CRY and get it out of your SYSTEM

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Now that we know that Woody is coming back, you are allowed a period of mourning. So go ahead and bytch and cry about this decision for a few days. Take a week if you have to. If you need two weeks, you have serious problems . . but hey, take 2 weeks if you have to.

But by the time the NBA Draft comes around ( and definitely by the time summer league comes around ), all of this crying should have ceased.

What's done is done.

And anyway, the most important decision to be made this summer is NOT on who's the coach, it's on what we do with Smith and Childress.

Woody coming back is actually a good indication that both Smith and Childress will be retained, seeing how much Woody trusts both of them. In the grand scheme of things, that's what we can't make a mistake on . . . player personnel.

At any rate, this team will have my UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT, no matter what the management does.

- I will continue to be a die hard fan of this team

- I will be in attendance for opening night

- I will make the commitment to attend 7 - 10 home games

- And WHEN we make the playoffs next season, they will have my full support, no matter what record going in or what seed we have.

It's amazing. Doc Rivers, by most accounts, probably would've been fired by most organizations because he couldn't get his young team to win. A few Hall of Fame and veteran players later, he's on the verge of winning Boston's first championship in 20+ years.

[exodus]

You are missing something here. It isn't just about Woody. There is also a question about whether we have a real GM or a Gearon yes man. If Woody was gone that wouldn't be a question at all.

[BigDirty]

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Now that we know that Woody is coming back, you are allowed a period of mourning.

Thanks massa.

[Traceman]

I feel the same way and I re-upped my season tix weeks ago. I am FAR more concerned with getting Smoove and Chillz back in the fold than who our coach is (or is not).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You are missing something here. It isn't just about Woody. There is also a question about whether we have a real GM or a Gearon yes man. If Woody was gone that wouldn't be a question at all.

Which is why you didn't see me jumping up and down over the Sund hire.

See, one of the thing that people like Dolfan, coachX, and I have been talking about for a while, is "change . . just for the sake of change".

With all of this "potential" on the Hawks roster, you'd think at least one of those Asst GMs of playoff teams would jump at the chance to run the show themselves for another organization. But they didn't. Why?

When you look at Sund, he definitely has the experience. But why would he leave an organization like Seattle, especially a year after they obtain what could be the next great player in the NBA in Durant?

If he left Seattle because he didn't want to go through another rebuilding effort, fine.

But if he left Seattle because his job may have been in jeapordy with the new owners moving the Sonics to OK City, and he was willing to take whatever new offer came his way, then that's an issue in itself.

It could very well be that a guy like Sund was the ASG's 6th or 7th choice, after their other targets either publically or privately declined the opportunity to take the job.

The same thing goes with the coaching job. One or two things are happening with Avery and Flip not landing any of these recent jobs:

1) none of these teams are willing to pay Flip or Avery at or above what they made last year, because they know that they're more than a coach away from being a very good team ( Atl, Chi, etc ) . . or . .

2) Flip and Avery are being paid so much because they are still owed whatever is left on their contract, that they're willing to take a break for a year or two, before coming back.

So this means the alternative for the Hawks to replace Woody, were

1) hire an assistant coach that many believe is ready to be a head coach, though he's never been one . . or . .

2) hire a coach that has NBA head coaching experience, but couldn't make his team a perennial playoff contender . . which is what we're aspiring to be.

So while it is very possible that Sund is just a "yes man" to the ASG, it's also possible that Sund looked around and researched the entire situation and said . . "hey, i think the real problem here, has to do with the depth of this team and the quality of the players on the squad, and not necessarily the coach."

I think that's definitely the position of the ASG. If Sund came to the same concusion, then I see why no one else was interviewed.

[JackB1]

I will get over it and basically have no choice. BUT.......all the same Woodson-related

problems we had last year will continue to rear their ugly head. We can only hope

THE PLAYERS themselves improve, because we know our coaching won't. AL, Smoove, Marvin

and co. will be a year wiser and hopefully a year better. Bibby will hopefully be healthy and

so will Acie. We SHOULD DEFINITELY improve, even with Potatoe Head at the helm. If we

don't break .500 this upcoming year, something is very wrong.

[TheTruth]

Wow northcyde, pretentious as always I see. This isnt about Woodson--it's about what's best for the team. Do the Hawks have my support and penchant to watch them on the court, even though I will be in Dallas, yes. But do I think that keeping Woodson gives us the best chance to win? Do I think that the Woodson-related problems will just magically disappear? And do I think we could not have done better than Woodson? The answer to all those questions, in my prolonged reflection is a vehement no.

But intertwined in your holier than thou original post, I do acknowledge some semblance of something decent outside the usual "here we go with northcyde's useless shtick and drivel again." The larger issue is, like I have intimated, what gives us the best chance to win? The answer largely revolves around our players--particularly Josh Smith, Childress, and any vets or a prototypical Center to play alongside Horford. These are all important issues. However, let no one trivialize just how important a good coach is. Woodson has some talent around him, it's past time for him, and the rest of the team, to step up.

It's time out for people to champion brazen mediocrity.

[Zone034life]

Allowed a period of mourning?

Bytch and cry about decisions?

All this crying should have ceased?

Is there anything else you, being one fan, would like to tell the rest of the fan base? Someone disagreeing with a decision of there favorite sports franchise and coming onto a message board to voice there displeasure. What a novel concept.

You can't tell people how to feel and for how long. And it doesn't make you anymore of a fan if you like the Woodson re signing than if you don't. I wanted the falcons to take Glenn Dorsey,still would rather have him, but that doesn't mean that someone who wanted ryan is more of a fan.

Come down off your high porch and realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Since when are you the moderator of all fans thoughts? U sure in hell aren't mines.

I don't like the Woody hirer but still will support this team. I just won't make post and try to make other fans feel there opinion is inferior to mine.

[exodus]

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With all of this "potential" on the Hawks roster, you'd think at least one of those Asst GMs of playoff teams would jump at the chance to run the show themselves for another organization. But they didn't. Why?

They could see a capped out team with no draft picks in addition to meddling ownership.

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1) none of these teams are willing to pay Flip or Avery at or above what they made last year, because they know that they're more than a coach away from being a very good team ( Atl, Chi, etc ) . . or . .

Which is why i haven't mentioned either.

I would be happy with change for the sake of change. We know Woody isn't getting the job done. Getting rid of him would mean that we could very easily be upgrading plus it would mean Gearon isn't calling the shots.

[Lascar78]

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You are missing something here. It isn't just about Woody. There is also a question about whether we have a real GM or a Gearon yes man. If Woody was gone that wouldn't be a question at all.

Exactly, and it's even more than that. It's Atlanta solidifying their status as a 2nd class ball club (at best). We don't ask ourselves if there is any better coach that can be found (there are TONS). We ask ourselves if our coach is really so bad that we have to get rid of him. It's a losers' mentality that seems to permeate many of our teams, and definitely the Spirit.

"Hey guys, we're doing pretty good, you know, for the hawks, so let's keep on doing the same thing..."

There is no way any of the ball clubs that are truly committed to winning could have seen how Woody has coached for four years, even given his lack of talent, and would not have tried to upgrade their coaching. Real teams try to improve, they're not content with a 37-win first round exit just because the previous years were worse.

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Wow northcyde, pretentious as always I see.

Exactly. We can go ahead and cry and b!tch while his holiness gives us permission? Suck my balls on that one.

Your hippocrappic oathis cute and all, but some of us have had it. I got my first season tickets on the heels of a 13 win season, so I don't want to hear about it. And I am one of many customers cancelling season tickets due to this decision and due to a number of other decisions that show that this ownership won't be taking us to a true winning tradition, whether it be due to lack of commitment or ignorance.

We have the talent to be one of the most exciting teams in basketball, and instead our product is U-G-L-Y. Playing higher tempo and running would be more attractive, we perform better, and the players would enjoy it more. But of course, our coach won't even consider adapting his style to his players.

I am considering gouging my eyes out so I don't have to watch Woodson's abortion of an offense, since I apparently can't stop myself on my own. He is the only coach who actually regularly costs his team wins, and now he is the longest tenured coach in the East.

This ownership (and/or Sund, but I suspect that the owners basically decided this) either thinks that:

A) he is better than any other coach that we could get

OR

B) we don't need to bother getting the best available coach when our coach's deal expires

In either case, I am disgusted.

But hey I'm sure you'll be ecstatic at our continued improvement when we win 40 games next year, and who knows, we might even have a winning record by 2010!

[Dsinner]

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You are missing something here. It isn't just about Woody. There is also a question about whether we have a real GM or a Gearon yes man. If Woody was gone that wouldn't be a question at all.

He doesn't care. He's a "real" Hawks fan. We could actually suit up a big brown turd and he'd be happy we not only traded JJ for it, we actually gave it a maxed out contract. Cause that's what you do if you're a "real" fan.

[Seano]

Northcyde.....judging by some of the responses in this thread and by my own reaction to these posts of yours- you might just want to give it a rest, because you are *not* coming across well at all here with this type of stuff. These posts are insulting and disrespectful, and it's like you're lecturing and talking down to a bunch of 11 year olds or something. Not appreciated, man....at ALL.

I don't want to make it personal because I do believe you ultimately mean well and truly love the Hawks, but maybe you might want to think a little bit more about what you're posting and how you're posting it and how that might come across to the people who will be reading it. Just my .02 cents....

[Peoriabird]

Be careful With your post about the future because many of us have made bold predictions only to have them blow up in our faces. I too at some point despised Woodson mainly because of the way he handled Acie Law but I had to realize long ago that people can grow and get better with time. Everyone constantly wants to change our roster ignoring the fact that these guys are growing together and developing chemistry which was very evident when I rewatched the Hawks home playoff games against Boston last night.

Does this team and it coaching staff need to improve? absolutely! Can this team and its coaching staff improve? I think they can based on their history. For the past 5 years are longer, Hawks teams were unwatchable selfish, bad shooting, turn-over prone, no rebounding teams. Now we out rebound our opponents, our assist to turn-over ratio has improved from 1.32 to 1.54 highest in probably 10 years. And we shot .455% even with Joe having an off shooting year. I'm with Northcyde, give this group a chance! They are showing signs of being a really good basketball team.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Northcyde.....judging by some of the responses in this thread and by my own reaction to these posts of yours- you might just want to give it a rest, because you are *not* coming across well at all here with this type of stuff. These posts are insulting and disrespectful, and it's like you're lecturing and talking down to a bunch of 11 year olds or something. Not appreciated, man....at ALL.

I don't want to make it personal because I do believe you ultimately mean well and truly love the Hawks, but maybe you might want to think a little bit more about what you're posting and how you're posting it and how that might come across to the people who will be reading it. Just my .02 cents....

Seano, trust me when I tell you that there is a method to my supposed madness. The people that have a major problem with what I'm posting these days, are the ones that I've obviously struck a nerve with. And yes sir, I'm trying to do it on purpose.

Because you see, it's like every positive thing that this team has accomplished over the past year ( no matter how great or small ), is trying to be diminished in some capacity by certain posters on this site. The Woody issue has always been one where I've criticized Woody, but not placed absolute blame on him, because of how flawed our roster has been in his 4-year tenure. I'm seen as a "Woody supporter" because of that.

But if you look around this site these days, you'd think that we'd missed the playoffs again, and won only 25 games. That we have NOTHING positive to look at going into next season.

- Our core players are continue to improve

- We made the playoffs for the first time in 9 years

- We won 3 playoff games against the best team ( and best ROAD TEAM ) in the NBA

- We may be getting some much needed frontline help in the form of David Andersen, and maybe some surprise help from a healthy Speedy.

Yet, because the anti-christ ( WOODY ) got re-upped for 2 more years, all of that is completely out the window. It's like some fully expect us to regress now, or stay the same, while teams like Milwaukee, Miami, Charlotte, and even the Knicks are going to overtake us. If by this time next year that does happen, they can freely bring up this post to remind me of what I said on June 15th, 2008. But I don't believe that we're going into a decline one bit. It'll take a major injury or multiple major injuries to derail what we've started to build here.

And what gets me, is that there is ALWAYS a "yeah, but" in regard to everything we've accomplished this year, no matter how big or small.

- our core players are improving . . yeah, but they're not improving fast enough. They still do a lot of dumb things . . ( like other young players on other teams, who aren't superstar talents right off the bat, don't do things that keep them from progressing rapidly )

- we made the playoffs . . yeah, but we only won 37 games . . and we "backed" in . . ( even though we had to win 11 of 15 in March and April to even secure the spot )

- we beat Boston 3 times in the playoffs . . yeah, but we got blown out every time in Boston, which overrides those 3 home loses . . ( even though no one on the planet thought we could win 3 at home, and maybe only 10% thought we could take 2 of the home games. 60% fully thought we'd get swept )

There is ALWAYS some reason to diminish what this team did. We didn't reach our regular season expectation goal, but FAR exceeded the playoff expectations. But in their eyes, the 37 wins and the 4 playoff blow outs, completely override the fact that we made the playoffs in the first place, and won 3 home games that no one thought we could win.

Georgia Bulldog basketball fans . . answer this for me. Do you think the young Bulldogs will definitely take what they accomplished during the crazy SEC tournament, and may translate that into a more successful SEC campaign next year, even though they finished with a .500 record, finished tied for last in the SEC, but won the conference tournament and kept their coach? ( Felton can probably relate to Woody more than any other coach in the nation, college or pro ).

And Seano, I'll tell you what I meant when I mentioned that fans are so "fake" sometimes ( referring to the other thread ). It has everything to do with their attitude toward the team.

Seriously, how can Hawk fans not be looking forward to next season, even with Woody at the helm? The end of the season run and the fact that we were good at home for most of the season, should have the fan base jacked up . . but it doesn't. They're convinced that Woody is the main problem. They're convinced that as long as Woody is here, this team will be worse than if someone else was here.

That's partially why Traceman started that thread the other day. If we win 40, people will say we should've won 45. Win 45, it'll be 50. Win 50, it'll be 55. So now, some of those guys are locked into what will be "acceptable" for the Hawks next year, while others will still find reason not to give Woody any credit whatsoever for the team's success. But if they fail, he'll take ALL of the blame.

Let some of them tell it, we were were supposed to win 45+ games this year.

Let me repeat that . . . we were supposed to win 45+ games this year.

That's a number that NO ONE anywhere in the world, stated. Every media website and publication didn't have us winning that many games, let alone 42 games. Most season previews had us winning anywhere from 30 - 35 games, because they expected teams like Milwaukee and the NY Knicks to overtake us. I want to say the average win total on Hawksquawk was 39 games, with a loss in Round 1 ( if we got to the playoffs ).

So we fall below "our" ( not the media's ) regular season expectations, mainly because we let some winnable games against bad teams get away. But we still make the playoffs and make major noise in it and far exceed everyone's expectations.

But because of the Woody re-hire, people are now convinced more than ever that the ASG isn't willing to go all-out to put a winner on the floor. They even question now whether Sund has power as a GM, instead of maybe coming to the realization that Sund thinks that Woody is the best man for the job, from a stability and financial standpoint ( as of right now ).

Some of them have basically given up on going all-out to support the team, because they feel that management isn't giving that same commitment. That's all well and good. A lot of fans may feel like that in all sports.

But they better understand that if they go to fewer games, that whatever home court advantage we have ( or can build ), may be in jeapordy next year. Hopefully, we'll win at home early, and the new casual fans coming into the mix can make those people who didn't re-up on season tickets or not going to the games as often, obsolete. That is my hope for next season.

If that sounds insulting or disrespectful or condescending, then I'm sorry.

But like the Chris Paul vs Marvin issue, at some point you have to get over that ish, and support the team UNCONDITIONALLY. If not, we have to cut our losses, and hope other fans will come to the fold and replace them. If people only want to fully support the Hawks when they win 50 games, then that's their business. But this team needs support even when they fall short of that mark, so that we can build the type of home court advantage we saw during the playoffs.

Seano, it basically comes down to this:

- on one side of the fence, you have fans who absolutely believe that anybody can do a better job than Woody, and that we'll be better for it. They'll support a top notch hot name like Avery, an assistant coach wanting to be a head coach for the first time ( like Woody was 4 years ago ), or some former head coach who hasn't had anybody knocking on his door to coach a team, to be our head coach.

- on the other side of the fence, you have fans who absolutely believe that if you keep the core together, or if you add another star quality player or some vets to add to the bench, that the Hawks can continue to progress and be a perennial playoff team, even with Woody at the helm.

Whatever management does, this team needs our support more than ever. If teams took the Hawks lightly last year, they definitely won't do it this year. They need our FULL UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT no matter what you or I or anybody else thinks about the coach, the players, or the management.

[Dsinner]

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Seano, trust me when I tell you that there is a method to my supposed madness. The people that have a major problem with what I'm posting these days, are the ones that I've obviously struck a nerve with. And yes sir, I'm trying to do it on purpose.

Stopped reading right there. Where's the "ignore the 8 year old" button? Grow up man.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Be careful With your post about the future because many of us have made bold predictions only to have them blow up in our faces. I too at some point despised Woodson mainly because of the way he handled Acie Law but I had to realize long ago that people can grow and get better with time. Everyone constantly wants to change our roster ignoring the fact that these guys are growing together and developing chemistry which was very evident when I rewatched the Hawks home playoff games against Boston last night.

Does this team and it coaching staff need to improve? absolutely! Can this team and its coaching staff improve? I think they can based on their history. For the past 5 years are longer, Hawks teams were unwatchable selfish, bad shooting, turn-over prone, no rebounding teams. Now we out rebound our opponents, our assist to turn-over ratio has improved from 1.32 to 1.54 highest in probably 10 years. And we shot .455% even with Joe having an off shooting year. I'm with Northcyde, give this group a chance! They are showing signs of being a really good basketball team.

Peoria, I agree. And Lord knows that you and I have disagreed during the season on certain issues.

And I didn't like the way Woody handled Acie either. But on the flip side, Acie wasn't exactly the most consistent player in the world either. His passiveness irritated me sometimes. I think he may be they type that needs to feel that he's in total control of the team, while in the game. If Woody increases his responsibilities, maybe he'll be a better and more consistent basketball player.

And that's a great point you made about the assist/turnover ratio. Our asst/TO ratio pre-Bibby was 1.49 . . . with Bibby it was 1.62

Acie shot 48% after the all-star break. If we can get those numbers from him, while giving him at lest 20 minutes a game and possibly 6 - 7 shots, he'll be very valuable for us next season, and poised to take over the team when Bibby is gone in 09 - 10.

Woody may not manage young talent well, but let's see how he manages the talent now, with most of the guys going into their 4th year, except Acie and Horford. Hopefully, instead of adding young cheap free agents, we can add young cheap vets.

Woody doesn't have to babysit this group anymore. He doesn't have to try to develop Shelden into a center or Salim into a PG.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Seano, trust me when I tell you that there is a method to my supposed madness. The people that have a major problem with what I'm posting these days, are the ones that I've obviously struck a nerve with. And yes sir, I'm trying to do it on purpose.

Stopped reading right there. Where's the "ignore the 8 year old" button? Grow up man.

That's cool D. You can ignore it all you want. But I try my best to tell the truth about this fan base at times. You and the others just happen to be on the opposite side this time.

[Kimsey]

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Allowed a period of mourning?

Bytch and cry about decisions?

All this crying should have ceased?

Is there anything else you, being one fan, would like to tell the rest of the fan base? Someone disagreeing with a decision of there favorite sports franchise and coming onto a message board to voice there displeasure. What a novel concept.

You can't tell people how to feel and for how long. And it doesn't make you anymore of a fan if you like the Woodson re signing than if you don't. I wanted the falcons to take Glenn Dorsey,still would rather have him, but that doesn't mean that someone who wanted ryan is more of a fan.

Come down off your high porch and realize everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Since when are you the moderator of all fans thoughts? U sure in hell aren't mines.

I don't like the Woody hirer but still will support this team. I just won't make post and try to make other fans feel there opinion is inferior to mine.

Well said.

[TheTrueSiete]

Voted biggest waste of time thread posted here... Both a waste of time typing for the HOLIER THAN THOU Northcyde and a waste of time for the "Not as true of a fan" Siete...

Get over yourself!

7

[Packfill]

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Now that we know that Woody is coming back, you are allowed a period of mourning. So go ahead and bytch and cry about this decision for a few days. Take a week if you have to. If you need two weeks, you have serious problems . . but hey, take 2 weeks if you have to.

But by the time the NBA Draft comes around ( and definitely by the time summer league comes around ), all of this crying should have ceased.

What's done is done.

And anyway, the most important decision to be made this summer is NOT on who's the coach, it's on what we do with Smith and Childress.

Woody coming back is actually a good indication that both Smith and Childress will be retained, seeing how much Woody trusts both of them. In the grand scheme of things, that's what we can't make a mistake on . . . player personnel.

At any rate, this team will have my UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT, no matter what the management does.

- I will continue to be a die hard fan of this team

- I will be in attendance for opening night

- I will make the commitment to attend 7 - 10 home games

- And WHEN we make the playoffs next season, they will have my full support, no matter what record going in or what seed we have.

It's amazing. Doc Rivers, by most accounts, probably would've been fired by most organizations because he couldn't get his young team to win. A few Hall of Fame and veteran players later, he's on the verge of winning Boston's first championship in 20+ years.

Thank you so much for this insightful post.