to be a great 3 point shooter.

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PLEASE name one legitimate team that has as bad a 3pt shooting team as our team projects for the future. Oh yeah, you can't, they ALL have many 3pt shooters. Why do you think our offense was so much better when Lue played even though he's garbage of a player?

Our offense was better with Ty Lue? YOu have to be F'n kidding me. He slowed down ball movement, dribbled out the shot clock and often set up someone like Josh Smith for a desperation 3. He wasn't nearly the threat off the dribble or facilitator of an offense as Bibby or even Law.

Speaking of Law, Law doesn't project as a solid perimeter shooter in the future? Yeah ok

With Law and Joe Johnson we have a backcourt of the future than can space the floor. COntrary to ridiculous belief, not every team has 4-5 3 point shooters on the floor.

[AtLaS]

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Shooters like Posey and Kapono can't create their own shots either. They need people to draw their man away from them, in order to be effective.

Of course, as does Marvin and Childress. Do you not realize that it's MUCH harder to penetrate when teams pack the lane and basically force you to shoot?

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If we had a legit low post scorer, we could play inside-out more often. What make the Celtics so good at times, is that KG can not only give them low pot scoring, he's an excellent passer out of the post.

Most teams don't have a legit low post scorer, but ALL teams (good ones) have 3pt shooters. Garnett is NOT a low post scorer.

There is a reason JJ receives more defensive attention than Kobe/Lebron/Wade, and it's because their teams have players to take the pressure off of them by knocking down threes when they pass out of the double. If you double Kobe/Lebron/Wade, they will make you pay for it.

[AtLaS]

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Agreed, it's a TRAVESTY that we didn't get Gasol when Memphis obviously wanted cap space and little else. We could have easily given them a better trade than LAL and be a much better team, but that's BK for you.

What about the other 28 teams kicking themselves that they didn't know Memphis would make such a suicidal trade?

I swear some of you are literally laughable with your blind hate

BK could've and should've easily made a better offer than that. Everyone knew Pau was on the trading block, Pau was already saying he wanted out for a while, there is no excuse for BK to not at least find out what they wanted, and we definitely had what they wanted.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Most teams don't have a legit low post scorer, but ALL teams (good ones) have 3pt shooters. Garnett is NOT a low post scorer.

There is a reason JJ receives more defensive attention than Kobe/Lebron/Wade, and it's because their teams have players to take the pressure off of them by knocking down threes when they pass out of the double. If you double Kobe/Lebron/Wade, they will make you pay for it.

How have three point shooting teams like Toronto faired in the post-season?

Most CHAMPIONSHIP teams have a low post scorer. Duncan and Shaq have accounted for every NBA title except one since Jordan retired. Just about every elite team in the league has a low post scorer.

Any team can shoot 3s. Post offense and defense is a far bigger measure of success. And post scoring CREATES opportunities for the 3 pointer.

Horford progressing in the post, Marvin getting down on the block every now and then, and finally creating some opportunities down for Smoove would open up our guards for shooting opportunities.

And as someone else pointed out, having a playmaker outside our best player in JJ would really space the floor. Acie Law creating off the dribble would space the floor more than just simply adding another shooter.

[AtLaS]

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Our offense was better with Ty Lue? YOu have to be F'n kidding me. He slowed down ball movement, dribbled out the shot clock and often set up someone like Josh Smith for a desperation 3. He wasn't nearly the threat off the dribble or facilitator of an offense as Bibby or even Law.

In the past 2 seasons our offense was at least 4-5 ppg better with him on the floor.

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Speaking of Law, Law doesn't project as a solid perimeter shooter in the future? Yeah ok

Who have you been watching? How in the hell does Law project to be a PERIMETER shooter in the future with the way he shot this season? His shot looks terrible from out there. I like Law a lot and think he will be a good starter for us in the future but his shot looks terrible from 3pt range.

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COntrary to ridiculous belief, not every team has 4-5 3 point shooters on the floor.

Nope, but every good team does.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Our offense was better with Ty Lue? YOu have to be F'n kidding me. He slowed down ball movement, dribbled out the shot clock and often set up someone like Josh Smith for a desperation 3. He wasn't nearly the threat off the dribble or facilitator of an offense as Bibby or even Law.

In the past 2 seasons our offense was at least 4-5 ppg better with him on the floor.

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Who have you been watching? How in the hell does Law project to be a PERIMETER shooter in the future with the way he shot this season? His shot looks terrible from out there. I like Law a lot and think he will be a good starter for us in the future but his shot looks terrible from 3pt range.

Because of what he is capable of doing. The freaking guy came into the league as a guy that people thought could only SHOOT the ball. He proved them wrong by showing he could distribute and take people off the dribble. Problem is that he may have tried too much to shake the label instead of going out there and taking the green light. He often hesitated on open shots. But of course since he wasn't lights out his rookie season beyond the arc I guess none of that matters.

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COntrary to ridiculous belief, not every team has 4-5 3 point shooters on the floor.

Nope, but every good team does.

So name the 4 to 5 3 point shooters that San Antonio has in their starting lineup.

[AtLaS]

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How have three point shooting teams like Toronto faired in the post-season?

That's because they don't do anything BUT shoot threes and jumpshots, and I don't want that of course. We still have Smith/Horford for interior and JJ who is good when driving. Not to mention Law will be an effective slasher during his career. Toronto has TJ to score inside and that's basically it.

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Most CHAMPIONSHIP teams have a low post scorer. Duncan and Shaq have accounted for every NBA title except one since Jordan retired. Just about every elite team in the league has a low post scorer.

And EVERY elite team has good 3pt shooting. Please tell me what Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Matt Bonner, Bruce Bowen, Horry's offensive role's are on the team? Manu is also a 40+% 3pt shooter. Their lanes are wide open (compared to other teams) and it's usually why there isn't much help when Parker/Ginobili drive. EVERY other top team has many significant 3pt shooters that play significant minutes.

But you are right, a low post scoring presence would tremendously help this team, but how hard are those to find? Unless Horford becomes one we won't have one unless we trade Smoove or Horford for one, which may not be a bad idea in the future BTW.. Good low post scoring doesn't grow on trees and we aren't getting one for Marvin or Childress. But one thing we can fix is get a good SF who doesn't suck on defense and can knock down threes to take pressure off JJ. It would help everyone because the opposing defense would be more spread out and open up the lane for Smith/Horford/Law/JJ.

[AtLaS]

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Because of what he is capable of doing. The freaking guy came into the league as a guy that people thought could only SHOOT the ball.

If you thought that than you obviously didn't watch him much in college. One of his biggest question marks was the ability to hit threes when he joined the league. He was always thought to have a good midrange jumper though, and I don't know what happened to that. Regardless, after seeing him for an entire season it's obvious that the NBA 3pt line is currently out of his range, who cares what scouts said a year ago? That's like going back to 2005 and basing your current opinion of Marvin on scouts' words 3 years ago while disregarding everything you've SEEN for 3 years.

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So name the 4 to 5 3 point shooters that San Antonio has in their starting lineup.

This thread has obviously blown over your head. Who said I wanted 4-5 3pt shooters in our starting lineup? All I'm saying is that we need 3pt shooting in our lineup to spread the floor, and adding one at SF would be a perfect solution. Let's see, the Spurs have Parker who is a slashing PG, guess who their SG/SF's are? DEADLY 40+% 3pt shooters who play defense.