SUND is a HACK-Make no mistakes about it!

[Wurider05]

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I've come to expect no less from this fan base though. It didn't matter who the Hawks hired this offseason, most of you were going to criticize the move.

I like how some fans want to criticize this move or criticize some of the candidates the Hawks interviewed, but none of them can bring up LEGITIMATE candidates that they believe would be better for this team.

I am not knocking Sund. I am knocking the fact that he is coming into a situation where ownership has already decided to keep Woody (most likely) He had to have known that he wasn't going to have real power here. He is just going to be a yes man.

[TheDude]

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I've come to expect no less from this fan base though. It didn't matter who the Hawks hired this offseason, most of you were going to criticize the move.

I like how some fans want to criticize this move or criticize some of the candidates the Hawks interviewed, but none of them can bring up LEGITIMATE candidates that they believe would be better for this team.

while i think i've come to terms with Sund, this is a ridiculous sentiment...first of all names of GMs have been throw all over this board for weeks that were legitmate and second, just like some people will complain no matter what, SOME PEOPLE will defend our managment no matter what they do....

[frosgrim]

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I've come to expect no less from this fan base though. It didn't matter who the Hawks hired this offseason, most of you were going to criticize the move.

I like how some fans want to criticize this move or criticize some of the candidates the Hawks interviewed, but none of them can bring up LEGITIMATE candidates that they believe would be better for this team.

while i think i've come to terms with Sund, this is a ridiculous sentiment...first of all names of GMs have been throw all over this board for weeks that were legitmate and second, just like some people will complain no matter what, SOME PEOPLE will defend our managment no matter what they do....

QFT- KB is just being the petulent child that he is.

[AHF]

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No, Lewis had a player option so he wasn't an UFA but he did opt out and was able to sign with the Magic but the Magic needed to acquire him in trade and that's why they made the trade.

What is the difference between being an UFA and a player with a player option on his contract?

Nothing - expect the player has even more power than as an UFA because he can exercise his option and get a contract with his current team if he wants. If he opts out, he is an UFA.

[KB21]

You aren't knocking Rick Sund, yet you called him a hack in the title of the thread?

Now, you seem to be going with the idea that the GM for the Hawks is going to be a puppet, which there is absolutely no factual basis to even form that opinion.

[Admin]

As far as I understand, the difference is that Seattle had the ability to SnT Lewis because they could offer him an additional year on his contract, which I believe is what happened and why they got a future conditional 2nd round pick for him. I don't believe you can do that with regular UFA's.

[exodus]

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You aren't knocking Rick Sund, yet you called him a hack in the title of the thread?

Now, you seem to be going with the idea that the GM for the Hawks is going to be a puppet, which there is

absolutely no factual basis to even form that opinion

.

Yeah it isn't like the owners meddled in BK's moves, refusing to fire the coach.

[exodus]

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As far as I understand, the difference is that Seattle had the ability to SnT Lewis because

they could offer him an additional year on his contract

, which I believe is what happened and why they got a future conditional 2nd round pick for him. I don't believe you can do that with regular UFA's.

Yes you can. it has nothing to do with his option. It is about his Bird Rights.

[Admin]

What are the rules for being able to SnT an UFA?

[Guest]

SNT can only occur with players you previously had under contract. So even though the Hawks had cap space they couldn't SNT Lewis last summer. There is no difference in restrictions between an RFA and a UFA for SNT. You can come into issues with BYC, but that can happen with either a RFA or UFA so I don't think that is an issue that one can say is a difference between RFA/UFA since both can have BYC.

[Admin]

Hmm, I didn't realize that you could sign and trade an UFA, but I guess it makes sense. For some reason I thought that only applied to guys who were RFA. Thanks for clarifying.

[AHF]

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What are the rules for being able to SnT an UFA?

76. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players who have been renounced, but cannot be made when the player is signed using the Mid-Level, Bi-Annual or Disabled Player exceptions. Sign-and-trade contracts must be for three years or longer, but only the first season of the contract must be guaranteed. The three year minimum (even though the last two seasons may be non-guaranteed) ensures that the new team will not acquire Bird rights to the player any sooner than if they had signed him directly, because if they want to give him a new contract using Bird rights then they would have to waive him first, which resets the Bird clock.

One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 73 for more information on BYC), so the player's BYC value must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.

If a sign-and-trade contract contains a signing bonus, then either team can pay it. By default the team that signs the player pays the signing bonus (as with any other contract), but since a sign-and-trade is in essence a contract with the receiving team, the teams can agree that the receiving team will pay it. However, any portion that is paid by the signing team counts toward the $3 million limit for cash included in a trade (which in effect limits the portion of a signing bonus that can be paid by the signing team to $3 million).

If a sign-and-trade contract contains a trade bonus, then the bonus is not earned upon the trade that accompanies the signing, but rather on the first subsequent trade.

See question number 80 for more information on how long a team must wait after signing a contract before they can trade a player.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#76

[exodus]

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What are the rules for being able to SnT an UFA?

If you have a players Bird Rights you can exceed the cap to resign him and offer an extra year with higher raises. That way it gives the current team an advantage in resigning a player.

It also gives a player an incentive, if he really wants to leave, to allow a SNT to happen so his current team will get something in return.

[exodus]

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Hmm, I didn't realize that you could sign and trade an UFA, but I guess it makes sense. For some reason I thought that only applied to guys who were RFA. Thanks for clarifying.

Harrington was a UFA.

[Admin]

That's too far back in the past for me to remember the details, too many cold beers since then I suppose LOL.

[Guest Walter]

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I don't know enough about Rick Sund to like or dislike the hire.

Frankly, this is where I'm at. He looks like at least a slight upgrade over BK and we couldn't expect much more given our ownership situation. I look at this as a big positive. I didn't expect anybody to want this job and a vetted GM did. That says to me we may have more opportunity to get a worthy coach than I originally thought.

W