CRY and get it out of your SYSTEM

[Dsinner]

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When people stop supporting a team our players start to leave and before you know it we have no team to cheer for because its been relocated to another state.

Very true. I completley agree that without fan support a team could get moved. So owners must bring in fans. Correct? We're still on the same page right? So please explain to me why an owner would continue to try and upgrade his/her product (ie. spend money) when he already has "real fans" (aka Northasses) who are already 100% happy in the product? You're logic is basicaly implying that EVERYONE should be buying season tickets no matter what the owners/team are doing. That makes ZERO sense. This logic helps no-one but the owner. It sure as hell doesn't get you a championship team.

Why do you think companies are always doing customer satisfaction surveys? Do you answer you are 100% satisfied with their services when taking these? If you do...thanks. Because people like yourself are why the rest of us have to live with inferior products and services and are paying $4.00 for gas.

Please do the rest of us a favor and refrain from taking such surveys.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Northclyde you should just do us all a favor and write a book on how to be a fan. In every other line you'll tell us all how because we have a problem with woody and how the roster is set up we all are less of a fan than you. You'll also decieve other Hawks fans into thinking your post was more than a self satisfying ego move to show your are better than many of us.

That's your guilty conscience telling you that sir, not me. I know people don't like Woody. I just have a problem with people using Woody as an excuse for not supporting the team more than ever, especially after winning over 60% of our home games and beating Boston 3 times at home . . with Woody at the helm.

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One thing that confuses me is you're telling people who have sat through a 13 win season, the trading of the franchises best player, some of the worst draft picks ever that they are bandwagon jumpers. Huh? If you were to come to my job and ask anyone I work with my favorite basketball team they all would say the Hawks. I have suffered to long and put up with to much failure to let someone like you try and set limits and rules to what is a real fan or not.

No sir, that's not it at all. My question is "WHY are people so jaded against the Hawks NOW?" Why not support the Hawks even more NOW, after getting a taste of the playoffs?

Some of you act like we've been a mediocre team team for 4 consecutive years, and that another season of .500 ball will just drive you crazy. We haven't been mediocre . .

We

Have

Been

Horrible.

But unlike in past years, there is now a glimmer of hope for this team. Answer this for me. With Woody as coach next year, do you expect us to miss the playoffs? Do you expect us to have less than a .500 record?

Because I'll bet you that if we retain Smith, and re-sign Chill or bring in a scorer/shooter to replace Chill, that all of those media outlets and blogs that picked us to miss the playoffs, will now start picking us to make it. Some may even pick us as high as #6 in the East. LOL . . I'll even bet some crazy person will pick us to win the Southeast with us winning 45 - 48 games.

This is our potential squad next year:

Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Smith, Horford as the starters. All of these guys should be improved and more consistent as players next year. That group alone should get everybody excited about next year.

Law, Chill, Andersen, Zaza as the reserves. Chill is the super sub. Zaza is Zaza, who may or may not get minutes at the 5. If Andersen can give us anything as a high % shooter, that becomes huge for this team. And to be honest with you, I'd rather give Law any minutes that I would give a Richardson or a Mario West.

Add a veteran G/F shooter ( not a D-league one ), and a big center to strictly bang ( even if it's a Diop, a Kwame Brown or a Jake Voskhul ), and Bionic Knee Claxton to fill out the roster.

But make no mistake, the success of the Hawks will hinge on how consistent the starters are, not how great of a bench we have.

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Let me address a few issues here:

Woody - Its obvious to many that this man is one of the worst pro basketball coaches when it comes to in game decisions, offensive sets in the halfcourt and relating and getting the most out of his players. If Woody was not a good in game coach but got a Acie,Salim, Solo, Richardson or a ZaZa to come in and play productive minutes I wouldn't have as much of a problem. You might say these guys aren't that good. One big reason is that when they are inserted in the game and fail Woody takes them out immediately. Instead of actually coaching and teaching he would rather play JJ,Smoove and Bibby most of the game. Thats not going to cut it.

So let me get this straight. You're willing to cut the playing time of guys like Smith, Chill, Marvin, and JJ, just so Salim, Solo, Richardson and Zaza could play? Because that's what you're suggesting, whether you know it or not.

Do you seriously think that those guys could get any playing time on any other playoff team? Zaza and Law . . maybe. But the rest of those guys may not even get a 2nd contract. And I see Richardson is the new "favorite Hawksquawk bench player" these days. Like he's the 2nd coming of Reggie Miller or somebody.

Nell Carter, God rest your soul and forgive me, but . . .

GIVE

ME

A

BREAK !!

I tried to defend a guy like Salim as much as i could. But it's obvious that Salim has to be given a role like Earl Boykins had in Denver, where he got 20+ minutes a game and 10 shots. There is no doubt that Woody could've used him more, but he's so damn streaky, that you can't justify playing him all the time. Salim can't miss hist first 3 shots, and expect to get 3 more. And to be perfectly honest, there's no reason to play him, if JJ and/or Bibby has it going, or if Chill is playing well.

If the Hawks can rotate Smith and Horford at the PF, why in the world would you play Solo? He should only play when someone is hurt, or when we have major foul trouble issues.

Jeremy has played with a few other teams besides the Hawks, and he couldn't get PT on those squads either ( one of them being the Spurs ). The same reason he doesn't play, is the same reason why a JJ Redick doesn't play.

I thought going into last season that the bench of Law, Lue/Salim Shelden and Zaza would be more than solid. Lue was his typical self, but the rest of those guys were inconsistent as hell. When you're a bench player, you have to immeadiately come into a game and do your job. Unless you're the 6th or 7th man, you're not going to have 15 - 20 minutes to do your thing. Not when our starters are significantly better than our bench. You need to do it right away in order to stay in the game. And they didn't.

This fan base used to rip Salim, Shelden and Zaza everytime they stepped on the floor. But now it's Woody's fault that they didn't develop?

Please.

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His lack of communication skills and development hurt the Hawks this season and every year he has been here. If he had coached some of these players to use there strengths and not try to mold them into what he wanted they would be fine. Woody needs players who are already proven because he is NOT a teacher and that is a part of being a coach. Motivator is another trait that he seems to be missing.

Once again, you tell 1/2 of the story. You can say that about the scrub bench players, but you can't say that about Smith, Williams, Childress, Horford, and even JJ. He coaches to the strengths of all of those players, with Smith sometimes getting too jumpshot happy. He's talking to those young guys when they come out of the game, and talking to them while on the court. He's nowhere near being a top level coach, but the guy isn't clueless either.

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Why were the Hawks successful last season? Because the Hawks have talent in Horford,Smoove, JJ, Chillz, Marvin and Bibby who can out perform teams on any given night. These guys are givens though. Its developing a Vujacic or a Jordan Farmer that can help your team win CONSISTENTLY throughout the season. He rode his primetime players into the ground and barely made it into the playoffs. He deserves credit for that but the talent on the team shows there should be more than 37 wins.

Why did we win in the playoffs at home? Was it the crowd or Woody? It was a little bit of both. Woody actually didn't change his style up much.

For example, Smoove got hot in game one and basicly made it impossible for the Celtics to win that game. What was Smoove doing in that game though? Hoisting up three pointers. Its a good thing he made them or we would have been in deep trouble.

Second home game, JJ was great wasn't he. But didn't it remind you of a regular season game that we would win squared. He was extra awesome in that game because of the stage. But there were so many games the Hawks win like this one. 4th quarter comes, throw it to JJ and get outta the way. Luckily JJ was hot that not or again we would have been in trouble.

Third home game, not the end all be all but Paul Pierce not being there late was huge. He is there best player and would have been tough to stop.

Woody can take all the credit for coaching the game and the Hawks winning at home. But as far as the motivational lift that goes to Al Horford and the crowd. That Ali tape Big Al showed was right on point. He is a leader already. Every player mentioned the crowd after wins. Not many mentioned Woody as the reason for wins.

What does this tell you about Woody? It tells you the same reason we won at home in the regular season(as far as what the coach did) was the same reason we won in the playoffs at home. JJ with the ball late living and diein with him. Smoove taking threes but unexpectingly hitting at a good rate and beating a team without a big part of there team at home. Just think of the Suns(Amare) and Mavericks( Josh Howard, Devin Harris) both missing key players and the Hawks beating them at home. What happened on the road against both teams and most good teams? The Hawks got smoked because of LAzy coaching.

I thank you for pretty much proving exactly what I said yesterday.

- Woody gets all the blame for losses, but very little of the credit for wins.

- There is ALWAYS a "yeah, but" to everything we did last year.

Why is that? Why does everything the players and coaches do, have to have some sort of asteritsk (sp) on it?

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Woody is satisfied with how he coaches and that is troublesome. His coaching style can only get you mediocore or less than that. His success is depended upon adding veterans who can help mask some of his coaching blunders. Hell it almost sounded like he wanted Bibby to coach him when he came to the team. He can't just hand Acie the ball and say run the team. He must teach, motivate and discipline him if and when needed. I haven't seen this from him yet though and I hope Bibby can tutor Acie to become a good PG because I don't believe coaching staff can.

I have nothing against Woody but have seen his coaching style long enough to form an opinion.

You can say that just about every coach though. Just about every young team in the league is inconsistent, unless they have a superstar talent at the point or on the low block. All coaches would prefer vets instead of young guys.

People act like the Hawks have had decent PGs and good low post options to get the ball too in each of Woody's 4 years. The good offensive teams have those 2 elements, unless you have a superstar 2 or 3 that is a high volume scorer and can pass to make everybody around him better.

It's funny . . our best overall PG and low post option for the last 3 - 4 years may very well have been our all-star 2-guard, who is also our best outside threat. That's why when teams treat JJ like he's a top 5 player in the league, we struggle offensively.

Only recently can we say that we've had upgrades at the PG and C position to balance out the offense. The offensive efficiency we saw after the all-star break ( in which we were really good ), should be the type of offense we'll probably see next season. We shouldn't have a problem at all averaging 100 ppg next year.

Bottom line: coaching is important, but you also need talent and experience more than coaching. Ask Pat Riley and Doc Rivers what talent and experience can do for you as a coach. Miami and Boston have basically switched bodies as an organization. When Miami won their title, they were the team with a squad full of vet players. Now, it's Boston with all the vets and Miami with a plethora of young guys.

Give Woody KG and Allen to team with JJ, along with vets like Cassell, Posey, anf PJ Brown . . .while losing Smith, Lue, Salim, Chill and Horford, the Hawks would either be title contenders, or at the very least, a very good team as well:

Law

Allen

JJ

KG

Zaza

Cassell

Posey

Marvin

Shelden

PJ Brown

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One play where Woody fooled me into thinking the light had come on in his head. It was in Golden State and they posted up JJ on the left side of the court. With two shooters in Salim and Richardson in the game the rotated around the arc and were in perfect position to recieve a pass if needed. JJ worked his man and when the double came Kicked it out to Salim "SWISH" three point basket! I was screaming at the TV YES YES YES! I really enjoyed that play and it was a good thing because I never saw it again.

I taped that game and watched it about 10 times. Woody's coaching put us in position to win that game. It was a situation in which we couldn't stop Golden St defensively, seeing that we were trying to run with them.

So Woody, in order to get back into the game, inserted shooters and completely slowed down the pace of the game.

They didn't just run that play one time in that game. They ran it about 8 - 10 times. Sometimes JJ would take his man and score. Other times, he'd kick it out to Salim and Salim would either shoot or penetrate and go to the hole. I think Jeremy also knocked down a 3 off of that same play. Salim was outstanding that night, with his shot selection and by playing under control.

But it goes back to the issue with Salim, which is his consistency as a shooter. In that game, Salim was able to knock down his first few shots, which gave Woody some leeway to leave him in. When he starts out ice cold, you can't leave him in because he'll shoot you out of a game. And if he's in the game, but not shooting at all, that's a detriment too, because he's in the game specifically to score.

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They could run the same play with Smoove or Horford with Bibby and JJ ready to shoot. That is one way you can get minutes from Salim and Richardson by designing plays of this nature. They both can do what comes natural to them, shoot.

This goes back to what Woody said the other day, with pushing Horford to improve his low post game. If a guy like Horford can become good enough to command a double team on the low block, then we can run plays like that. The had that inside-outside game going a little bit in the playoffs when Horford was scoring a little over Perkins.

But neither Horford nor Smith are consistent enough back to the basket low post scorers RIGHT NOW to command the type of attention needed to run that play more. Both are much better scorers when they're facing the basket.

LOL . . and that leads me to what I said about JJ. He's our best post up guy and also our best long range shooter. When you insert a Salim or Jeremy into a game, you're almost always sacrificing offense for defense. In that Golden St game, JJ's size and quickness created the mismatch at the 2 and at the 3, because guys like Ellis, Barnes or Azibuike had no shot at guarding JJ by themselves. So they had to double JJ when he got the ball down on the block.

******

But the main issue is still this:

Why are people so jaded on the Hawks NOW? Why have said that they won't support the team more by attending games?

This is exactly the time people should be more behind this team, not waiting on them to fail, so that they can bytch and complain and go through the ol "woe is me as a Hawks fan" routine.

Because I'll tell you guys this. The Hawks could easily be the East version of Utah next year. Utah at home was pretty damn good, and could beat anybody at home. Utah on the road, was an enigma, and could lose to anybody on the road.

So if the Hawks can't pull themselves together on the road, and are still winning only 12 - 16 road games, we're going to need to be even better at home this year, to get a #5 or #6 seed in the East.

And if you truly believe that the great home crowd enabled us to battle Boston in the playoffs, then you need to try to make every attempt to be at Philips during the regular season.

Up until the playoffs, the Atlanta crowd was the butt of all jokes. If you want that to stop, GO TO THE GAMES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

But if the Woody re-hire bothers some of you so much, do what you have to do. Hopefully we can get new "northasses" to sit in your seats at Philips, and cheer on the Hawks.

[coachx]

Excellent post northcyde !

All this reality is hard for people to take.

It is obvious Woody is dealing with one of the most unbalanced and younf rosters in the NBA. Combine that with the glaring lack of depth and his coaching job is not half as bad as people make out to be. Say Woody sucks is just the easiest way for people who can't think for themselves to rartionalize wh ythe Hawks underachieved in their minds.

When you look at the facts objectively you are right on in my opinion. Sure we can nit pick his 2 fouls and sit in the 1st half regiment. Truth be told that normally happens to Smith and Horford who are very foul prone and allow subpar players to get them in foul trouble using basic pump fakes. As they get older they will earn their coaches trust to play through foul trouble more often but as a 21 year old rookie and a 22 year old that makes alot of mental mistakes I can see how Woody's decision is appropriate.

Good luck though in trying to "debate" with these posters using sound reasoning and logic b/c most of them are too ignorant to realize this.

They prefer to blame it all on Woody.

[AHF]

I definitely don't blame everything on Woodson - particularly for his first few years with the team. I am just unsatisfied with what I have seen from him within the context of dealing with a young team.

northcyde - I don't know if I qualify as jaded, but I really fear that by bringing Woodson back the team will not take the next step forward. I think there is no way in the world this team should have anything other than a winning record next season (barring a crippling injury to JJ) but I fear that with Woodson at the helm we will underacheive and have to scramble to even hit .500. I hope I'm wrong, but that is the reason that the new contract for Woodson has me worried.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

AHF, I understand everyone's concerns regarding Woody. And I agree, barring a major injury or multiple injuries that keep guys out for weeks at a time, there's no excuse for us to be a sub .500 ballclub.

But people have to understand that for the first time in his tenure, we're actually going to have decent talent at all 5 starting positions. This will be the first time that the starting lineup has no glaring holes. Each player may have a weakness, but all of them are solid players. I think that alone is going to be huge for us.

If we an get 2 - 3 other bench players to contrbute on a nightly basis, outside of Chill, we'll be good to go. Hopefully that will come in the form of Acie, Zaza, and Andersen ( or whomever else we may pick up )

People try to downplay that playoff run, but that was huge for every guy on that squad. They now know what level they have to play at every night, in order to get it done. It was their first time as a unit getting to the playoffs. It was JJ's first time as being "the guy" in the playoffs. Even Woody will learn from that playoff experience, as being the head coach, and not the assistant.

I think they all want to experience the thrill of being in the playoffs again. It'll be the thing that motivates all of them, players and coaches.

[Dsinner]

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AHF, I understand everyone's concerns regarding Woody. And I agree, barring a major injury or multiple injuries that keep guys out for weeks at a time, there's no excuse for us to be a sub .500 ballclub.

So let me get this straight. You are upset with the "fake" fans because of the percieved lack of excitement for the team? Funny thing is most of us "fake" fans thought that barring any major injury there was no excuse for us to be a sub .500 ballclub THIS YEAR. Yet we're the ones who don't believe in the team. OK.

So you didn't think we were a .500 ball club this year yet you feel confindent we will be next year? Strictly because of Bibby? Listen, most of us fake fans feel we were better than a 37 win team THIS year and our performance in the playoffs PROVED that. What is wrong with us wanting our Hawks to play to the potential that is obviously on the team? It was on the team this past year (yet we only managed 37 wins) and yes, it will be on there next year. Problem is we have a coach that can't consistantly bring out the best in our players. Hence the 37 wins.

So, the "fake" fans believe we have a decent team and want them to prove it each game while you true fans simply want to see the potential in 30-40% of the games. Who exactly are the "fake" fans again?

[Zone034life]

I read every word of your post. Few points that stood out to me:

- Just because a fan is unhappy with a coach or its players doesn't mean they don't support the team. You have to realize that everyone percieves this team in a different light. You for some reason have faith in Woody. Me and other fans have seen enough to have no confidence in the man. The only way Woody can gain my trust and respect is to earn it. Much like Doc Rivers did with the Celtics fans. Not saying that he has to win it all but this team last season should have been AT LEAST 500.

- You are the type of fan that I disagree with. I knew it would happen after the playoffs. Fans like you bringing up those three wins as if it justifies Woody as a coach. It doesn't, because like I said in my earlier post he did nothing different than the regular season. He gets credit for winning them just as he did for the 37 victories but that doesn't overshadow the mismanagement of this team last season.

- You, like Woody, are putting to much on the shoulders of our starters. No team can full reach its potential until it has a rotation off the bench. Sounds like you agree with Woody to run the starters into tthe ground. True Solo, Salim, ZaZa, Acie, Richardson and West aren't great but they should have played more last season. It was up to Woody to put them into a position to be successful. There are players in this league whos coaches have helped them find a role and have shown confidence in them:

P.Milsap

G.Davis

L.Powe

M.Carrol

D.Wilkens

J.Maxiel

J.Farmer

S.Vujacic

B.Bass

just to name a few are players who came in with little to no expectations but because of there own personal desire mixed with a coach who showed confidence in them they are contributing in this league. Any of these players under woody would be no more than Solo or Salim because woody does not instill confidence and is not a teacher of the game.

U are sadly mistaken if you think the Hawks can be a there max potential if the minutes remain the same from last season.

He coaches to the strengths of all of those players, with Smith sometimes getting too jumpshot happy.

You must be joking with this statement. How does a coach coach to the strength of a player if the team doesn't even have a style of play? You are so set on defending Woody you a making statements that make no sense but do defend your stance.

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Woody can take all the credit for coaching the game and the Hawks winning at home.

Did you miss this line. I gave Woody all the credit for those homes wins. He won but he wasn't the motivating factor. If he was this team would have won more games.

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Give Woody KG and Allen to team with JJ, along with vets like Cassell, Posey, anf PJ Brown . . .while losing Smith, Lue, Salim, Chill and Horford, the Hawks would either be title contenders, or at the very least, a very good team as well:

You have to realize it isn't just about having players but getting the players to by into your scheme and using them in the proper way. Woody would not win the finals with this years Celtics team because guys like Leon Powe, Big Baby, Tony Allen and Eddie House would have not been used properly. Doc Rivers showed confidence in these players all season. Woody would have worn out KG, Pierce and Ray Allen by the time the playoffs came. Rivers managed that team to perfection this season. Give him credit for that.

Northclyde this is the offseason on an NBA teams message board. Everybody is talking about how to improve their roster and what mistakes were made last season. Because everybody lost except Boston. It isn't going to be happy and festive always. Sometimes you must talk about possible trades, the coaching and in our case ownership.

You have turned this into:

The fans you have a problem with Woody are not real fans, especially as much as you. No that just mean they are not satisfied and know more is required. I will and always will support this team so stop trying to make it seem just because you don't like something such as the roster or coach you won't!