What are you going to do when they resign Woodsen?

[JackB1]

here is the poll:

http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/ha...hawks_0530.html

currently 61% NO 39% YES

over 1,000 votes

nuff said

[Packfill]

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Now we were supposed to be a 45 win team, let some tell it. If we would've won 41 games, people would be whining about how we didn't win 50 games. At the beginning of the season, making the playoffs was the goal. Being competitive was also a goal.

Now, those things don't matter because we only won 37 games and "backed" into the playoffs? The playoff run doesn't matter, because the best team in the league blew us out in Game 7? We win 11 of 16 games before we finally clinch the berth, yet, we backed in because we couldn't win road games against the people desperately trying to catch us?

Get the (( bleep )) out of here!

Coach, I'm glad that guys like you and Swat said that you'll continue to support the team, regardless of who is the coach. That is my postion as well. I wouldn't be overjoyed to see Woody back, and not a high caliber coach like Avery Johnson. But I'm not going to pout like a (( bleepin )) 4-year old and act like we couldn't possibly have a successful season with Woody at the controls.

For all of you "fans" that claim that you will not support the team as much, if Woody is retained, YOU CAN AND WILL BE EASILY REPLACED !

Just like a longtime season ticket holder last season, who was so unsatisfied of the progression of the Hawks, that he didn't buy season tickets last year. He still may have attended Hawks games, but i wonder how many of our 25 HOME WINS + 3 PLAYOFF HOME WINS did he witness live last year?

He felt that his time and money would be better off doing other things, which is his choice. But his impatience as a fan may have led him to miss out on the great home campaign we had last year.

JackB complains, but didn't the Hawks win almost everytime you watched them at Philips?

Frog won't get season tickets if Woody comes back. Well, rest assured, someone will get your tickets, and you'll miss out on seeing this team win 25 - 30 home games next year.

Let some people talk, this team is going to go on the decline next year. Even if we win 43 games and get a #5 seed in a bad Eastern conference, that won't be enough . . even if we beat the #4 seed in the playoffs.

Every fan of this team should be geeked up about the Hawks and our future, especially ifwe retain the core guys and add a few good bench players. Yet, mo-fos fully expect other teams to just pass us by like a broken down car on the interstate, because Woody is supposed to be sooooooooooooooooooooooooo horrible.

Please.

So Coach, Swat, Dol, and others . . . let those cats act like fairweather fans. Let them act like because we're not good enough to compete for a title yet, thst they shouldn't waste their time rooting for the Hawks next year.

Those types of fans can and will be easily replaced. And they'll be right back in the fold, if we start consistently winning games. I'll personally put plastic over their seat on the Hawks bandwagon, until they return.

Is it wrong to want the team to actually be a good basketball team? I didn't realize I needed to turn my fan-card in because I wanted the Hawks to succeed and and was not allowed to criticize the organization for the mistakes it has made in the rebuilding process.

[TheTrueSiete]

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Now we were supposed to be a 45 win team, let some tell it. If we would've won 41 games, people would be whining about how we didn't win 50 games. At the beginning of the season, making the playoffs was the goal. Being competitive was also a goal.

Now, those things don't matter because we only won 37 games and "backed" into the playoffs? The playoff run doesn't matter, because the best team in the league blew us out in Game 7? We win 11 of 16 games before we finally clinch the berth, yet, we backed in because we couldn't win road games against the people desperately trying to catch us?

Get the (( bleep )) out of here!

Coach, I'm glad that guys like you and Swat said that you'll continue to support the team, regardless of who is the coach. That is my postion as well. I wouldn't be overjoyed to see Woody back, and not a high caliber coach like Avery Johnson. But I'm not going to pout like a (( bleepin )) 4-year old and act like we couldn't possibly have a successful season with Woody at the controls.

For all of you "fans" that claim that you will not support the team as much, if Woody is retained, YOU CAN AND WILL BE EASILY REPLACED !

Just like a longtime season ticket holder last season, who was so unsatisfied of the progression of the Hawks, that he didn't buy season tickets last year. He still may have attended Hawks games, but i wonder how many of our 25 HOME WINS + 3 PLAYOFF HOME WINS did he witness live last year?

He felt that his time and money would be better off doing other things, which is his choice. But his impatience as a fan may have led him to miss out on the great home campaign we had last year.

JackB complains, but didn't the Hawks win almost everytime you watched them at Philips?

Frog won't get season tickets if Woody comes back. Well, rest assured, someone will get your tickets, and you'll miss out on seeing this team win 25 - 30 home games next year.

Let some people talk, this team is going to go on the decline next year. Even if we win 43 games and get a #5 seed in a bad Eastern conference, that won't be enough . . even if we beat the #4 seed in the playoffs.

Every fan of this team should be geeked up about the Hawks and our future, especially ifwe retain the core guys and add a few good bench players. Yet, mo-fos fully expect other teams to just pass us by like a broken down car on the interstate, because Woody is supposed to be sooooooooooooooooooooooooo horrible.

Please.

So Coach, Swat, Dol, and others . . . let those cats act like fairweather fans. Let them act like because we're not good enough to compete for a title yet, thst they shouldn't waste their time rooting for the Hawks next year.

Those types of fans can and will be easily replaced. And they'll be right back in the fold, if we start consistently winning games. I'll personally put plastic over their seat on the Hawks bandwagon, until they return.

Is it wrong to want the team to actually be a good basketball team? I didn't realize I needed to turn my fan-card in because I wanted the Hawks to succeed and and was not allowed to criticize the organization for the mistakes it has made in the rebuilding process.

These comments about staying the course are from people who probably deny promotions because they're happy making LESS... It makes no sense, I know.... I have tried to argue but have been labeled young and naive... It's pointless!

7

[Dsinner]

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Now we were supposed to be a 45 win team, let some tell it. If we would've won 41 games, people would be whining about how we didn't win 50 games. At the beginning of the season, making the playoffs was the goal. Being competitive was also a goal.

Now, those things don't matter because we only won 37 games and "backed" into the playoffs? The playoff run doesn't matter, because the best team in the league blew us out in Game 7? We win 11 of 16 games before we finally clinch the berth, yet, we backed in because we couldn't win road games against the people desperately trying to catch us?

Get the (( bleep )) out of here!

Coach, I'm glad that guys like you and Swat said that you'll continue to support the team, regardless of who is the coach. That is my postion as well. I wouldn't be overjoyed to see Woody back, and not a high caliber coach like Avery Johnson. But I'm not going to pout like a (( bleepin )) 4-year old and act like we couldn't possibly have a successful season with Woody at the controls.

For all of you "fans" that claim that you will not support the team as much, if Woody is retained, YOU CAN AND WILL BE EASILY REPLACED !

Just like a longtime season ticket holder last season, who was so unsatisfied of the progression of the Hawks, that he didn't buy season tickets last year. He still may have attended Hawks games, but i wonder how many of our 25 HOME WINS + 3 PLAYOFF HOME WINS did he witness live last year?

He felt that his time and money would be better off doing other things, which is his choice. But his impatience as a fan may have led him to miss out on the great home campaign we had last year.

JackB complains, but didn't the Hawks win almost everytime you watched them at Philips?

Frog won't get season tickets if Woody comes back. Well, rest assured, someone will get your tickets, and you'll miss out on seeing this team win 25 - 30 home games next year.

Let some people talk, this team is going to go on the decline next year. Even if we win 43 games and get a #5 seed in a bad Eastern conference, that won't be enough . . even if we beat the #4 seed in the playoffs.

Every fan of this team should be geeked up about the Hawks and our future, especially ifwe retain the core guys and add a few good bench players. Yet, mo-fos fully expect other teams to just pass us by like a broken down car on the interstate, because Woody is supposed to be sooooooooooooooooooooooooo horrible.

Please.

So Coach, Swat, Dol, and others . . . let those cats act like fairweather fans. Let them act like because we're not good enough to compete for a title yet, thst they shouldn't waste their time rooting for the Hawks next year.

Those types of fans can and will be easily replaced. And they'll be right back in the fold, if we start consistently winning games. I'll personally put plastic over their seat on the Hawks bandwagon, until they return.

Get over yourself much?

I guess I'm a "fake" fan for wanting better than 37 wins. That makes about as much sense as the rest of your posts.

[Guest]

I definitely thought there would have been more from Hawksquawk making fun of this comment. Surprised that there wasn't, that is all.

[Seano]

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Is it wrong to want the team to actually be a good basketball team? I didn't realize I needed to turn my fan-card in because I wanted the Hawks to succeed and and was not allowed to criticize the organization for the mistakes it has made in the rebuilding process.

I guess I need to turn in my fan card too then.....

It's obnoxious, rude, and quite irritating to have someone on a message board lecturing you on your supposed 'fan status', mainly because they hold a different opinion than yours. Northcyde, get over yourself indeed. Be respectful of others opinions, and act decently towards your fellow Hawks fans. I'll tell ya what, ALL of us here are fans, no matter our opinion on Woody or anyone else. We've hung in there through all the crap and garbage to this point, so I *really* don't see any bandwagon fans here. So go stuff a sock in it or something......

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You are COMPLETELY missing the point. Why should any one support an organization that they don't believe is moving in the correct direction?

Because you are a fan of the TEAM. A lot of fans think like you, which makes you a normal fan. When things go well, you're the biggest Hawks fan round. When things don't go as well as you expect, your suppot wanes. The reason why Bibby called out the Boston fans, is because when the team was struggling, they didn't show up to support the team regardless of how bad the situation was.

And i tell you something else Fros ( my bad for misspelling your name, because I get irritated when people call me northcLyde. There is no "L" in northcyde. ) This is exactly why a lot of people outside ATL consider ATL to be a bad sports town. As soon as a little adversity hits the Braves or the Falcons, the fans don't show up.

That was even evident in the fact that game 3 wasn't sold out until the last minute, because some believed it would be a waste of time and money, because Boston blew us out in those first 2 games. Then they wait too long to commit to get tickets to Games 4 and Game 6.

It's just not a hardcore fan base, no matter how much people in the area want to believe it is. Not even close. Especially when it concerns the Hawks.

And I'm sorry . . when a team wins 28 of the 44 regular season and playoff home games that they played ( 31 out of 48 if you include the preseason ), and you claim that the team isn't moving in the right direction, that's complete BS to me. Regardless of what our overall record is, the fact that the Hawks won over 65% of their total games at home should be enough reason to buy season tickets because you're going to watch the Hawks win most of the time, and have a smile on your face when you leave the arena. We haven't won at home at that high of a clip in 9 years.

So if you are going to buy season tickets, don't base your decision on who is the coach. Base it on the fact that this team will just about win 7 of every 10 games you attend at Philips next year, regardless of who is the coach, because the TALENT is getting more experienced and better. Base it on the fact that if you're like some of the others, and TRULY believe that the fans helped beat Boston in those 3 playoff games, that you NEED TO BE THERE, in order to help the Hawks win in the future.

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I don't believe that the Hawks, coached by Woodson, have a chance to be significantly better. Do you honestly believe that Woodson gives the team a better chance of winning than the majority of other coaches he went up against last season? If you do, I have no idea what you were watching.

Again, why invest in something that you know is broke?

We just made the (( bleepin )) playoffs and beat Boston 3 games, yet things are broke? What are YOU watching? The next phase of this road back to being a contender, is to start winning more consistetly on the road. When we start winning 1/2 of our road games, we'll start approaching that 50-win mark.

To think that coaching is the only thing holding this team back, is an idea that isn't based in reality. The coaching could be better, yes. But when people constantly complain about Smith and his BBIQ . . Marvin and his "limited" offensive arensal . . Zaza looking like garbage for the vast majority of the year . . and Bibby's schizophrenic jumper . . you don't think that the inconsistent nature of our players has something to do with our success and failures?

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How can anyone be satisfied with the coaching that has taken place over the past four years? Its not necessarily about wins and losses over the past 2 seasons (Woody's first two were throw aways in my book), its about how well the team plays and thinking that the team has a chance to improve season to season.

Nobody is totally satisfied with the coaching, or the players, for that matter. But you guys act like we're Jersey, and are in decline. And this notion that we were supposed to win 45+ games this year is completely ridiculous.

Wanting Woody gone is one thng. Saying that Woody being brought back will affect your decision to buy season tickets ( even though they were VASTLY IMPROVED at home this year ), is another.

Every ESPN analyst, except Hollinger, had this team picked to fnish 10th or lower in the East. Anthony picked us dead last. They did that mainly based on the talent, or lack of talent we had.

The NBA is a talent driven league people. I don't care how good of a coach you are, if you don't have talent that can play at a high level every night, you're not going to consistently win.

Ask Larry Brown when he coached the Knicks.

Ask Doc Rivers, when he went from coaching a team full of inexperienced youngsters, to a team full of experienced vets ( some who have won rings )

Ask Mike D'Antoni, everytime the Suns looked like crap whenever Nash missed a game.

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Again, how do you rationalize supporting something that is less than what it could be and should be?

If you want to support Woodson, that is your choice. My reaction to that support is that I don't believe you know what coaching is all about in the NBA. Woodson provides nothing extra for the team. Again, its about how he manages the team and how players play for him. I cannot believe that someone is so blindly supportive of a below average coach. Talk about a FAKE fan.

This isn't supporting Woodson at all. I traveled 4.5 hours and 275 miles to ATL . . 8 times . . to see the Hawks this season. It had everything to do with the team, and not about who was coaching or runnng the oganization. I went to games to see the Hawks. And i got to see them win 88% of the time I went to Philips this year.

Just because we're not at the level you think we should be, shouldn't mean that you shouldn't make a commitment to support the team. I now see why the Braves can't sell out playoff home games. Instead of the fan base unconditionally supporting the team just because they're in the playoffs, they assume that they'll lose the divison series or the LCS because that's what they do every year. So some of the fans don't even bother to show up.

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Fans should always demand better out of their team. I demand better of myself every day, why not demand the same from the team that you are investing emotion, time, and money in? Seriously, why?

Fans should always demand better of the team. But for some reason, the demands, in my opinion, have become unrealistic. There's no way in hell that this team should've won 10 more games. The people who believe that, are smoking some of that Bin Laden.

People can make a case for 5 more wins, which would put us at 42 wins ( and still very much a mediocre and schizophrenic team ). Then you have to identify which 5 games we should've won, and what was the main reason why we didn't win. More often than not, it will be a combination of the coach not doing something he probably shoud have, combined with the player(s) doing something wrong, to lose a game.

NOTE: The Hawks were 5 - 5 last year in games decided by 3 points or less. So I guess in everyone's eyes that hate Woody, the players won those 5 games, while Woody lost the other 5.

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The easily replaced comment is ridiculous as demonstrated by the dwindling season ticket holders. You don't loose season ticket holders if you are a healthy franchise. People make judgements on their perceptions, and the VAST majority of the 4+ million people in this city are calling a spade a spade in terms of the Hawks. I say, get new blood in here to help revitalize the franchise. Sund was a good start, now its time to keep improving the team by hiring a new HC.

Dwindling? Wasn't there a post on this board about how the Hawks sold quite a few season ticket packages after the game 4 win? That's what happens when fans get excited about their team. Season ticket sales and attendance will definitely be up. I just hope that you're one of those season ticket holders.

I just don't know where all of these outlandish expectations about the Hawks came from. People surely didn't share these ideas before the season started . . nor durng the season. And when e finally finished strong, people dismissed that as us playing a very easy schedule.

Once again, I'm all for a coaching change if you're actully bringing a coach that is a legitimate upgrade over what we have now. If the goal is to be a perennial contender, a lot of the coaches mentioned on this board haven't done jack squat with their teams when they made the playoffs. So change just for the sake of change, is useless. That's my position on Woody . . and on the players people are constantly trying to trade around here ( marvin, Chill, Smoove ). I'm not trading any of those guys, unless i can get a significant upgrade at the position they play at.

If you truly want to get season tickets, do it because you love your team UNCONDITIONALLY. Not because they got a coach or a player that you hate outta here.

[Dsinner]

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I guess I need to turn in my fan card too then.....

It's obnoxious, rude, and quite irritating to have someone on a message board lecturing you on your supposed 'fan status', mainly because they hold a different opinion than yours. Northcyde, get over yourself indeed. Be respectful of others opinions, and act decently towards your fellow Hawks fans. I'll tell ya what, ALL of us here are fans, no matter our opinion on Woody or anyone else. We've hung in there through all the crap and garbage to this point, so I *really* don't see any

bandwagon fans

here. So go stuff a sock in it or something......

The fact that anyone believes we could have bandwagon fans is amusing. Now we may have fans that are fans because of a player but I wouldn't classify that as "bandwagon."

[Dsinner]

That was a much more rational post about your thoughts on the matter. But regardless, it is anyone's choice whether or not to give ownership a part of their hard earned check if they don't believe the owner is trying to put together a winning team. Not getting a MUCH better coach in here simply because of $$$ shows that winning isn't a top concern.

You can still be a fan of the team without agreeing (paying) with the owners. Do you make that many trips to the games EVERY year or just this year? No matter how you answer that question I'm sure you were just as big a fan of the Hawks in any given year. It's rediculous to base someone's fanhood on how many games they attend, especially considering you've only been to 9.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Is it wrong to want the team to actually be a good basketball team? I didn't realize I needed to turn my fan-card in because I wanted the Hawks to succeed and and was not allowed to criticize the organization for the mistakes it has made in the rebuilding process.

You can criticize the coaches, the organization, and the players all you want. But don't let your support of the team diminish because they make a move that you don't like or keep a coach that you hate.

There are fans on this board that will flat out stop following the Hawks if we traded or didn't re-sign Josh Smith. Their fan loyalty should be to the TEAM, not just one particular player. I think Diesel pointed this out one time when discussing why Marvin should be moved.

JJ is my favorite player. I'll be pizzed if JJ isn't given an extension sometime next year, but that will in no way, shape, or form affect how passionte i am about the Hawks. I'm just

And you see that so often in sports. People becoming fans of a player, the the team. But once the player leaves, they don't like the team anymore. All of those Celtic fans came from the dead this year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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clyde....I am loyal to the TEAM.........not the coach. Is that not allowed? I want the team to improve and feel they need a better coach to do so. That makes me a "fairweather fan"???

I went to 15 home games last year, plus all 3 playoff games.....watched every game on TV and read about them every day in the paper and here. I think that makes me a pretty good fan

I don't see why I have to support an inept coach just because he is the Hawks coach?

I love my country but I don't like our current President (thank God it's almost over)...does than make me anti-American? I AM loyal to the Hawks and will continue to back them even if "Mr Potato-Head" continues to be the coach, but it pains me to watch him continue to cost this team wins and ruin player's confidence's. I really hope we get a "real" coach in ATL sometime soon so you guys can see the difference.

Jack, you and I actually share the same thoughts. My point isn't about fans not being critical. It's about supporting the team, regardless of how messed up things "appear" to be. It's also about being realistic about where we are as a team.

I'll admit that winning 37 games was below my expectations. I expected somewhere around 40 - 42 wins. But when you and others start talking about how we should be 10 games better, that's just not realistic.

That means that we'd have to have won every cloe game we lost, plus an additional 5 more games that we let slip away in the 4th quarter. No team in the NBA ( especially a mediocre one like us ), wins all of its close games. And we also won some close games that we probably should've lost.

This team has talent, but it is also seriously flawed in key areas that would make us more consistent. People on this board are talking about being a contender and competing for championships . . . lol.

Ish, a LOT of things have to take place before we can even think about all of that. How about concentrating on getting to the 2nd round of the playoffs first, before talking about cntending for a title.

We gotta do more than change a coach for some other out of work coach, before we become contenders. The two teams in the Finals made trades to significantly upgrade their talent, in order to become title contenders.

But I don't want to hear of how some out of work coach like Del Harris or Bob Hill or Paul Silas is going to turn us into a contender, if given the same talent Woody has had to deal with. Those guys are not upgrades.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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That was a much more rational post about your thoughts on the matter. But regardless, it is anyone's choice whether or not to give ownership a part of their hard earned check if they don't believe the owner is trying to put together a winning team. Not getting a MUCH better coach in here simply because of $$$ shows that winning isn't a top concern.

You can still be a fan of the team without agreeing (paying) with the owners. Do you make that many trips to the games EVERY year or just this year? No matter how you answer that question I'm sure you were just as big a fan of the Hawks in any given year. It's rediculous to base someone's fanhood on how many games they attend, especially considering you've only been to 9.

I've made it a point to go to 5 - 10 Hawks games every year, for the past 6 years. And I don't doubt Fros, or anybody elses "fandom". But I do have to question some of those that live in metro ATL, and don't support the team by going to the games. They're contributing to fans of other teams taking over our building.

There are a lot of issues that can keep people from going to the games, I understand that. But when you go to Philips, and a popular team shows up, it's irritating as hell to see 4 - 6 thousand people cheering LOUDLY for the other team.

Opening night vs Dallas was ridiculous, with all of the Mavs fans in the building. And God forbid LeBron coming through town. He brings 5,000 pro-Lebron/anti-Hawk fans out by himself. And for Game 3, there had to be at least 4,000 Boston fans in the house. By Game 6 though, the arena was full of Hawk fans, cheering loud as they can.

So when he says that he's basing his season ticket purchase on whether Woody is let go or not, and not getting them solely because he likes watching the Hawks, then yeah, I have a problem with that. It's his choice true enough, but I wonder how many thousands of Hawks fans in metro ATL are thinking exactly like he is?

If he's blessed enough to make a commitment to purchase season tickets, in my opinion, he should do it because he loves to see the Hawks play. Don't base it on Woody, especially seeing that it's probably a good bet he's coming back for at least one more year.

If anything, be one more die hard Hawk fan in the building, and keep those star-loving fans of other teams out of the building.

[frosgrim]

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That was a much more rational post about your thoughts on the matter. But regardless, it is anyone's choice whether or not to give ownership a part of their hard earned check if they don't believe the owner is trying to put together a winning team. Not getting a MUCH better coach in here simply because of $$$ shows that winning isn't a top concern.

You can still be a fan of the team without agreeing (paying) with the owners. Do you make that many trips to the games EVERY year or just this year? No matter how you answer that question I'm sure you were just as big a fan of the Hawks in any given year. It's rediculous to base someone's fanhood on how many games they attend, especially considering you've only been to 9.

I've made it a point to go to 5 - 10 Hawks games every year, for the past 6 years. And I don't doubt Fros, or anybody elses "fandom". But I do have to question some of those that live in metro ATL, and don't support the team by going to the games. They're contributing to fans of other teams taking over our building.

There are a lot of issues that can keep people from going to the games, I understand that. But when you go to Philips, and a popular team shows up, it's irritating as hell to see 4 - 6 thousand people cheering LOUDLY for the other team.

Opening night vs Dallas was ridiculous, with all of the Mavs fans in the building. And God forbid LeBron coming through town. He brings 5,000 pro-Lebron/anti-Hawk fans out by himself. And for Game 3, there had to be at least 4,000 Boston fans in the house. By Game 6 though, the arena was full of Hawk fans, cheering loud as they can.

So when he says that he's basing his season ticket purchase on whether Woody is let go or not, and not getting them solely because he likes watching the Hawks, then yeah, I have a problem with that. It's his choice true enough, but I wonder how many thousands of Hawks fans in metro ATL are thinking exactly like he is?

If he's blessed enough to make a commitment to purchase season tickets, in my opinion, he should do it because he loves to see the Hawks play. Don't base it on Woody, especially seeing that it's probably a good bet he's coming back for at least one more year.

If anything, be one more die hard Hawk fan in the building, and keep those star-loving fans of other teams out of the building.

You are still missing the point.

If you want the organization to get off its colletive rear-ends and get better then the only voice a fan has is by not purchasing tickets. That is the only way to make ownership move forward. To blindly support a defective product is foolish.

Regarding W/Ls: Show me one place where I said the Hawks should win 45 games? There isn't a place where you can find that because I never said it and never believed it. What part about its not about w/ls that make me not want to buy season tickets? Its about the direction of the team. Woodson is an AWFUL coach. This has been argued ag nosium on this board for the better part of the year, so I won't get into the details. If you want to suppot an organization that hires less than good, then go ahead. I, however, choose to exercise different options.

To call me a "fake fan" really pisses me off. How dare you? I am on this board consistently. I take my kids to games when I could afford while I was a grad student. Those tickets were not cheap, and for a family of four, its some serious cash. Let me add in, that I was born and raised in Atlanta, and I have supported her teams since I can remember. I have seen bad teams and good teams in this city for close to 4 decades, I think I have the right to make my impressions known. Again, the only way you can let an ownership know you are not happy is not to buy season tickets. Thus, my support of the Hawks by not buying season tickets is the only way I know to inform ownership that I don't like what they are doing. Very simply, I am voiting with my wallet. Does my vote count? Absolutely not. But, if my vote combines with 8,000 more, then there is something serious going on that the ASG need to take into account.

In terms of the fans. Several guys I work with believe the same way I do. We are all Hawks fans, but we don't like Woody. We all have agreed that we won't buy season tickets, but we'll probably get seats with a change. T

More on fans:

You take the traditional Atlanta-jab about fairweather fans. I call BS. Live in the NE and you will see the same thing when the Mets go through a long, dry spell. You see it in Philly w/ the 76ers, Philies, and Eagles when those teams are bad. You see in Boston when the Cs stunk it up for the past 4 years. Did you ever try to go to a Sox game when they were 10 out with 20 left to play? I did (and it was freezing cold), but Fenway was empty.

The point is very simple. Fans, across the nation, only support their team when they feel the team is moving in the right direction (Cubs "fans" are the exception). What people see about filled stadiums in the NE, is that the waiting lists for season tickets are up to 20 years for the football teams. This gives the impression that the team fills their stadium up. The reality is that when the Giants stunk it up, Giants' stadium was half empty later in season. Now, the reason that there is a 20 year list has to do with consistent winning and a strong belief that the organization is going to do the right things to put a winning team on the field.

The fact of the matter is that outside of the Braves, none of the Atlanta teams have a winning tradition. Furtheremore, Atlanta is now a city of close to 5 million. The vast majority of those folks are transplants with loyalties to other cities. Do you [censored] when you watch the Braves on the road and there are people with Braves caps on?

So, are all the cities that don't buy tickets when things are bad, bad sports cities? Give me a break as you already know that answer.

Just to reiterate, I have discressionary income that can be used on many things. I would like to buy season tickets, and I will once I feel that ownership and Sund are moving the team in the right direction. Retaining Woodson is a step in the WRONG direction. In fact, it would be a colossal mistake to retain him.

[Cwell]

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That was a much more rational post about your thoughts on the matter. But regardless, it is anyone's choice whether or not to give ownership a part of their hard earned check if they don't believe the owner is trying to put together a winning team. Not getting a MUCH better coach in here simply because of $$$ shows that winning isn't a top concern.

You can still be a fan of the team without agreeing (paying) with the owners. Do you make that many trips to the games EVERY year or just this year? No matter how you answer that question I'm sure you were just as big a fan of the Hawks in any given year. It's rediculous to base someone's fanhood on how many games they attend, especially considering you've only been to 9.

I've made it a point to go to 5 - 10 Hawks games every year, for the past 6 years. And I don't doubt Fros, or anybody elses "fandom". But I do have to question some of those that live in metro ATL, and don't support the team by going to the games. They're contributing to fans of other teams taking over our building.

There are a lot of issues that can keep people from going to the games, I understand that. But when you go to Philips, and a popular team shows up, it's irritating as hell to see 4 - 6 thousand people cheering LOUDLY for the other team.

Opening night vs Dallas was ridiculous, with all of the Mavs fans in the building. And God forbid LeBron coming through town. He brings 5,000 pro-Lebron/anti-Hawk fans out by himself. And for Game 3, there had to be at least 4,000 Boston fans in the house. By Game 6 though, the arena was full of Hawk fans, cheering loud as they can.

So when he says that he's basing his season ticket purchase on whether Woody is let go or not, and not getting them solely because he likes watching the Hawks, then yeah, I have a problem with that. It's his choice true enough, but I wonder how many thousands of Hawks fans in metro ATL are thinking exactly like he is?

If he's blessed enough to make a commitment to purchase season tickets, in my opinion, he should do it because he loves to see the Hawks play. Don't base it on Woody, especially seeing that it's probably a good bet he's coming back for at least one more year.

If anything, be one more die hard Hawk fan in the building, and keep those star-loving fans of other teams out of the building.

You are still missing the point.

If you want the organization to get off its colletive rear-ends and get better then the only voice a fan has is by not purchasing tickets. That is the only way to make ownership move forward. To blindly support a defective product is foolish.

Regarding W/Ls: Show me one place where I said the Hawks should win 45 games? There isn't a place where you can find that because I never said it and never believed it. What part about its not about w/ls that make me not want to buy season tickets? Its about the direction of the team. Woodson is an AWFUL coach. This has been argued ag nosium on this board for the better part of the year, so I won't get into the details. If you want to suppot an organization that hires less than good, then go ahead. I, however, choose to exercise different options.

To call me a "fake fan" really pisses me off. How dare you? I am on this board consistently. I take my kids to games when I could afford while I was a grad student. Those tickets were not cheap, and for a family of four, its some serious cash. Let me add in, that I was born and raised in Atlanta, and I have supported her teams since I can remember. I have seen bad teams and good teams in this city for close to 4 decades, I think I have the right to make my impressions known. Again, the only way you can let an ownership know you are not happy is not to buy season tickets. Thus, my support of the Hawks by not buying season tickets is the only way I know to inform ownership that I don't like what they are doing. Very simply, I am voiting with my wallet. Does my vote count? Absolutely not. But, if my vote combines with 8,000 more, then there is something serious going on that the ASG need to take into account.

In terms of the fans. Several guys I work with believe the same way I do. We are all Hawks fans, but we don't like Woody. We all have agreed that we won't buy season tickets, but we'll probably get seats with a change. T

More on fans:

You take the traditional Atlanta-jab about fairweather fans. I call BS. Live in the NE and you will see the same thing when the Mets go through a long, dry spell. You see it in Philly w/ the 76ers, Philies, and Eagles when those teams are bad. You see in Boston when the Cs stunk it up for the past 4 years. Did you ever try to go to a Sox game when they were 10 out with 20 left to play? I did (and it was freezing cold), but Fenway was empty.

The point is very simple. Fans, across the nation, only support their team when they feel the team is moving in the right direction (Cubs "fans" are the exception). What people see about filled stadiums in the NE, is that the waiting lists for season tickets are up to 20 years for the football teams. This gives the impression that the team fills their stadium up. The reality is that when the Giants stunk it up, Giants' stadium was half empty later in season. Now, the reason that there is a 20 year list has to do with consistent winning and a strong belief that the organization is going to do the right things to put a winning team on the field.

The fact of the matter is that outside of the Braves, none of the Atlanta teams have a winning tradition. Furtheremore, Atlanta is now a city of close to 5 million. The vast majority of those folks are transplants with loyalties to other cities. Do you [censored] when you watch the Braves on the road and there are people with Braves caps on?

So, are all the cities that don't buy tickets when things are bad, bad sports cities? Give me a break as you already know that answer.

Just to reiterate, I have discressionary income that can be used on many things. I would like to buy season tickets, and I will once I feel that ownership and Sund are moving the team in the right direction. Retaining Woodson is a step in the WRONG direction. In fact, it would be a colossal mistake to retain him. great post.To call someone a fake fan when what he's doing is fake is absurd.

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Is it wrong to want the team to actually be a good basketball team? I didn't realize I needed to turn my fan-card in because I wanted the Hawks to succeed and and was not allowed to criticize the organization for the mistakes it has made in the rebuilding process.

You can criticize the coaches, the organization, and the players all you want. But don't let your support of the team diminish because they make a move that you don't like or keep a coach that you hate.

There are fans on this board that will flat out stop following the Hawks if we traded or didn't re-sign Josh Smith. Their fan loyalty should be to the TEAM, not just one particular player. I think Diesel pointed this out one time when discussing why Marvin should be moved.

JJ is my favorite player. I'll be pizzed if JJ isn't given an extension sometime next year, but that will in no way, shape, or form affect how passionte i am about the Hawks. I'm just

And you see that so often in sports. People becoming fans of a player, the the team. But once the player leaves, they don't like the team anymore. All of those Celtic fans came from the dead this year.

Having spent a good deal of time in Boston I can assure you that there are many more die hard Celtics fans then Hawks fans, so to suggest they came "from the dead" this year is a gross mischaracterization. Obviously the more casual fan is going to be drawn to a more successful team, but that is true of every village, town and city in the country.

It is also naive to think that poor decisions by management that result in a poor product on the floor would not have an impact on the zeal of the fan base. It is no fun to go to games where the team is just going through the motions.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Having spent a good deal of time in Boston I can assure you that there are many more die hard Celtics fans then Hawks fans, so to suggest they came "from the dead" this year is a gross mischaracterization. Obviously the more casual fan is going to be drawn to a more successful team, but that is true of every village, town and city in the country.

I understand that. But it goes back to what I said about the difference between really following your team unconditionlly, or really following your team when things at A-OK. The casual Hawks fans only come out for big games, or when things are going extremely well.

My point is that we need more core fans at Philips, especially now, seeing that we are starting to take care of business at home against mdiocre and bad teams, and a select few good teams. I just can't see why some fans think things are so terrible now, even though we made the playoffs and took the Celtics to 7 games.

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It is also naive to think that poor decisions by management that result in a poor product on the floor would not have an impact on the zeal of the fan base. It is no fun to go to games where the team is just going through the motions.

That's kind of my point though EDS. The product at HOME was pretty good this year. And it was a fun atmosphere. We didn't win 40+ games this year because we were horribly inconsistent on the road, not at home.

Counting the preseason and the playoffs, we won 64% of our home games. That's not as good as the elite teams, but it is on par with the other playoff teams. It's good enough for the fan base to really look forward to next season, and to buy tickets to the game.

It's the road that kill the Hawks. So that being said, it's up to the fans at home to really make Philips a legit home court.

If JackB is right, and it's really the crowd that get the young Hawks to play at a high level, how much effect will a great and rowdy home crowd just about every night, have on the Hawks?

Will it translate to 3 more home wins? 5? 8?

If we can win 30 home games next year, that pretty much guarantees us making the playoffs. If we win 1/2 of our road games, that could elevate us close to or above 50 wins, a top 4 seed, and possibly a division title.

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Having spent a good deal of time in Boston I can assure you that there are many more die hard Celtics fans then Hawks fans, so to suggest they came "from the dead" this year is a gross mischaracterization. Obviously the more casual fan is going to be drawn to a more successful team, but that is true of every village, town and city in the country.

I understand that. But it goes back to what I said about the difference between really following your team unconditionlly, or really following your team when things at A-OK. The casual Hawks fans only come out for big games, or when things are going extremely well.

My point is that we need more core fans at Philips, especially now, seeing that we are starting to take care of business at home against mdiocre and bad teams, and a select few good teams. I just can't see why some fans think things are so terrible now, even though we made the playoffs and took the Celtics to 7 games.

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It is also naive to think that poor decisions by management that result in a poor product on the floor would not have an impact on the zeal of the fan base. It is no fun to go to games where the team is just going through the motions.

That's kind of my point though EDS. The product at HOME was pretty good this year. And it was a fun atmosphere. We didn't win 40+ games this year because we were horribly inconsistent on the road, not at home.

Counting the preseason and the playoffs, we won 64% of our home games. That's not as good as the elite teams, but it is on par with the other playoff teams. It's good enough for the fan base to really look forward to next season, and to buy tickets to the game.

It's the road that kill the Hawks. So that being said, it's up to the fans at home to really make Philips a legit home court.

If JackB is right, and it's really the crowd that get the young Hawks to play at a high level, how much effect will a great and rowdy home crowd just about every night, have on the Hawks?

Will it translate to 3 more home wins? 5? 8?

If we can win 30 home games next year, that pretty much guarantees us making the playoffs. If we win 1/2 of our road games, that could elevate us close to or above 50 wins, a top 4 seed, and possibly a division title.

The reason why fans on this site are so keen on seeing the franchise do the right things is because it is such a pivotol period in the rebuilding/getting better process. This franchise needs to make the right decisions this off-season. The right decisions turn this club into a consistent winner and maybe, just maybe, a championship contender. Wrong decisions turn the franchise into an also ran.

Perhaps you have been a Hawks fan too long, but you have to remember that in the grand scheme of things a .500 team is not that good. The casual fan will get interested when the Hawks become a 50+ win team. People want to stand behind a winning product, not a mediocre one.

[Dsinner]

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That's kind of my point though EDS. The product at HOME was pretty good this year. And it was a fun atmosphere. We didn't win 40+ games this year because we were horribly inconsistent on the road, not at home.

Then you're missing your own point. Do you know why a team is good only at home? Coaching. When a team only get's up to play only at home it has nothing to do with talent it is all on the coach. Everyone is saying Woody didn't have this (pg) or have that (center), yet he seemed to have it at home.

It's obvious it is coaching and yet the ones of us that actually want to change that road record get called "fair weathered" while you sit there and get mad at the situation yet continue to support it at the same time. So what kind of fan does that make you?