About Stuckey, and rookies in general.

[thefloydian]

I've been seeing some posts about Stuckey, and how he might be better than Acie.

He's a good player, no doubt, but do you really think if the Hawks had drafted him he would be anywhere near as good as he is now? He got drafted by a team full of Veterans, with a coach who, while probably not one of the best, is at least competent. A lot of the flak our young players get should really be directed at the coaching staff.

I'm pretty sure if Acie had been drafted by the Pistons and Stuckey by the Hawks, no one would be arguing about who was better. In fact, no one outside of his immediate family would even know Stuckey was in the league.

[Seano]

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I've been seeing some posts about Stuckey, and how he might be better than Acie.

He's a good player, no doubt, but do you really think if the Hawks had drafted him he would be anywhere near as good as he is now? He got drafted by a team full of Veterans, with a coach who, while probably not one of the best, is at least competent. A lot of the flak our young players get should really be directed at the coaching staff.

I'm pretty sure if Acie had been drafted by the Pistons and Stuckey by the Hawks, no one would be arguing about who was better. In fact, no one outside of his immediate family would even know Stuckey was in the league.

Oh absolutely. I mean there's no doubt. It's so simple, and it's so completely obvious. Stuckey had the coach willing to give him a chance to play, while Acie was not blessed with that same good fortune. Saunders stuck (bwa-ha) with Stuckey through all his expected struggles and mistakes as a rookie player getting acclimated to the NBA, which is exactly what you have to do if you want a guy to learn. It can only happen through experience. Stuckey was afforded that luxury- while Acie, the Atlanta Hawks, and really the entire organization and fanbase got short-changed....and that is all on Woodson.

So we go into year 2 with no absolutely no idea what we've got in Acie Law. That to me is inexcusable.

I wish they'd just make the break complete and say goodbye to Woody along with BK. It's time for a whole new start.

[lunar]

situation has alot to do with how well rookies progress especially in their first season. stuckey landed in a place where his mistakes weren't the difference between a win and a loss. he could cause 2 turnovers and detroit would still win by 11 so flip had the luxury of keeping him on the floor which is playing dividends right now.

in atlanta 2 turnovers is the difference between us taking boston 7 games into the playoffs rejuvenating the city and us watching phoenix at the draft lottery thinking about which superstar would look best catching steve nash lobs.

law should have plenty chances to play this year now that he is entreched as the teams backup point (last year we had a three-man carousel at the 1 which lue, johnson, and law) and i think he could going to have a solid year. but last year law was a victim of circumstance and bad luck (getting hurt just when he could have gotten hold of the starting job. )

[Cwell]

sorry but that is bull,before Woody started affecting his confindence after the injuries we wasted more possessions because of Lue than Law.AJ didn't do much either as a PG.AJ is a certified nobody in the NBA but even he overachieved for awhile and that's because HE GOT THE MINUTES,as well as playing with the starting 5,the best players on the team besides at the SF spot.AJ and Lue and even Bibby automatically get the chance no matter how good they played,with Acie it doesn't matter,he's coming out of the game.

Just playing with our backups that Woody plays makes it even harder on him as a PG.He can do all he wants and hit a guy with a great pass and an easy shot,but the likes of Childress,Zaza,Marvin,Shelden,Wright etc. can't convert unless it's into a TO,counted against Law's stats (which is another reason I hate stats).The game is about confidence,especially when asking him to score.Looking at Stuckey he has free reign to not hesitate to let a rip on jumpers and other shots.Acie shoots and misses one he's out of the game in 1 minute tops.

Look at game 2,Acie came in after not playing much in a while.first play is a TO and a layup for Boston,Woody usually pulls him a little after that.He goes on to put on a great show.One play he knocked away an entry pass coralled it,took off on the break and fires up an alley for smoove.Smoove has to get fouled from behind.I hadn't seen that from Acie all year.He finished with 12 points in 21 minutes.Stuckey gets about 20 minutes a night.It shows who how much of Acie's game we missed this year because Woody is dumazz.If he wasn't atleast in the top 10 in rookie voting he should have atleast been in the rookie game with Horford,but our dumb coach prevented that.

That was Lw's starting job.He outplayed everyone for it and when he got hurt he shoudl have reassumed it when he came back.Aj didn't out play him while he was out.another dumb Woody action.We would have been better off and not needed to trade for Bibby.Only an idiot like Woody would give Salim Acie's minutes,especially right before the playoffs.

[vdunkndunk]

Stuckey is a better prospect, period. The Hawks were stupid to pass on him for Law. Stuckey is bigger, longer, quicker, and more athletic, and has just as much skill - and he's two years younger. If he'd played at a bigger program he would have gone before Law and we'd be better off. Woody didn't seem to have a problem playing Horford, did he? No. The one thing I'm excited about is that we finally have a new GM who might, for once, make the right pick.

[Cwell]

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Stuckey is a better prospect, period. The Hawks were stupid to pass on him for Law. Stuckey is bigger, longer, quicker, and more athletic, and has just as much skill - and he's two years younger. If he'd played at a bigger program he would have gone before Law and we'd be better off. Woody didn't seem to have a problem playing Horford, did he? No. The one thing I'm excited about is that we finally have a new GM who might, for once, make the right pick.

lol,woody benched Horford for zaza 2 or 3 times after he came back from injury.Law got that starting job then he got hurt.I bet Law will have the better career.Stuckey looks more like a SG anyway.

[vdunkndunk]

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I bet Law will have the better career.Stuckey looks more like a SG anyway.

Why? Why will Law have the better career? Stuckey is younger, longer, quicker, more athletic, and just as skilled (if not more so). He also badly outplayed Law during summer league, when Law was given every possible chance to play. Then Stuckey had a better rookie season, too, and he's two years younger.

And Law wasn't even an NBA prospect until after his junior year, and even then he was only considered a second-rounder. It took him until his senior year to move into the first round, whereas Stuckey was a near lotter pick after his sophomore year while playing at a small school. If Stuckey received big-time scholarship offers but went to a smaller school because of academic problems. If he had played in the Pac-10, where he had committed to play, he would have been a top 10 pick.

I still think Law has a future in this league, but he wasn't the right pick.

[Guest]

The reason why Law didn't play was because we were worse offensively and defensively when he was on the court. We scored 5.3 less ppg and gave up 2 more ppg ( http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL2D.HTM ). He had the worst Roland Rating, PER, TS%, eFG%, and Wins Produced per 48 out of all our regulars. None of those stats are affected by how many minutes you play, they are only based on your time on the court which is directly affected by how Acie plays. He simply wasn't good at all this year.

Stuckey on the other hand continues to play well and actually contributes to his team's success.

[Kimsey]

Stuckey is the better overall prospect, period, point blank.

They are both considered scoring/combo guards and Stuckey is the more versatile/better scorer at this point. He is much stronger than AC.

[exodus]

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The reason why Law didn't play was because we were worse offensively and defensively when he was on the court. We scored 5.3 less ppg and gave up 2 more ppg (

http://www.82games.com/0708/07ATL2D.HTM

). He had the worst Roland Rating, PER, TS%, eFG%, and Wins Produced per 48 out of all our regulars. None of those stats are affected by how many minutes you play, they are only based on your time on the court which is directly affected by how Acie plays. He simply wasn't good at all this year.

Stuckey on the other hand continues to play well and actually contributes to his team's success.

Detroit was -7 ppg with Stuckey on the court during the season, same as Law.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07DET4D.HTM

He shot 40% just like Law. He struggled finishing inside and with his jumper.

http://www.82games.com/0708/07DET4A.HTM

[Cwell]

exactly.Those dumb stats don't say well he was playing with guys who COULDN'T score.so duh they are gonna score less points.duh the bench (as bad as ours is)is gonna score less than the starters.He doesn't have the same freedom as Stuckey does,and physical attributes mean nothing.Those guys are the main ones that fail.It's more to it than that.U have to combine your physical skills with smarts and instincs.Since y'all love stats so much don't be one sided.I'm never gonna look there but this time exodus did it for me.If u gonna down Law look at the same for Stuckey.

[vdunkndunk]

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exactly.Those dumb stats don't say well he was playing with guys who COULDN'T score...If u gonna down Law look at the same for Stuckey.

Stuckey is two years younger, yet his PER was almost twice Law's. That's not a good sign.

Law's PER: 7.73

Stuckey's PER: 13.80

And Stuckey broke his wrist at the beginning of the season and took a while to get back into form, so it's not like Law is the only one with an injury excuse.

[exodus]

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exactly.Those dumb stats don't say well he was playing with guys who COULDN'T score...If u gonna down Law look at the same for Stuckey.

Stuckey is two years younger, yet his PER was almost twice Law's. That's not a good sign.

Law's PER: 7.73

Stuckey's PER: 13.80

And Stuckey broke his wrist at the beginning of the season and took a while to get back into form, so it's not like Law is the only one with an injury excuse.

Law had two injuries, not one. He also played hurt coming back from both. When he came back the first time he couldn't jump off his left foot which hurt his ability to finish inside. Plus a foot/leg injury is harder to come back from than a hand injury in terms of conditioning. You can still run with a bad hand.

Law was playing with a brace on his hand the second time he came back.

Stuckey is averaging 8/3 in the playoffs shooting 40% and people are acting like he is Magic or something.

[Cwell]

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exactly.Those dumb stats don't say well he was playing with guys who COULDN'T score...If u gonna down Law look at the same for Stuckey.

Stuckey is two years younger, yet his PER was almost twice Law's. That's not a good sign.

Law's PER: 7.73

Stuckey's PER: 13.80

And Stuckey broke his wrist at the beginning of the season and took a while to get back into form, so it's not like Law is the only one with an injury excuse.

Law had two injuries, not one. He also played hurt coming back from both. When he came back the first time he couldn't jump off his left foot which hurt his ability to finish inside. Plus a foot/leg injury is harder to come back from than a hand injury in terms of conditioning. You can still run with a bad hand.

Law was playing with a brace on his hand the second time he came back.

Stuckey is averaging 8/3 in the playoffs shooting 40% and people are acting like he is Magic or something. and there was 3 strings of games he missed.a little after he came back from the FLUKE ankle injury he missed like 2 games because of a knee injury or it was his ankle again i'm not sure.f a damn per,whatever the hell it is.that's not a stat,I don't care what it means.Stuckey had an injury yet he only had 3 games under 10 minutes.Acie had 20 games under 10 mintes.it doesn't matter who is younger or more athletic.The guy in the better situation is gonna succeed when the game with the retarded organization from top to bottom won't be as good as expected.

[Guest]

I guess I should have also pointed out that with Acie on the court, our team was outscored by 7.8 points while with him off the court we were outscored by only .5 points. For Stuckey, they outscored opponents by 3.2 points and with him off the court they outscored by 10 points. He was still a contributor for the team, not a detriment like Acie was when he was on the court. You also have to take into account that Stuckey is backing up two All-Stars who clearly will produce at a higher level which accounts for his difference. Acie is backing up Anthony Johnson, T-Lue, and Bibby and he is being handily outplayed by those guys statistically.

The numbers are still a small sample, but as of right now Acie hasn't shown anything statistically that he will be a contributor for this team and is more likely to be Speedy Claxton than Chauncey Billups. Stuckey on the other hand has been contributing, not hindering along with being 2 years younger and physically better.

[Guest]

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Law had two injuries, not one. He also played hurt coming back from both. When he came back the first time he couldn't jump off his left foot which hurt his ability to finish inside. Plus a foot/leg injury is harder to come back from than a hand injury in terms of conditioning. You can still run with a bad hand.

Speedy Claxton, except its not Acie's knees its his wrists and he also has these other "fluke" injuries. This dude is far closer to being officially labeled injury-prone than a below-average starter at this stage. It is scary how similar the two are. The injuries, the sudden rise to being a draft pick as a senior from a college that wasn't very good until their senior year. Even their college stats are similar.

[exodus]

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You also have to take into account that Stuckey is backing up two All-Stars who clearly will produce at a higher level which accounts for his difference.

You also have to take into account that Detroit has one of the strongest benches in the league, Atlanta one of the worst. When Acie drives and kicks out to Zaza, Shelden or Blo the results are predictable.

In spite of playing with far inferior players Acie still had a higher assist ratio than Stuckey. Acie also had the best +/- with the starters of any pg we had this year. Acie with the starters had the highest win % of any 5 man unit.

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708ATL2.HTM

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guess I should have also pointed out that with Acie on the court, our team was outscored by 7.8 points while with him off the court we were outscored by only .5 points. For Stuckey, they outscored opponents by 3.2 points and with him off the court they outscored by 10 points.

That distinction just means that Detroit is an elite team and the Hawks are a losing team.

[AmishBoy]

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guess I should have also pointed out that with Acie on the court, our team was outscored by 7.8 points while with him off the court we were outscored by only .5 points. For Stuckey, they outscored opponents by 3.2 points and with him off the court they outscored by 10 points.

Difference between 10 and 3.2 is 6.8

Differnce between .5 and 7.8 is 7.3

Half a point. They outscored opponents and we didn't but the overall impact is pretty much the same.

[mattlanta]

This is what we've been trying to tell the Stuckey lovers / Acie haters all year. There's no way Stuckey could have come into Atlanta with Woodson as our coach and improve as he did his rookie year. Not to mention the teammates that Stuckey has - all he really has to do is stick with the plays. Law, on the other hand, has to set up his offense and lead it.

I really hope Law gets more playing time next year so that he may improve. I'd hate to see talent get wasted because of a coach who hates playing rookies...

[Guest]

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That distinction just means that Detroit is an elite team and the Hawks are a losing team.

I notice you don't even take into account Stuckey backs up all-stars because that would hurt your argument. And drawing that conclusion from what I said is fairly offbase.

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In spite of playing with far inferior players Acie still had a higher assist ratio than Stuckey. Acie also had the best +/- with the starters of any pg we had this year. Acie with the starters had the highest win % of any 5 man unit.

Stuckey isn't a PG, so it is understandable he doesn't have a higher assist ratio than a PG. And its also commical that you are using one of your, as Walter says, statistics that are based on night games on wednesdays with left handed players on the court and in the central time zone. Highest +/- with the starters? That is one small stat that really doesn't trump any of the other major statistical lackings that Acie has.