Childress and Marvin both need to go..

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Of course, as does Marvin and Childress. Do you not realize that it's MUCH harder to penetrate when teams pack the lane and basically force you to shoot?

Actually, guys like Marvin and Chill create their shot more than most of those spot-up 3-point shooters, because they do have the ability to put the ball on the floor and draw fouls. They get to the FT like almost 2 to 3 times more than those other guys too. But they both need to be set up, like those shooters, to maximize what they can do.

And the lane is not packed in our offense. When Chill is in the game, he's usually in the corner either behind or right on the 3 point line. Marvin usually sets up just inside the 3 point line. So there's more than enough room for a good PG to work and create.

Acie has no problem beating his man off the dribble and getting to the rim. His problem is making the right decision, once he gets into the lane. Bibby doesn't have the speed to beat good defending PGs off the dribble. That's why he struggled so much in this series. That, and he can't shoot worth a damn.

[AtLaS]

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And the lane is not packed in our offense. When Chill is in the game, he's usually in the corner either behind or right on the 3 point line. Marvin usually sets up just inside the 3 point line.

I'm not talking about our players, I'm talking about the defense and how they can play off our guys and pack the lane because they know we can't shoot. If Shaq is standing outside of the 3pt line is the defense going to guard him?

This is also why JJ gets more attention than almost any other offensive player in the NBA because we can't make them pay for it with good shooting. Kobe/Lebron see doubles, but NOTHING like you saw the Celtics doing with JJ. The Lakers/Cavs would start nailing threes and downright punish them.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The problem here, is that JJ is the guy who should be getting set up, not him having to set everyone else up. JJ should have the same role in our offense, as Paul Pierce in Boston's.

Instead, JJ has to play a Lebron type role for us, especially when Bibby is playing like crap. But that's unfair to JJ, because he isn't nearly as fast, strong, skilled or athletic as LeBron.

Boston doesn't ask Pierce to literally play the point and set up everybody, or be the decoy scorer to set up less talented guys. What we do with JJ, is like asking Ray Allen or Michael Redd to score, and set everybody up. It just shows you just how good JJ is, because JJ can at least halfway do it.

But if we had a PG that could break defenses down, JJ would be the prolific 3-point shooter/slasher/playmaker on the team ( ala Pierce ), and even a guy like Chill might be able to get more open looks on those corner 3's he likes to shoot. And Marvin would get a ton of open looks.

The PG is the problem, not he SFs.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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This thread has obviously blown over your head. Who said I wanted 4-5 3pt shooters in our starting lineup? All I'm saying is that we need 3pt shooting in our lineup to spread the floor, and adding one at SF would be a perfect solution. Let's see, the Spurs have Parker who is a slashing PG, guess who their SG/SF's are? DEADLY 40+% 3pt shooters who play defense.

I said:

" COntrary to ridiculous belief, not every team has 4-5 3 point shooters on the floor. "

And you said:

"Nope, but every good team does."

Not every elite team has more than 2-3 guys that can shoot the 3 exceptionally well.

As stated, a PG with break down ability would pur more pressure on the floor than just our SF simply adding more range on his shot.

[AtLaS]

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The problem here, is that JJ is the guy who should be getting set up, not him having to set everyone else up. JJ should have the same role in our offense, as Paul Pierce in Boston's.

Instead, JJ has to play a Lebron type role for us, especially when Bibby is playing like crap. But that's unfair to JJ, because he isn't nearly as fast, strong, skilled or athletic as LeBron.

Boston doesn't ask Pierce to literally play the point and set up everybody, or be the decoy scorer to set up less talented guys. What we do with JJ, is like asking Ray Allen or Michael Redd to score, and set everybody up. It just shows you just how good JJ is, because JJ can at least halfway do it.

But if we had a PG that could break defenses down, JJ would be the prolific 3-point shooter/slasher/playmaker on the team ( ala Pierce ), and even a guy like Chill might be able to get more open looks on those corner 3's he likes to shoot. And Marvin would get a ton of open looks.

The PG is the problem, not he SFs.

Good PGs don't exactly grow on trees, and they aren't easy to get.

And please name a successful team that sucked at threes as bad as we do. If our starting lineup remains the same, that means we will essentially have ONE 3pt shooter on the floor most of the time who is also our best player receiving all the attention, that doesn't work.

Do you realize WHY JJ recieves all that attention? Because we can't make open shots and make teams pay for it.

[AtLaS]

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I said:

" COntrary to ridiculous belief, not every team has 4-5 3 point shooters on the floor. "

And you said:

"Nope, but every good team does."

Not every elite team has more than 2-3 guys that can shoot the 3 exceptionally well.

As stated, a PG with break down ability would pur more pressure on the floor than just our SF simply adding more range on his shot.

I misread your quote. Please name one team who was successful and who's starting lineup who only had one three point shooter who was also the best player. The fact is you CAN'T.

YES we need better PG play, but if he drives and kicks, who makes the shot? I'm saying that this will be a problem that will haunt us down the road until we upgrade it. If Acie is to be our PG of the future, we NEED a shooter at SF. Otherwise we need to get a PG that can shoot. There are no successful teams that can't shoot the ball, period.

[Cwell]

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Not that our halfcourt offense is good anyway but the Celtics specialize in stop it for any NBA team. No one but JJ can create his own shot, Josh randomly might do it but doesn't. Just like usual Marvin gets to the line, important in more way then one. Were not a smart team, just plain and simple and that didn't have anything to do with Marvin or Chill but the WHOLE team. Chill really was the only conseient player in the whole series... Marvin was the best player in games 6 and 7. Shooters is not our problem, it's listening, playing a fast pace style vs a team who stuggles v. it and PLAYING SMART BASKETBALL. That what I seen.

Yes, the Celtics have a good defense. But we have been a terrible, terrible halfcourt team all season. Without shooters in our lineup, teams will ALWAYS be able to cover JJ better than top players on other teams. Lebron/Kobe/Wade don't see the INSTANT doubles like JJ because their teams have shooters to spread the floor. You cannot constantly double them.

Like I said, if Marvin develops LEGIT 3pt range next year I'm cool with keeping him, otherwise we'll NEVER be a good halfcourt team (meaning we'll never be a good team) because we won't be able to spread the floor. I would love to get someone like Mike Miller for Marvin or Childress.

Shooters help any team but if the shooters do not have high IQ what is the point. It's like put Salim in the game, he has low IQ but he ca shoot right. What about Eddie House, Kyle Korver... list goes on, you need a core and good offensive IQ to run a offense well. Look at Rondo, he was trash last season, put him with a vet squad and he looks like a good potienial PG.

Marvin becoming a shooter won't change anything if the Hawks aren't moving on offense and making smart decisions with the ball. That is what the Hawks need to work on. This is the same problem they had the last three seasons it's just that we have gotten better and have a much better core. u have no point.Rondo was a ROOKIE last year and didn't start.and House and Korver,they're just shooters period,they don't offer much else.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The problem here, is that JJ is the guy who should be getting set up, not him having to set everyone else up. JJ should have the same role in our offense, as Paul Pierce in Boston's.

Instead, JJ has to play a Lebron type role for us, especially when Bibby is playing like crap. But that's unfair to JJ, because he isn't nearly as fast, strong, skilled or athletic as LeBron.

Boston doesn't ask Pierce to literally play the point and set up everybody, or be the decoy scorer to set up less talented guys. What we do with JJ, is like asking Ray Allen or Michael Redd to score, and set everybody up. It just shows you just how good JJ is, because JJ can at least halfway do it.

But if we had a PG that could break defenses down, JJ would be the prolific 3-point shooter/slasher/playmaker on the team ( ala Pierce ), and even a guy like Chill might be able to get more open looks on those corner 3's he likes to shoot. And Marvin would get a ton of open looks.

The PG is the problem, not he SFs.

Good PGs don't exactly grow on trees, and they aren't easy to get.

And please name a successful team that sucked at threes as bad as we do. If our starting lineup remains the same, that means we will essentially have ONE 3pt shooter on the floor most of the time who is also our best player receiving all the attention, that doesn't work.

Do you realize WHY JJ recieves all that attention? Because we can't make open shots and make teams pay for it.

Atlas, Bibby is the PG. He's the one that should be creatng for JJ, not the other way around. Against mediocre or bad defensive teams, Bibby had little problem finding JJ for open 3s, and even finding his own offense. Against Boston, he had trouble just bringing the ball up the court against Rondo. Those first 2 games are the reason why JJ had to be the pseudo PG in the first place.

Chill, if wide open, can hit the 3 at least 35% of the time. Marvin does need to extend his range to 3 point land, but he even can hit wide open 20 footers.

You could put Peja Stoyokovic in place of Marvin, and we'd still have the same problem with the offense, because of the PG situation here. Teams would still double JJ to take the ball out of his hands. And a good team like Boston would double JJ, but stay at home on Peja, giving guys like Horford, Smoove, and Bibby open jumpers.

Bibby was the key to that series. If he hit shots while playing the point, that would keep Boston somewhat honest on defense. They didn't really start doubling JJ until he lit up Ray in Game 4.

If we had a penetrator like TJ Ford, that would've opened things up even more for JJ.

But a team won't survive long, when your best shooter also has to be your top playmaker and your post presence.

[Cwell]

Acie Law is that guy.

[AtLaS]

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You could put Peja Stoyokovic in place of Marvin, and we'd still have the same problem with the offense, because of the PG situation here.

I agree that we need better PG play, but we also need better shooting. And that is not my point at all, but we would be better with Peja. My point is that we need another shooter to spread the defense in our starting lineup, if Acie is our future PG who can shoot other than JJ who is our best player? Again, please name a SUCCESSFUL team that only had one 3pt shooter in their starting lineup who was also their best player. You can't name one, period. Why do you think that is?

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Bibby was the key to that series. If he hit shots while playing the point, that would keep Boston somewhat honest on defense. They didn't really start doubling JJ until he lit up Ray in Game 4.

I'm talking about our future, Bibby is not our PG of the future. Acie is and he's not a shooter. Why does JJ get more defensive attention than Lebron?? Cleveland doesn't have a PG at ALL, yet JJ STILL receives more attention than Lebron. You know why? Because they have 3pt shooters that will kill teams if they double and leave them open.

[Cwell]

Acie can knock down the shot like he did in college.He was off this year and refused to take the shot most of the time.but after a year of being a pro he knows how to prepare himself and how most 2nd year players he'll improve.He has all the tools,including the jumpshot.He'll give us a better shot than Bibby the shooter only.He should be more comfortable next year and won't pass up the shot as much and will hit.

[AtLaS]

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Acie can knock down the shot like he didn in college.He was off this year and refused to take the shot most of the time.but after a year of being a pro he knows how to prepare himself and how most 2nd year players he'll improve.He has all the tools,including the jumpshot.He'll give us a better shot than Bibby the shooter only.

I think Acie will have a good midrange game, but I don't see him being a 3pt shooter. He wasn't even a big 3pt shooter in college.

[Joker]

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You could put Peja Stoyokovic in place of Marvin, and we'd still have the same problem with the offense, because of the PG situation here.

I agree that we need better PG play, but we also need better shooting. And that is not my point at all, but we would be better with Peja. My point is that we need another shooter to spread the defense in our starting lineup, if Acie is our future PG who can shoot other than JJ who is our best player? Again, please name a SUCCESSFUL team that only had one 3pt shooter in their starting lineup who was also their best player. You can't name one, period. Why do you think that is?

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Bibby was the key to that series. If he hit shots while playing the point, that would keep Boston somewhat honest on defense. They didn't really start doubling JJ until he lit up Ray in Game 4.

I'm talking about our future, Bibby is not our PG of the future. Acie is and he's not a shooter. Why does JJ get more defensive attention than Lebron?? Cleveland doesn't have a PG at ALL, yet JJ STILL receives more attention than Lebron. You know why? Because they have 3pt shooters that will kill teams if they double and leave them open.

Bron recieves more attention, becuase the JJ lack of elite talent does it seem that way. Plus Boston is a great defensive team.

[thescout5]

There were shots in this game Chills nor Marvin hit them has well has others on the team. your supposed to hit wide open shots in the league thats why your a professional the key is hitting them when your covered. Neither Chills nor Marvin have an inside game, they weren't hitting their shots what offensive game do they bring?

The Hawks are already undersized what good will it be having Smoove and Marvin/Chills in the lineup you saw against a bigger team 4 losses by more than 20 points. True they won at home but both Chills and Marvin had one good game possibly 2 in a 7 game series thats not enough to consider having a small lineup in the future. Your small forward better bring alot more to the table than a jump shot thats iffy at best if you ever want to compete against the bigger teams in the West let alone the teams in the East.

Putting that same team out there:

1.Smoove

2.Marvin/Chills

3.Horford

4.JJ

5.Bibby

What chance do the Hawk's have of ever winning a championship against the bigger teams in the West? Boston will get beat and while its good the Hawk's won vs them losing those games by over 20 points lets us know how far the Hawk's have to go in order to compete against the Western Conference who will be the likely champion this year.

[AtLaS]

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Bron recieves more attention, becuase the JJ lack of elite talent does it seem that way. Plus Boston is a great defensive team.

No he doesn't. JJ has two guys on him as soon as he catches the ball. And this isn't only against Boston, JJ has seen these since last year. The whole side of the floor collapses to that side when JJ gets the ball. LeBron is ISO'd alot, as is Kobe. A lot more often than JJ.

[AtLaS]

Why do y'all think our offense got so much better after the Bibby trade? Because everytime people helped down to double JJ, he'd kick out to Bibby and he was hitting threes. This took pressure off of JJ and he won player of the month and player of the week numerous times.

Against Boston, they basically said SCREW Bibby and he couldn't hit shots to make them pay.

[Joker]

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Bron recieves more attention, becuase the JJ lack of elite talent does it seem that way. Plus Boston is a great defensive team.

No he doesn't. JJ has two guys on him as soon as he catches the ball. And this isn't only against Boston, JJ has seen these since last year. The whole side of the floor collapses to that side when JJ gets the ball. LeBron is ISO'd alot, as is Kobe. A lot more often than JJ.

Bron has more reliable players around him. He is a better passer. He can drive at will. He too good to double from the outside and he is not the best of shooters either. Too good of a ball handler... do you see where I'm going.

[AtLaS]

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Bron has more reliable players around him.

The CAVS have a better supporting cast than the Hawks? LOL

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He is a better passer. He can drive at will. He too good to double from the outside and he is not the best of shooters either. Too good of a ball handler... do you see where I'm going.

JJ is just as good a ballhandler as LeBron, probably passing as well. LeBron is just a freak athletically and size wise which gives him such a huge advantage. The fact is they have Gibson, Wally, West, Jones to spread the floor and doubling LeBron is painful. I'm not saying they don't double LeBron, but he doesn't have a whole side of the floor guarding him like JJ does. What happened last year when they tried it? Gibson goes off for like 30 that one game.

[Cwell]

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Acie can knock down the shot like he didn in college.He was off this year and refused to take the shot most of the time.but after a year of being a pro he knows how to prepare himself and how most 2nd year players he'll improve.He has all the tools,including the jumpshot.He'll give us a better shot than Bibby the shooter only.

I think Acie will have a good midrange game, but I don't see him being a 3pt shooter. He wasn't even a big 3pt shooter in college. he has the range and he can hit them.Just because it wasn't a huge part of his game doesn' mean he's not a threat.

[AtLaS]

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he has the range and he can hit them.Just because it wasn't a huge part of his game doesn' mean he's not a threat.

As of now Acie is not a perimeter threat at all. Whether he becomes one is up in the air, but doubtful IMO. I'm just hoping for a good midrange game.