Move Joe Johnson

[Diesel]

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It is a death knell to only have 2 players on the court that can shoot 3's.

You can't be serious.

First of all, it's not how many players we have on the court, it's how many threes have they hit.

JJ hit 169 three pointers.

Bibby was on tract to hit 177 three pointers.

You can't find a team in the league (winning or otherwise) that can match that.

The problem with our offense is not the three point shooting. The problem with our offense is scheme altogether. We need a top assistant to take offense out of Wood's hands and put some movement into the offense. Our offense forces JJ to hold the ball and try to make something happen. It's no movement, no passing in the offense. Just a bunch of guys trying to go 1 on 1. We can correct that without having to bring in another guy. Moreover, we have more shooters coming off the bench. Salim hit 50 three pointers without playing. Richardson is good from range. We need an offensive scheme and Wood doesn't provide that.

[Diesel]

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if we get a SG we need one that can shoot and score. he doesnt have to average 20 but since jj will give us 23, smoove 18 and horford 14

i think 16 points from our starting SG will be nice.

Jr. Smith and Mike Miller are the only 2 i can think OF.

LOL . . so why get rid of Marvin then? He's already giving us 15 ppg.

You are right about one thing though. If you trade Marvin, get a guy who can shoot AND create his own shot.

RAJA BELL!

[exodus]

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We are already the second worst perimeter shooting team in the NBA. I don't see how moving Smith to the 3 will help that. Not to mention it takes our shotblocker away from the basket trying to guard players quicker than him.

For the second half of the year (with Bibby), we finished 8th in the league in 3 pt%.

Bibby hit 69 Three pointers in 32 games. Prorated, that's 177 in 82 games. That's right up that with JJ.

AJ and Lue hit a combined 57 threes in 42 games and we were 17th ranked in 3 pt%.

I don't think the number of 3 pters we hit are going to matter.

Moreover, your argument is KEEP MARVIN AT the 3.

You cry about the Hawks three point ability with Smoove at 3... Well, the truth is that Marvin only shot 10 three pointers on the season? And he hit 1. How is keeping Marvin at the 3 helping our three point shooting?

Here's the bottom line. You put Smoove at the 3, Horf at the 4... Then you have a team that has Horf playing in position and I believe he'd be a better scorer playing in his natural position.

So i guess that means you want Bibby here long term?

I will be sure to note this in your future trade proposals.

Smith shot 29% on his long 2 pt jumpers, Marvin 41%. Just because Marvin doesn't take 3s doesn't mean he isn't scoring from the perimeter.

[TheDude]

if there were some way to trade marvin for red, i would be soo stoked.

[Wretch]

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The problem with our offense is not the three point shooting. The problem with our offense is scheme altogether. We need a top assistant to take offense out of Wood's hands and put some movement into the offense. Our offense forces JJ to hold the ball and try to make something happen. It's no movement, no passing in the offense. Just a bunch of guys trying to go 1 on 1. We can correct that without having to bring in another guy.

QFT.

It made me so sick to watch as Boston sent the 5 guys on the court, 4 guys off the bench, Doc, two refs, and 10 fans from the crowd all at JJ...and watch as we continued to dump it to him hoping that he could make something happen.

[Admin]

Let's say Bibby did hit those 177 3pters that would give our "Big 2" 346 for the season.

To compare, Orlando's "Big 2" hit 392 3pters.

Orlando averaged 9.8 3pt makes per game, tops in the league. Atlanta averaged 4.7 3pt makes per game, 27th in the league. Even with Bibby we are no better than the mid teens in 3pt shooting.

[exodus]

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if there were some way to trade marvin for red, i would be soo stoked.

Bibby/Marvin for Redd/Mason works capwise and some Bucks fans seem ok with it.

[Admin]

We would be in awful shape at the PG spot though. We would have to pray that Acie was ready to start and we would still have to find 1 or 2 capable guys to back him up.

I wonder if they would do Bibby/Marvin for Redd/Mo Williams? Mo is BYC so that trade should be able to work dollars wise and it would give us a sweet shooting PG and a very good offensive trio of Mo at the 1, Redd at the 2, and JJ at the 3.

[exodus]

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We would be in awful shape at the PG spot though. We would have to pray that Acie was ready to start and we would still have to find 1 or 2 capable guys to back him up.

So what? If you have a chance to make a huge upgrade you take it and worry about everything else later.

JJ is basically our pg in the half court set anyway. Redd would take a lot of the defensive pressure off JJ.

We have to sign another pg even with Bibby. I say trade him and let Acie sink or swim so we will know what we have in Acie.

[Admin]

So what? Right now we have 2 PGs and very little money to sign another. You are condoning trading 1 of those PGs so that we would only have 1 left and still very little money to sign not one, but now 2 PGs. It doesn't matter how good of a ball handler JJ or Redd are, we still need to have 3 healthy PG bodies on our roster if we plan to compete all year. No way can we depend on Acie alone, not to mention depend on him to stay healthy.

[exodus]

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So what? Right now we have 2 PGs and very little money to sign another. You are condoning trading 1 of those PGs so that we would only have 1 left and still very little money to sign not one, but now 2 PGs. It doesn't matter how good of a ball handler JJ or Redd are, we still need to have 3 healthy PG bodies on our roster if we plan to compete all year. No way can we depend on Acie alone, not to mention depend on him to stay healthy.

It isn't like this team is going to be title contenders next year. Sometimes to upgrade the roster you have to be willing to take some risks.

Playing it safe isn't going to cut it given how many draft misses we have had.

[Admin]

But you think it's a good idea to only have 1 PG on the roster, who has already proven himself to be injury prone, going into next season? That doesn't sound like a risk, that's like covering your hand in raw meat and putting it in front of a pit bull and hoping that he won't bite you.

I'm fine with trading Bibby/Marvin for Redd but I want Mo Williams instead of Mason or there better be another deal lined up with Childress or Zaza to bring in another PG.

[frosgrim]

The Redd/Mason deal actually has another spin-off it allows the Hawks to use Childress to get another PG in an SNT.

Mason then becomse the primary bu at SF and a part-time SG.

We don't need Childress in that situation nearly as much as we do now.

Thus, Childress could be used to get a vet PG from a team that needs a good baseline SF. E.g. Portland who could really use a guy like Chil. We could also try to get Ford from Raps.

Just some ideas on what you can do. IMO, the Hawks need to make two major moves to get into the 50 win level. That can happen this summer if the right moves are made. This is why I think we'll see Sund make a move that has everyone scratching their heads, but then it will be more clear when the second move is made.

[Admin]

If there is a follow up deal that gets us a guy like Calderon, Ford, etc. who can start at PG for us then I would be fine with it. Ford would concern me because he isn't much of a shooter, but if he can stay healthy and break down the D be able to kick out to Redd and JJ on the perimeter would be pretty sweet. I'd rather have Calderon but that would require us giving up more than Chidress alone I think.

I don't think I would take any of Portlands PGs straight up for Chillz. They have quality backup caliber PGs but that's it.

I hope you are right and I hope that we make some deals this offseason, but I won't hold my breath.

[TheDude]

well i prefer chill to mason....i would do the mo/red for marv/bib trade that dolf talked about...if we can't and it HAS to be mason/red for marv/bib then i'd then turn around and trade mason once more if that is possible under the rules...we could trade him for a decent backup pg i feel....

i do think we can do the sink or swim with acie however we still need solid backups at that position..

[exodus]

I am hoping the Hawks renounce Childress and sign Roger Mason regardless of what they do with Bibby. Mason can back up the 1 and 2 and he can hit 3s, even off the dribble.

[Guest Walter]

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if there were some way to trade marvin for red, i would be soo stoked.

Bibby/Marvin for Redd/Mason works capwise and some Bucks fans seem ok with it.

With Redd and JJ a Pg wouldn't have to do very much. Mason would also allow us to keep or trade either him or Childress for a Pg. Consider a resigned Childress/ZaZa/Law for a resigned Calderon/Brezec and maybe Moon or Delfino.

Lineup?

Calderon/Law

Redd/Mason

JJ/Mason/?

JS/? - insert vet defensive big -

Horford/Andersen/Brezec

Walter

[coachx]

I like the idea of having JJ play SF......by the time he is 30 he will be a full time SF any way.

I also like the idea of getting a SF with 3 point range while still having slashing ability.

1.a. Richard Jefferson - both Jefferson and Magattee can defend, slash, and shoot the 3.

1.b. Corey Magattee - worse attitude then Jefferson

3. Mike Miller - can shoot the 3 at an elite level but will be a defensive liability. worse defender then Marvin and would put more of a defensive strain on JJ

Come the trade deadline, if Law is playing well, I can see Bibby and either Chillz or Marvin being traded away for one of those 3.

[exodus]

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if there were some way to trade marvin for red, i would be soo stoked.

Bibby/Marvin for Redd/Mason works capwise and some Bucks fans seem ok with it.

With Redd and JJ a Pg wouldn't have to do very much. Mason would also allow us to keep or trade either him or Childress for a Pg. Consider a resigned Childress/ZaZa/Law for a resigned Calderon/Brezec and maybe Moon or Delfino.

Lineup?

Calderon/Law

Redd/Mason

JJ/Mason/?

JS/? - insert vet defensive big -

Horford/Andersen/Brezec

Walter

We had a discussion about this on a Bucks board and they seemed pretty open to it. They just seem to be ready to blow it up and build around Bogut.

I think Redd is a bit underrated. His ability to score is no joke.

[Admin]

He is vastly underrated as a defender as well. People forget that he was known as a defender coming out of college. He would be as good defensively at SG as JJ is and JJ would be as good as Marvin at SF. The key will be to remain solid offensively at PG but improve there defensively.