You know what's hilarious...

[TheTrueSiete]

Everytime I turn around, someone is talking about this whole CP3 debacle.... My question is how many of you actually believe that Chris Paul would have been the same player under Woody as he is under Byron? We all see how Acie was brought along last year... Do you honestly believe that CP3 would have been brought along any differently?

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[AHF]

First, I won't claim to have been a big Paul booster at the time of the draft - I favored Deron over him and favored giving the GM the discretion to pick between Bogut, Deron and Marvin and to live or die with the consequences of that pick (and other personnel moves).

Second, I don't think that Woody would have been as good a mentor for Paul as Byron Scott but I don't think Law is comparable either because Paul is just a much better player than Law. So I think Paul's superior talent would have made things different and that there is only so long even Woodson could have started Lue over Paul.

[TheTrueSiete]

Sorry, I wasn't comparing Law to CP3 or Deron... I don't believe, thanks to Woody, that we have seen enough of Acie to make any comparisons...

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[AHF]

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Sorry, I wasn't comparing Law to CP3 or Deron... I don't believe, thanks to Woody, that we have seen enough of Acie to make any comparisons...

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I don't see how you can ignore the impact of Paul in assessing whether he would have gotten consistent court time, though. I think the injuries to Law and the sometimes shrinking violet play were factors in him not being properly developed. I don't have any reason to think that Paul would have suffered from those and - to the contrary- there is good reason to think that he would have been obviously superior to Anthony Johnson, etc. from day 1 and therefore gotten more minutes, IMO.

I think the situation would more closely have resembled Horford's where Zaza started but was just clearly beat out by the superior rookie.

[Admin]

under Woody as a rookie and will probably only regress even further.

What will Woody be blamed for next, the war in Iraq? The earthquakes in China? Lack of oxygen in outer space?

[TheTrueSiete]

WWWWAAAIIITTTT a minute Dolfan... Are you seriously suggesting that the lack of PT for most, if not all, young players is not the Head Coach's fault? OK?

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[TheTrueSiete]

I thought that in order for youth to become experience, the youth would need PT... Not to ride the pine and not be rewarded with more PT after showing exceptional play...

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[Admin]

It will be convenient for you guys to say that Woody "had" to play Smoove, Marvin, Horford, but the truth is that he could have benched any of them just as he has Solo, Salim, etc. if he felt like they shouldn't be playing.

So what young players has Woody not played?

Acie? He was getting minutes early until he got hurt and missed a lot of time. Then he came back and couldn't make a shot and that made him a major liability on the floor. I think he should have gotten more playing time after we acquired Bibby but that's the only young player I have a problem with in regard to how Woody used him.

Solo? He has a long way to go before he can be counted on. Detroit waited until his 3rd year before giving Maxiell any regular playing time.

Salim? If he could consistently make a shot instead of being a volume shooter he would probably get more playing time. That and his lack of commitment to defense. Look at the Lakers with Vujacic, who said that he didn't "earn" his playing time until this year because he hadn't committed to defense.

[Admin]

Many young players don't play immediately or even that much during their rookie season, if they aren't ready to play. Especially not when you are fighting for the last playoff spot. Those guys learn by practicing hard and paying attention from the bench and making the most of their minutes when they get a chance.

[Diesel]

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Everytime I turn around, someone is talking about this whole CP3 debacle.... My question is how many of you actually believe that Chris Paul would have been the same player under Woody as he is under Byron? We all see how Acie was brought along last year... Do you honestly believe that CP3 would have been brought along any differently?

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I think an impactful rookie can find time under Woody.

Look at Horf.

Look at Smoove.

Woody will play good Rooks.

Moreover, Paul was ROY. He would have been good regardless of who the coach. He has a natural instinct that you really can't teach.

[Cwell]

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Everytime I turn around, someone is talking about this whole CP3 debacle.... My question is how many of you actually believe that Chris Paul would have been the same player under Woody as he is under Byron? We all see how Acie was brought along last year... Do you honestly believe that CP3 would have been brought along any differently?

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I think an impactful rookie can find time under Woody.

Look at Horf.

Look at Smoove.

Woody will play good Rooks.

Moreover, Paul was ROY. He would have been good regardless of who the coach. He has a natural instinct that you really can't teach. neither are PG's that are supposed to Qb the team.

[TheTrueSiete]

Also, I didn't ask if Woody would have played them, CP3 or Deron.... I originally asked if Woody could have developed them into the players they are today... Also, vice versa, if Smoove, Horford, or Marvin would have landed in Byron's or Sloan's lap, do you think their progress would have been excelled?

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[TheNorthCydeRises]

Yes, because Paul would've been far and away the best PG on the team 3 years ago. You have to remember that Lue was always more comfortable coming off the bench, and Ivey started a ton of games that year. Paul would've been the starter, with Lue coming off the bench.

Having said that, I don't thin Paul starts his rookie year playing 30 minutes a game. Woody, with his loyalty toward Lue, would initially split time between Paul and Lue. But Paul's overall talent would've eventually forced Woody to play Paul 30 minutes a game.

And actually, that was the plan with Acie. If you noticed during the Preseason, it was Law and Lue playing the bulk of the minutes at PG, with AJ being completely out of the loop. Then AJ pitched that hissy fit, and coaxed Woody to play him more in some of the preseason games. He plays well, and Woody decides to start AJ and try to work a 3-man rotation at PG, with Lue playing both the point and the 2.

Those injuries completely derailed Acie. If he doesn't get injured in November, I'm almost convinced that Woody starts him by mid December. AJ picked the perfect time to play somewhat well ( well for AJ's standards ). If he played like garbage in December, no way is he the starter after Christmas. Woody is the type that will stick with his vets if they are playing good, so he stuck with AJ.

Unfortunately for Law now, he may have to wait one more year before the PG reigns are handed to him totally. I'd still start him, with Bibby coming off the bench, playing more minutes than Acie, and playing during crunch time. But we all know that Woody will start Bibby, with Acie as the reserve. It's now up to Acie to prove that he can be a dual scoring and playmaking threat off the bench.

Whomever is the coach, they need to start preparing Acie to run this team once Bibby is gone.

[Cwell]

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Yes, because Paul would've been far and away the best PG on the team 3 years ago. You have to remember that Lue was always more comfortable coming off the bench, and Ivey started a ton of games that year. Paul would've been the starter, with Lue coming off the bench.

Having said that, I don't thin Paul starts his rookie year playing 30 minutes a game. Woody, with his loyalty toward Lue, would initially split time between Paul and Lue. But Paul's overall talent would've eventually forced Woody to play Paul 30 minutes a game.

And actually, that was the plan with Acie. If you noticed during the Preseason, it was Law and Lue playing the bulk of the minutes at PG, with AJ being completely out of the loop. Then AJ pitched that hissy fit, and coaxed Woody to play him more in some of the preseason games. He plays well, and Woody decides to start AJ and try to work a 3-man rotation at PG, with Lue playing both the point and the 2.

Those injuries completely derailed Acie. If he doesn't get injured in November, I'm almost convinced that Woody starts him by mid December. AJ picked the perfect time to play somewhat well ( well for AJ's standards ). If he played like garbage in December, no way is he the starter after Christmas. Woody is the type that will stick with his vets if they are playing good, so he stuck with AJ.

Unfortunately for Law now, he may have to wait one more year before the PG reigns are handed to him totally. I'd still start him, with Bibby coming off the bench, playing more minutes than Acie, and playing during crunch time. But we all know that Woody will start Bibby, with Acie as the reserve. It's now up to Acie to prove that he can be a dual scoring and playmaking threat off the bench.

Whomever is the coach, they need to start preparing Acie to run this team once Bibby is gone.

If he didn't get injured he'd have still been starting.He got the starting job by the 3rd game and Lue would almost get as many minutes as him.AJ' old grandma butt got mad Acie outplayed him and took his job so he walked out on the team.How somebody can walk out on the team then get a starting job till february is beyond me.Acie started 5 games then got injured during his best game.He got injured again while he was playing the best basketball of his career.

[Diesel]

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Everytime I turn around, someone is talking about this whole CP3 debacle.... My question is how many of you actually believe that Chris Paul would have been the same player under Woody as he is under Byron? We all see how Acie was brought along last year... Do you honestly believe that CP3 would have been brought along any differently?

7

I think an impactful rookie can find time under Woody.

Look at Horf.

Look at Smoove.

Woody will play good Rooks.

Moreover, Paul was ROY. He would have been good regardless of who the coach. He has a natural instinct that you really can't teach. neither are PG's that are supposed to Qb the team.

Well, even when you consider Acie Law.

He started off in NOv..

Started 5 out of 7 games averaged 21.42 mpg.

Dec: 16.63 mpg

Jan 15.53 mpg.

Feb 16.85 mpg.

Laws time on the court was hindered by early injuries.

Paul in that same time would have shown himself capable of running the team.

[Diesel]

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Also, I didn't ask if Woody would have played them, CP3 or Deron.... I originally asked if Woody could have developed them into the players they are today... Also, vice versa, if Smoove, Horford, or Marvin would have landed in Byron's or Sloan's lap, do you think their progress would have been excelled?

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Well, to answer your question, Marvin would not have seen the court under Sloan. Smoove would have been bench on mistake under Sloan. Those guys are definitely better coaches than Woody but those guys have been to the championship and are COY candidates every year!!!

What's the point??

It doesn't mean that Woody doesn't develop players. Smoove has come a long way.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Also, I didn't ask if Woody would have played them, CP3 or Deron.... I originally asked if Woody could have developed them into the players they are today... Also, vice versa, if Smoove, Horford, or Marvin would have landed in Byron's or Sloan's lap, do you think their progress would have been excelled?

Great young players don't need much devlopment. All they need is playing time to show what they can do. The great players have no problem transferring their game from college to pro. They almost come into the league playing like vets. So no matter where talents like those go, as long as they're getting adequate PT, they're going to be good on the court.

That's why people are so high on Horford. He came into the league doing the exact same things that made him great in college, even if he was so-called playing out of position. The only question with him, is if he can be a big time scorer, because that's something he wasn't asked to do in college. He'll have to develop that.

But we all know that Woody is such a terrible developer of young talent. That's why Horford's offensive game fell off so much as the season progressed.

[TheTrueSiete]

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Also, I didn't ask if Woody would have played them, CP3 or Deron.... I originally asked if Woody could have developed them into the players they are today... Also, vice versa, if Smoove, Horford, or Marvin would have landed in Byron's or Sloan's lap, do you think their progress would have been excelled?

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Well, to answer your question, Marvin would not have seen the court under Sloan. Smoove would have been bench on mistake under Sloan. Those guys are definitely better coaches than Woody but those guys have been to the championship and are COY candidates every year!!!

What's the point??

It doesn't mean that Woody doesn't develop players. Smoove has come a long way.

Really, I seem to remember Marvin being talked about as "Loaded with potential", but you don't believe he would have seen the floor under "COY candidates".... And, honestly, do you really credit Smoove's coming a long way to Woody? That is laughable! Name me one player on the Hawks whose progress with the Hawks should be accredited to Woody...

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[Admin]

This is how your list would look like.

Players that improved in spite of Woody: Smoove, Horford, Marvin

Players that didn't improve because of Woody: Salim, Solo, Acie

Players that improved because of Woody:

Does that sound about right? Woody gets no credit for the players that improved but all the blame for the players that didn't improve.

[TheTrueSiete]

That's pretty much right Dolfan... Also, let me guess, you are stoked about the possibility of being 3-4 games better next year, and 3-4 games better the year after that, etc. until all our players are wanting to go to a team that contends instead of a team making babysteps... Also, correct me if I'm wrong, you commend Dallas getting rid of Avery (despite his record there) and commend Detroit on getting rid of Flip (despite getting to the Eastern Conference Finals twice in two years), but you look down on people who want Woody out? I'm sorry but I have to ask, ARE YOU A HAWKS FAN?

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