Woodson believes he deserves to return

bronnt · May 31, 2008

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You can't think of anything he is good at? So that means you can think of a lot of things he is bad at, right? What are those bad things? Why is he bad at them?

People have been throwing out things that Woody has done badly this entire thread. You're just being ridiculous at this point.

1) Quote from Joe Johnson: "We can't spread the floor, and we can't run high pick-and-rolls against a zone." Hey, look, we can't do the most BASIC things on offense. These are two things you learn to do when you're playing in junior high.

2) Our offense basically has JJ isolated at the top of the key, one guard standing on the baseline outside the three point line, and three guys standing inside the arc under the three point line, in the general vicinity of the basket, sort of clumped up. If you recognize this look, it's because we use it on no less than 60% of our half court offensive possessions.

3) Our defense is very uneven. Some people point out that we're constantly switching, but this puts in situations where Bibby actually ends up on KG (go back and watch the film if you don't believe me). That's a horrible situation to be in on defense, and it usually ends up with KG getting the basket-and-one.

4) Our substitions are a mess. Mike Woodson overreacts to the most ridiculous of events. There was one game against Golden State where Al Horford had been sitting for a while, then came back in during the fourth quarter. Almost immediately, Golden State ran a play that saw Austin Croshere making a three over Al's outstretched arms. Mike Woodson saw this and immediately took Al out of the game until the end. So, in conclusion, he took Al Horford out of the game because Austin Croshere made a three pointer. If you're the Hawks, I think that's a scenario which I'd take every time down the court-Austin Croshere getting the ball off of a screen and taking a deep jumper. We ending up getting killed after Horford left. But he never came back in.

5) During the series against the Celtics, the Hawks sat Al Horford for the entire second quarter of game 4. This resulted in the famous Zaza/KG staredown, but honestly, Al Horford is too good to be sitting just because he has 2 fouls. It's not even foul trouble at that point. Josh Smith later picked up his second foul. Our frontcourt for the last 3:31 of the first half was Soloman Jones and Zaza Pachulia. Somehow, they played the Celtics pretty much even, despite neither of them really doing anything. Solo got one rebound (and one block on the much smaller Rondo), and Zaza got no rebounds and 2 points during that stretch. You may remember people spouting superlatives about Soloman's hustle and determination after that block of Rondo...we've seen Josh Smith do that literally hundreds of times! It was great that Solo replicated the results, but in 3:31, I'd like to think that JSmoove comes up with more than one rebound and one block. There was one sequence that saw the ball bounces off of Soloman's hands, bounce off of Zaza, then bounce off of Solo's hands again to end up out of bounds. These things happen with your starting front court bench for no reason at all.

6) Have I pointed out that our substitutions are a mess? Joe Johnson picked up his second foul early in the second quarter in game 5 against the Celtics. When he left, we were down by three. When he back in, very late in the first half, we were down by 13. Joe Johnson ended the game with 2 fouls. Why? Because he has one of the lowest damn foul rates of anyone in the NBA.

7) Mike Woodson commenting on the differential between home/away games during the playoff series with the Celtics. "We play so well at home and on the road it's like two totally different teams. I don't know what it is. It might be the focus or the crowd might be getting to us." He doesn't know what it is? As the head coach, I would hope he'd know something. Maybe point out that the Hawks are missing shots, or are failing in their defensive substitions, or that they are shooting fewer foul shots. But nope, he just doesn't know.

8) Trust me, I'm not running out of things to say yet. There was that one game that I remember quite clearly, against the 76ers, in which Al Horford essentially fouled out with two fouls. I can't explain what the deal was. He's our starting center, our best rebounder, and I can't say enough surperlative things about how much he has helped this team. Anyway, Al Horford was taken out late in teh 3rd quarter with one foul. No big deal. But then he sat for the first 6 minutes and 16 seconds of the fourth quarter. He came in, and then Andre Miller ended up getting a deep offensive rebound a couple minutes later and took off running down the court. The only person who was in a position to get in his way (and this really boggles my mind, since Horford is a center and usually would be under the basket during a rebound opportunity) was Al Horford. He attempted to get in front of Miller only to have Andre Miller blow past him and get fouled. Woodson then immediately Al back out of the game after he'd been in for about 2 and a half minutes. Al did not get back into the game. Why was he sitting for so long? Oh, and I should point out that Al was on the bench while Marvin Williams was guarding Samuel Dalembert. This is after Marvin Williams was taken off of guarding Andre Iguodala because Iguodala abused him for baskets on consecutive possessions. I repeat, Marvin Williams was guarding Samuel Dalembert because he couldn't guard Iguodala, while Al Horford sat ont he bench with two fouls. Ridiculous, right?

9) I'm hungy. I'm gonna get some lunch. More to come, if you wish to hear it.

thefloydian · May 31, 2008

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You can't think of anything he is good at? So that means you can think of a lot of things he is bad at, right? What are those bad things? Why is he bad at them?

This dodging of the question is getting tiresome.

Diesel · May 31, 2008

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You make the statement because we won the games, that means that we're automatically good.

Nope, I didn't make that statement. I never said we are good, I said we are BETTER with Bibby than without as our record showed.

No... You said:

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The point is that we were a better team with Bibby than without, which

proves to me that we can win with Woody

and all he needed was a PG.

The point is that the two has nothing to do with one another. Our winning streak doesn't prove that we can "Win with Woody". Because we can say for certain that we're good with Woody coaching.

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Fri 04 vs Philadelphia L 104-109

Sat 05 @ Philadelphia W 92-85

Tue 08 @ Indiana L 98-112

Fri 11 @ New York W 116-104

Sat 12 vs Boston L 89-99

Tue 15 vs Orlando L 105-121

This is the crucial part of our season. With Bibby and we went 2-4. Does this suggest that we can "Win with Woody"? I don't think so.

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We played some very good teams and some bad teams during the 2nd half of the season and we played .500 ball with Bibby. We lost depth, Bibby was injured, and we still played .500 ball. So what happened that made us better? Did Woody all of the sudden become a "good" coach?

What happen was a collage of things. First, we did get Bibby and he added more offense. 2nd, we had continuity instead of a constant changing of PGs. However, I think those two things are minor compared to the fact that we played some horrible teams...

Here's the Bibby games.

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Tue 19 @ LA Lakers L 93-122

Wed 20 @ Sacramento L 107-119

Fri 22 @ Golden State W 117-110

Sat 23 @ Utah L 94-100

Mon 25 @ San Antonio L 74-89

Wed 27 vs Sacramento W 123-117

Fri 29 vs New York W 99-93

Sun 02 @ Boston L 88-98

Tue 04 vs Golden State L 118-135

Wed 05 @ New Orleans L 101-116

Fri 07 @ Charlotte L 93-108

Sat 08 vs Miami W 97-94

Mon 10 @ Orlando L 112-123

Wed 12 vs Houston L 75-83

Fri 14 vs LA Clippers W 117-93

Sun 16 @ New York W 109-98

Mon 17 @ Washington W 105-96

Wed 19 @ New Jersey L 117-125

Sat 22 vs Orlando W 98-90

Tue 25 @ Chicago L 94-103

Wed 26 vs Milwaukee W 115-96

Fri 28 vs Chicago W 106-103

Sun 30 vs New York W 114-109

Mon 31 @ Memphis W 116-99

Wed 02 vs Toronto W 127-120

Fri 04 vs Philadelphia L 104-109

Sat 05 @ Philadelphia W 92-85

Tue 08 @ Indiana L 98-112

Fri 11 @ New York W 116-104

Sat 12 vs Boston L 89-99

Tue 15 vs Orlando L 105-121

Wed 16 @ Miami

That's 4-15 against Playoff teams.

That's pretty bad.

I think having Bibby brought something weather it was continuity or just better offensive skill, but against good teams, we still looked pitiful.

DrReality · May 31, 2008

I'm surprised that the AJC poll is so close. I would've thought it would be over 70%.

Mike Woodson says he deserves to remain as Hawks coach. Does he?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes 38.13% 289

No 61.87% 469

Diesel · May 31, 2008

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Okay, but then the opposite applies as well.

Why don't people point out that when JJ is the only reliable outside shooter on the team that the opposing team can simply sag in the paint and not let us get to the basket?

Does the offense ever look good to you? If the answer is no then you are obviously biased against Woody. If the answer is an honest yes then you have to question why it doesn't look good to you more often. Obviously Woody has taught them the offense and obviously they can run it, so that would lead me to believe that we have a team with too many guys who are cowboys out there, as JJ has basically alluded to, which creates problems in our offensive (and defensive) sets.

I think the point that you're missing dol is that on this level, with the talent we have, we ought to play a much better offense than "hand the ball to JJ and hope he creates something. Opps, JJ is tripled team... Let's get him another scorer." This is why you and ex are always harping about another 3 pt shooter? Well, the truth of the matter is that our offense could run much better if we had set plays that was consistent with the talent we have. We have the capacity to be a much better offense team but we're just a scrubb offensive team and we obviously get happy when we do more than we're supposed to do because we have another talent added. However, we can add talent from here to the moon. If Kobe was on this team, we'd still have our struggles offensively because there's no plan beyond giving the ball to JJ. That's why when Smoove gets the ball and he's wide open, he does what is natural to him. He shoots. It's sad because other teams give us that all day. They know that Smoove is a 24% shooter from range. They're happy to leave him wide open to continue to double JJ. Here's the kicker. If it wasn't for garbage points, we would have lost a lot of games.

Admin · May 31, 2008

I'm not dodging the question, I'm just not going to waste my time typing up some long post just so you can ignore it. I'm tired of hearing how Woody is such an awful coach, even though he coached his team to 1 more victory than Flip Saunders just coached his team to against the Celtics. Anyway, I'm done trying to defend Woody to you people. He's not going anywhere so you might as well quit crying about it.

Diesel · May 31, 2008

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I'm not dodging the question, I'm just not going to waste my time typing up some long post just so you can ignore it. I'm tired of hearing how Woody is such an awful coach, even though he coached his team to 1 more victory than Flip Saunders just coached his team to against the Celtics.

Anyway, I'm done trying to defend Woody to you people. He's not going anywhere so you might as well quit crying about it.

Yeah... But it's not about weather Woody will be kept or not. Woody will be kept because our owners are cheap and have no other recourse considering the circumstance.

The problem that us people have with you specifically is that you're trying to suggest that Woody is being kept because he is a superior coach or even because he is an up and coming coach. Woody is neither and it's blantantly obvious when you watch our team on the offensive side of the ball. That's why I suggest that we hire a top assistant who has the know how to coach good offense. We need a X and O guy on the offensive side of the ball who can work on position, plays, and ball movement.

You see dol, the way that you approach a problem is not by noting it's inevitability and throwing up your hands. No. You note the problem, the likely outcome and you try to find a solution within that outcome that can remedy the problem. Sorta like if I needed a car (but couldn't afford one) and my Uncle Mike gave me one but it was a lemon. DO I just say, I'm getting a Lemon... bah humbug or do I get some beer, have a few mechanic friends come by and help me fix it? Woody is that Lemon. Now, let's get some beer and get those assistant coaches around woody to help him coach this team!

TheNorthCydeRises · May 31, 2008

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People have been throwing out things that Woody has done badly this entire thread. You're just being ridiculous at this point.

1) Quote from Joe Johnson: "We can't spread the floor, and we can't run high pick-and-rolls against a zone." Hey, look, we can't do the most BASIC things on offense. These are two things you learn to do when you're playing in junior high.

But the reason why we can't spread the floor is because of the lack of legit shooters who can consistently ( key word: consistently ) make shots. So JJ is right. This has more to do with personnel, than it does with the actual offensive system.

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2) Our offense basically has JJ isolated at the top of the key, one guard standing on the baseline outside the three point line, and three guys standing inside the arc under the three point line, in the general vicinity of the basket, sort of clumped up. If you recognize this look, it's because we use it on no less than 60% of our half court offensive possessions.

When we acquired Bibby, Bibby was the guy who had the ball isolated at the top of the key, with JJ in the corner. Bibby's presence was making JJ's life much easier on the offensive end. He was making everybody's life easier on the offensive end. Amazing what a legit PG can do at times. But when Rondo basically locked up Bibby in those first few games in the playoffs, Woody had to revert back to running most everything through JJ. It worked, until Boston decided to treat JJ like he was Kobe starting in Game 5. Then it was up to guys to simply make open shots. They couldn't do it in Games 5 and 7, but they did do it in Game 6.

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3) Our defense is very uneven. Some people point out that we're constantly switching, but this puts in situations where Bibby actually ends up on KG (go back and watch the film if you don't believe me). That's a horrible situation to be in on defense, and it usually ends up with KG getting the basket-and-one.

That's more to do with Bibby not fighting through the pick than anything else. Go back and see how he fought ( or didn't fight ) through the screen. Ty Lue used to do those exact same things. Even a guy like Salim will at least try to fight through the screen and be aware that it's coming. Bibby gave a half-hearted effort to fight, forcing either Horford or Smith to respect Rondo or Cassell. Then they throw it back to Pierce or KG, and they have an easy attempt at a 15 foot jumper because Bibby has no chance of stopping that shot from them.

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4) Our substitions are a mess. Mike Woodson overreacts to the most ridiculous of events. There was one game against Golden State where Al Horford had been sitting for a while, then came back in during the fourth quarter. Almost immediately, Golden State ran a play that saw Austin Croshere making a three over Al's outstretched arms. Mike Woodson saw this and immediately took Al out of the game until the end. So, in conclusion, he took Al Horford out of the game because Austin Croshere made a three pointer. If you're the Hawks, I think that's a scenario which I'd take every time down the court-Austin Croshere getting the ball off of a screen and taking a deep jumper. We ending up getting killed after Horford left. But he never came back in.

LOL @ this. Horford left the game at the 4:43 minute mark in the 3rd quarter. He returned with a little over 9 minutes to go in the 4th quarter.

The ironic thing about this substitution, is that Woody did the exact opposite that everyone always accuse him of, and that is taking out the "hot" man. Chill came in for Horford, instead of Marvin, partially because Marvin had 6 points in the quarter, and was the only guy who was making jumpshots at the time.

Golden St had also made a major adjustment, by starting Harrington at center to start the 3rd quarter, instead of Brandan Wright, making them ultra fast and putting an extra shooter on the floor. The reality of the situation was that Horford was in a HORRIBLE matchup with Harrington, who could bring him outside and knock down jumpers. Harrington had scored 5 points when he came out of the game, replaced by Croshere. Then when he hits a 3, Woody decides to give Horford the early rest, instead of Marvin. By this time, we are down 11, and need offense anyway.

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5) During the series against the Celtics, the Hawks sat Al Horford for the entire second quarter of game 4. This resulted in the famous Zaza/KG staredown, but honestly, Al Horford is too good to be sitting just because he has 2 fouls. It's not even foul trouble at that point. Josh Smith later picked up his second foul. Our frontcourt for the last 3:31 of the first half was Soloman Jones and Zaza Pachulia. Somehow, they played the Celtics pretty much even, despite neither of them really doing anything. Solo got one rebound (and one block on the much smaller Rondo), and Zaza got no rebounds and 2 points during that stretch. You may remember people spouting superlatives about Soloman's hustle and determination after that block of Rondo...we've seen Josh Smith do that literally hundreds of times! It was great that Solo replicated the results, but in 3:31, I'd like to think that JSmoove comes up with more than one rebound and one block. There was one sequence that saw the ball bounces off of Soloman's hands, bounce off of Zaza, then bounce off of Solo's hands again to end up out of bounds. These things happen with your starting front court bench for no reason at all.

You must have your games mixed up. Because Horford played almost the ENTIRE 2ND QUARTER in Game 4. Matter of fact, he was in the game the ENTIRE WAY, up until the 4 minute mark, when ZaZa came in for him. You could make the argument that he needed the rest anyway. But with Horford basically picking up 2 fouls in 2 minutes, it was WISE to sit him down right when Woody did, to save him for the 2nd half. I don't know what in the world you were watching . . lol.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?g...428001&period=2

Matter of fact, Horford played 44 minutes in Game 4. So that means the 4 minutes that Horford sat down, was the ONLY TIME Woody sent him to the bench . . LOL. And it wasn't Game 3 either, because he played the majority of that quarter as well . . LOL. Please get your facts straight if you're going to do this.

It was actually Josh Smith in Game 1, that Woody sat down the entire 2nd quarter. Even in that game, we were actually OK, until Cassell started abusing Salim and scored 7 straight points to put Boston up 11. Now if you want to beef about THAT, go right ahead. But even in that situation, it wasn't the lack of Smith's presence that caused us to get behind like that. It was the fact that Cassell started making shots, while Salim was missing shots. ( kind of discounting part of your earlier argument in this thread about "shooters" on our team. )

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6) Have I pointed out that our substitutions are a mess? Joe Johnson picked up his second foul early in the second quarter in game 5 against the Celtics. When he left, we were down by three. When he back in, very late in the first half, we were down by 13. Joe Johnson ended the game with 2 fouls. Why? Because he has one of the lowest damn foul rates of anyone in the NBA.

Well, JJ picked up that 2nd foul with 4:26 to go in the 1st quarter. Every coach in the league would've subbed him out at that point. But if you want to make the argument that JJ should've kept playing because he doesn't foul out, fine. But it's a known fact that players usually play ultra conservative when picking up 2 early fouls, so that they won't pick up #3. With the way the refs were calling that game ( JJ's 2nd foul was a BS offensive foul on a so-called push off on Leon Powe ), JJ may have been in jeapordy of picking up a 3rd foul he didn't deserve on a similar type play.

I've long said that this team goes to hell, when JJ goes out of the game. That was the perfect time for guys like Marvin, Smith, and anybody else to really step up for a while and try to hold the fort down, while Woody bought JJ some time. And they just couldn't do it. What made this stretch worse, was that while the Boston starters extended the lead to 8 in the 1st quarter, it was Sam Cassell and Leon Powe that we couldn't stop early in the 2nd. They were the only 2 guys to score in that quarter, and they extended the lead to 13. That's when JJ came back.

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7) Mike Woodson commenting on the differential between home/away games during the playoff series with the Celtics. "We play so well at home and on the road it's like two totally different teams. I don't know what it is. It might be the focus or the crowd might be getting to us." He doesn't know what it is? As the head coach, I would hope he'd know something. Maybe point out that the Hawks are missing shots, or are failing in their defensive substitions, or that they are shooting fewer foul shots. But nope, he just doesn't know.

I meant to start a thread concerning this very subject last week, based off of an interview I heard with former Laker PG Norm Nixon, who is now part of the Laker TV and radio coverage. Nixon, in that ESPN Radio interview, pointed out that most young players get "shell-shocked" during the playoffs, especially on the road. He specifically mentioned how the Hawks played in Boston and how other young talented players seemed to freeze up when the pressure was really on. He even mentioned how Rondo was looking like night and day, depending on if he was playing at home or on the road.

Woody may not know, or he doesn't want to keep making the excuse that he had a very young team in the playoffs. Josh Smith was night and day at home. Marvin played better at home. Only Horford pretty much played the same whether we were at home or on the road, but even his production was down on the road.

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8) Trust me, I'm not running out of things to say yet. There was that one game that I remember quite clearly, against the 76ers, in which Al Horford essentially fouled out with two fouls. I can't explain what the deal was. He's our starting center, our best rebounder, and I can't say enough surperlative things about how much he has helped this team. Anyway, Al Horford was taken out late in teh 3rd quarter with one foul. No big deal. But then he sat for the first 6 minutes and 16 seconds of the fourth quarter. He came in, and then Andre Miller ended up getting a deep offensive rebound a couple minutes later and took off running down the court. The only person who was in a position to get in his way (and this really boggles my mind, since Horford is a center and usually would be under the basket during a rebound opportunity) was Al Horford. He attempted to get in front of Miller only to have Andre Miller blow past him and get fouled. Woodson then immediately Al back out of the game after he'd been in for about 2 and a half minutes. Al did not get back into the game. Why was he sitting for so long? Oh, and I should point out that Al was on the bench while Marvin Williams was guarding Samuel Dalembert. This is after Marvin Williams was taken off of guarding Andre Iguodala because Iguodala abused him for baskets on consecutive possessions. I repeat, Marvin Williams was guarding Samuel Dalembert because he couldn't guard Iguodala, while Al Horford sat ont he bench with two fouls. Ridiculous, right?

Not really. What you fail to point out that it wasn't Marvin guarding Dalembert when Horford was out of the game, it was Smith and ZaZa the vast majority of the time. Marvin just happened to be on Daly on a particular play, because Marvin moved to the 4, while Smith was at the 5.

And the reason why Woody opted to go back with Marvin, instead of staying with Horford, was because he and Chill were having very good games, while Horford was having a so-so game and was pretty much a non-factor. Plus the Sixers went ultra small and quick, and we needed to try to match what they could put out offensively.

The facts of that game are that it was actually Marvin and Chill who were keeping us in the game in the middle part of that 2nd half ( Marvin in the 3rd, Chill in the 4th ). JJ got his points, 13 of them, at the very end of the quarter. But he, nor Marvin, nor Smith, nor nobody else, could stop Iggy in the 4th quarter.

Admin · June 1, 2008

I really wish that to prove you point you wouldn't try to put words in my mouth. I have have not said that Woody is a superior coach or an up and coming coach. I have simply said that he isn't nearly as bad as the Woody bashers have tried to make him out to be. I have even said many times that I would gladly replace him if there were a "good" coach available.

As "bad" as you all claim Woody is he still got the Hawks to win 3 games against the Celtics when the great Flip Saunders could only get 2 and lost 2 games on their home court.

You guys would just love to hire another coach that couldn't get his team to advance even with more talent than the Hawks, like Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson, etc. but you know what? They couldn't win the title with more talent than the Hawks so why would they do any better here?

When the time comes when JJ stops openly requesting that Woody is brought back I will stop wanting him back as well. Until that time, you all might as well get used to Woody being the coach and quit crying about it.

Dexmethylphenidate · June 1, 2008

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I really wish that to prove you point you wouldn't try to put words in my mouth. I have

have not said that Woody is a superior coach or an up and coming coach

. I have simply said that he isn't nearly as bad as the Woody bashers have tried to make him out to be. I have even said many times that I would gladly replace him if there were a

"good" coach available.

As "bad" as you all claim

Woody

is he still got the Hawks to win 3 games against the Celtics when the great

Flip Saunders

could only get 2 and lost 2 games on their home court.

You guys would just love to hire another coach that couldn't get his team to advance even with more talent than the Hawks, like

Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson

, etc. but you know what? They couldn't win the title with more talent than the Hawks so why would they do any better here?

When the time comes when JJ stops openly requesting that Woody is brought back I will stop wanting him back as well. Until that time, you all might as well get used to Woody being the coach and quit crying about it.

So I guess that means Avery and Flip Saunders aren't better coaches (than Woody) in your opinion then?

I just want to know...how many Hawks game have you watch the last 4 years?

Dsinner · June 1, 2008

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I'm not dodging the question, I'm just not going to waste my time typing up some long post just so you can ignore it. I'm tired of hearing how Woody is such an awful coach, even though he coached his team to 1 more victory than Flip Saunders just coached his team to against the Celtics. Anyway, I'm done trying to defend Woody to you people. He's not going anywhere so you might as well quit crying about it.

You would have wasted less time putting up ONE thing Woody does well.

Diesel · June 1, 2008

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I really wish that to prove you point you wouldn't try to put words in my mouth.

I have have not said that Woody is a superior coach or an up and coming coach.

I have simply said that he isn't nearly as bad as the Woody bashers have tried to make him out to be. I have even said many times that I would gladly replace him if there were a "good" coach available.

As "bad" as you all claim Woody is he still got the Hawks to win 3 games against the Celtics when the great Flip Saunders could only get 2 and lost 2 games on their home court.

So are you saying that Woody is better than "the Great" Flip Saunders? That's what it sounds like you're saying.

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You guys would just love to hire another coach that couldn't get his team to advance even with more talent than the Hawks, like Flip Saunders or Avery Johnson, etc. but you know what? They couldn't win the title with more talent than the Hawks so why would they do any better here?

So are you saying that Woody is on the level with Saunders and Johnson? Again, that's what it sounds like.

DJlaysitup · June 1, 2008

The problem with Woody is that he doesn't understand things. You coach offense and preach defense. Defense is effort. Offense takes planning. If you put the right guy in the right spot (like Reggie Miller coming off multiple screens) he will make the shot - 55% of the time. You set it up and then live with the misses.

Woody doesn't have an offensive mentailty - and the NBA is still a "skill game" - I saw a guy at Kroger the other day who was 7 foot and strong as an ox - it doesn't matter if you can't play. We need a coach who can set up a proper offense - then preach defense.

bronnt · June 1, 2008

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The problem with Woody is that he doesn't understand things. You coach offense and preach defense. Defense is effort. Offense takes planning. If you put the right guy in the right spot (like Reggie Miller coming off multiple screens) he will make the shot - 55% of the time. You set it up and then live with the misses.

Woody doesn't have an offensive mentailty - and the NBA is still a "skill game" - I saw a guy at Kroger the other day who was 7 foot and strong as an ox - it doesn't matter if you can't play. We need a coach who can set up a proper offense - then preach defense.

I'd settle for someone who doesn't sit Horford until the game is over after he picks up his fifth foul.

Diesel · June 1, 2008

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The problem with Woody is that he doesn't understand things. You coach offense and preach defense. Defense is effort. Offense takes planning. If you put the right guy in the right spot (like Reggie Miller coming off multiple screens) he will make the shot - 55% of the time. You set it up and then live with the misses.

Woody doesn't have an offensive mentailty - and the NBA is still a "skill game" - I saw a guy at Kroger the other day who was 7 foot and strong as an ox - it doesn't matter if you can't play. We need a coach who can set up a proper offense - then preach defense.

You know, that's a big part of my philosophy of basketball. I believe that defense can be taught and defense can be guided. However, offense can't. A good coach can make a defensive scheme that either hides or get rid of defensive shortcomings. However, finding a solution to a guy who cannot perform on offense is pretty difficult.

TheNorthCydeRises · June 1, 2008

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You know, that's a big part of my philosophy of basketball. I believe that defense can be taught and defense can be guided. However, offense can't. A good coach can make a defensive scheme that either hides or get rid of defensive shortcomings. However, finding a solution to a guy who cannot perform on offense is pretty difficult.

You guys still overlook the obvious when it comes to this team offensively. Once we got Bibby, this team was a hell of a lot better on offense, even against the weaker teams, because we were struggling to score against anybody before Bibby came here.

Basketball is definitely a skill game. And you need offensive skills in order to be a good to great offensive player. The teams that are great on offense, have great offensive players. And vice versa when it comes to defensive players and team.

The fact is that if he had a good PG and a guy who can receive the ball 10 feet from the basket and score on the low block, that we'd be a much more efficient offensive ballclub. With the way BK assembled this team, he assembled them in order to be a good to great defensive ballclub, not an offensive one. Now if Sund has a different vision, he'll try to balance this roster out, so that we can play good defense and good offense.

A guy like Josh Smith embodies everything that is great about this team, and everything that is wrong about this team. Great, in the fact that he represents our athleticism and versatility that we have at many positions, that make us a very tough team to beat when we have everything clicking. Wrong, in the fact that he represents the lack of key offensive skills we have in certain positions, that would make us a more consistent ballclub.

After 4 years of this rebuild, we still have some questions about our PG. We still don't have a guy who can consistently score with his back to the basket. We still don't have enough big bodies on the frontline to protect a guy like Smith or Horford. And we still don't have enough consistent shooters on the team to keep teams honest when they change up defenses. But yet, people place the vast majority of the blame for that on the coach.

That's why people want to trade Marvin or Chill for a shooter/slasher, preferably for a guy like Mike Miller or Corey Maggettee.

That's why people would trade Smith for a very good PF like an Elton Brand, or even consider moving him for an all-star player like Carmelo Anthony.

That's why people still want a big center in here that can play defense, like a DeSagna Diop.

If we keep the current team together, we have to make an all-out commitment to becoming a premier defensive team, in order to cover up some of their offensive inconsistencies. Our athleticism and versatility may enable us to do just that. But we can't straddle the fence on this issue. If Smith and Chill are retained, the focus should be on becoming better defensively, because that's what is going to win games for us in the end. That's not saying that you can't add a shooter to the squad, but the main focus has to be on defense.

The Celtics have multiple offensive threats, but they win games on the defensive end of the floor. Same with the Pistons. Same with the Spurs. Same with the Lakers.

Diesel · June 1, 2008