Poss. Chillz replacements and a look at the cap.

[Guest]

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On a side note maybe it's time to change that avatar fanatic? Maybe you can get a picture of Woody or Gearon to use instead.

I was thinking about that after BK resigned. If I did replace, it would probably be of Gearon. But I concluded that until Speedy is traded or somehow gotten rid of, BK's horrid mark on the team still remains ins some form(brings us that closer to the luxury tax and is completely dead weight).

Of course if there is some other incident from an owner, coach, player, or manager then that would prompt me to change but there hasn't been a big enough incident to do so.

[Diesel]

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No offense to Charlotte and Memphis but it's like having a team in Little Rock or Birmingham and we virtually have the lowest payroll and they're are still losing money?

Assuming Smith gets resigned we will be paying roughly $70 million in salaries for next season. The reason our salaries look low is because we have so many guys on their rookie contracts. That is going to change.

So let me see if I follow this correctly.

You contend that we are at 51.7 Million without Smoove and Chillz signed.

You think that us signing Smoove will take us to 70?

You're saying that Smoove will be making 18.3 in the first year of his new contract?

Help me out. Show me the whole breakdown you're using here because if you think Smith's getting 18.3... Ridiculous has gone to Looney.

[Kimsey]

That's why I said enlighten me and I wasn't too sure on the schematics but they they came out the woodwork to go out of the way to try to embarrass someone.

True Hawks fans at work...

[exodus]

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No offense to Charlotte and Memphis but it's like having a team in Little Rock or Birmingham and we virtually have the lowest payroll and they're are still losing money?

Assuming Smith gets resigned we will be paying roughly $70 million in salaries for next season. The reason our salaries look low is because we have so many guys on their rookie contracts. That is going to change.

So let me see if I follow this correctly.

You contend that we are at 51.7 Million without Smoove and Chillz signed.

You think that us signing Smoove will take us to 70?

You're saying that Smoove will be making 18.3 in the first year of his new contract?

Help me out. Show me the whole breakdown you're using here because if you think Smith's getting 18.3... Ridiculous has gone to Looney.

Math never was your strong suit. You do realize that the Hawks have to have at least 13 players on the roster, right? If we resign Smith do you really think we will let Childress walk and not sign anyone else? Resigning Smith only puts the roster at 10 players.

If Smith signs a deal starting at $11 million that puts the payroll at $61.7 million. Obviously the Hawks are going to have to fill out the roster with somebody and (assuming they let Childress walk) the only means to do it is the MLE and LLE.

Adding the MLE and LLE plus a couple of vet mins puts the Hawks around $70 million. If the Hawks resign Childress and then try to add to the roster they could easily wind up over $70 million.

[mrhonline]

Kimsey,

Try this site out for salaries:

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/da...aries/index.jsp

[DJlaysitup]

Inquiry...if somebody makes a play at Josh Smith, and we match, does he HAVE to take that match?

[Guest]

We won't be close to $70 million in your scenario. Let me give you a highballing offer for everything that would put us at $70 mil. Right now we are at ~$51.7 mil when you include the QOs for the Joshes.

When you say assuming Smoove is signing for $11 mil, you don't add 11 mil, you have to add only 7.8 mil because you are already including his QO of 3.2 mil.

Now how much more do you assume Childress will sign for over his QO of 4.8 mil? I say a generous amount would be 3.2 mil.

So assuming Smoove - $11 mil and Childress - $8 mil we conclude with adding a total of $11 mil to our initial cap amount of $51.7 mil to equal $62.7 mil. Assume Andersen gets the full MLE of ~$5.8 and that is a total of $68.5 mil. Fill the two other roster spots with vet minimum (total $1.6 mil) and you have $70.2 mil.

I find that to be extremely high-balling everything. I reasonably see us having around $63 mil, give or take a few mil.

[exodus]

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Right now we are at ~$51.7 mil when you include the QOs for the Joshes.

When you say assuming Smoove is signing for $11 mil, you don't add 11 mil, you have to add only 7.8 mil because you are already including his QO of 3.2 mil.

No. We owe $51.7 million in salaries next season without the QOs. The numbers are there just add them up.

Mike Bibby $15,225,000

Joe Johnson $14,232,566

Speedy Claxton $5,757,818

Marvin Williams $5,636,142

Al Horford $4,026,720

Zaza Pachulia $4,000,000

Acie Law $2,071,680

Solomon Jones $797,581

I think you owe Kimsey an apology since you just did the same thing he did.

[coachx]

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Right now we are at ~$51.7 mil when you include the QOs for the Joshes.

When you say assuming Smoove is signing for $11 mil, you don't add 11 mil, you have to add only 7.8 mil because you are already including his QO of 3.2 mil.

No. We owe $51.7 million in salaries next season without the QOs. The numbers are there just add them up.

Mike Bibby $15,225,000

Joe Johnson $14,232,566

Speedy Claxton $5,757,818

Marvin Williams $5,636,142

Al Horford $4,026,720

Zaza Pachulia $4,000,000

Acie Law $2,071,680

Solomon Jones $797,581

I think you owe Kimsey an apology since you just did the same thing he did.

With the projected salary cap at $70.4 mill that would give us $18.7 mill to fill out 4 roster slots.

$10.0 mill for Smoove (or $10.5 mill)

$7.0 mill for Chillz (or $6.5 mill )

$400 K to resign West or Richardson

$1.3 mill for a vet

(of course these figures can be tweaked as long as the total does not exceed $18.7 mill)

or

$10 mill for Smoove

$5 mill for David Anderson

leaving $3.7 mill to target 2 veterans along the lines of K. Rush or M. Barnes (some one will get under paid, a guy like Barnes could do well in our up tempo game off the bench.) Get Rush, Barnes, or Azubuki for $3.3 mill (they will get offers from true contenders at $2 mill so we will have to over pay a tad.)

$400 K to resign West for one year.

We could give away ZaZa's $4 mill for a 2nd round pick if that is what it takes to resign Chillz, Smoove and go after David Anderson. (This would give us $22.7 to work with)

$10 mill for Smoove

$ 7 mill for Chillz

$5 mill for David Anderson

$700 K for 2nd round pick

Then if Speedy does not play maybe his insurance payment will entice the ASG to go over the cap a wee-bit since the insurance check would compensate for a small luxury tax bill.

In a PERFECT WORLD insurance will pay 80% of Speedy's salary ($5.7 mill X .8) = $4.56 mill. So in essence the ASG could go $2.28 mill over the cap and come out even.

$4.56 insurance check = $2.28 mill over luxury tax + the $2.28 incurred tax

that would give us $20.98 mill to work with:

Smith = $10 mill

Chillz = $6 mill

Anderson = $5 mill

West = $400 K

(Here (after Speedy insurance check is factored in) we would essentially pay $420 K over the cap so it would cost an extra $840 K over the "budget."

Hmmmm.

Good luck Sund !

[Diesel]

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Math never was your strong suit. You do realize that the Hawks have to have at least 13 players on the roster, right? If we resign Smith do you really think we will let Childress walk and not sign anyone else? Resigning Smith only puts the roster at 10 players.

If Smith signs a deal starting at $11 million that puts the payroll at $61.7 million. Obviously the Hawks are going to have to fill out the roster with somebody and (assuming they let Childress walk) the only means to do it is the MLE and LLE.

Adding the MLE and LLE plus a couple of vet mins puts the Hawks around $70 million. If the Hawks resign Childress and then try to add to the roster they could easily wind up over $70 million.

back to your lunancy.

So, first you say we need 13 players... Ok.. Fine.. .however, in your original post, you state that Josh Smith will cost us 18.3.

Now you're saying that we start Josh Smith off at 11.

Do you know that's 5 year 66 million dollars? or 13.2 per year?

I'd rather do a 5 year 58.5 Million dollar deal. Or a 5 year 60 million dollar deal (10 million start).

So, with that said, that leaves 3 players 8.3 million dollars to get to your magic number.

That's a lot.

We can sign a guy like Kareem Rush for less than a million.

There are other cheap guys that we can sign.

The point is there is no way that Smoove signing alone puts us at 70 million. And we still have the MLE to work with.

[exodus]

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however, in your original post, you state that Josh Smith will cost us 18.3.

Why don't you point out where i said that.

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The point is there is no way that Smoove signing alone puts us at 70 million.

And i never said it did.

Resigning Smith puts us at only 10 players (9 if you don't count Speedy). We will have to fill out the roster with somebody and i would assume they will at least spend the MLE or resign Chillz, therefore the final salary number will be around $70 million.

[Diesel]

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however, in your original post, you state that Josh Smith will cost us 18.3.

Why don't you point out where i said that.

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The point is there is no way that Smoove signing alone puts us at 70 million.

And i never said it did.

Resigning Smith puts us at only 10 players (9 if you don't count Speedy). We will have to fill out the roster with somebody and i would assume they will at least spend the MLE or resign Chillz, therefore the final salary number will be around $70 million.

This is what you said...

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Assuming Smith gets resigned we will be paying roughly $70 million in salaries for next season.

You can hem and haw all you want ex... 3 players does not have to equal 8 million dollars. This is what you said. Now you're hemming and hawing trying to say well, you meant... blah blah blah. Just claim it to be a hyperboyle (like you do) and move on.. Because you trying to justify your "hyperbole" is ridiculous.

[Guest Walter]

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With the projected salary cap at $70.4 mill that would give us $18.7 mill to fill out 4 roster slots.

$10.0 mill for Smoove (or $10.5 mill)

$7.0 mill for Chillz (or $6.5 mill )

$400 K to resign West or Richardson

$1.3 mill for a vet

(of course these figures can be tweaked as long as the total does not exceed $18.7 mill)

or

$10 mill for Smoove

$5 mill for David Anderson

leaving $3.7 mill to target 2 veterans along the lines of K. Rush or M. Barnes (some one will get under paid, a guy like Barnes could do well in our up tempo game off the bench.) Get Rush, Barnes, or Azubuki for $3.3 mill (they will get offers from true contenders at $2 mill so we will have to over pay a tad.)

$400 K to resign West for one year.

We could give away ZaZa's $4 mill for a 2nd round pick if that is what it takes to resign Chillz, Smoove and go after David Anderson. (This would give us $22.7 to work with)

$10 mill for Smoove

$ 7 mill for Chillz

$5 mill for David Anderson

$700 K for 2nd round pick

Then if Speedy does not play maybe his insurance payment will entice the ASG to go over the cap a wee-bit since the insurance check would compensate for a small luxury tax bill.

In a PERFECT WORLD insurance will pay 80% of Speedy's salary ($5.7 mill X .8) = $4.56 mill. So in essence the ASG could go $2.28 mill over the cap and come out even.

$4.56 insurance check = $2.28 mill over luxury tax + the $2.28 incurred tax

that would give us $20.98 mill to work with:

Smith = $10 mill

Chillz = $6 mill

Anderson = $5 mill

West = $400 K

(Here (after Speedy insurance check is factored in) we would essentially pay $420 K over the cap so it would cost an extra $840 K over the "budget."

Hmmmm.

Good luck Sund !

I see Josh Smith getting more than $10 million (11-12) starting and as I said at the time of the Bibby trade I do not see us resigning Childress. There are teams that can pull the same thing we did with JJ. Front load a contract for Josh Smith.

I like the option of trading ZaZa, but I would either like to trade him with Bibby and/or MW. Having said that, if a player like Bill Walker falls into the 2nd rd because of a potential reinjury to his knee, then I can see a trade of ZaZa for a 2nd. Otherwise a late 1st is at least his worth IMO. Players I like in the late 1st Serge Ibaka, Brandon Rush, Javale McGee.

[Admin]

Who are the teams that are capable of offering a front loaded contract for Smith like we gave JJ?

[exodus]

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You can hem and haw all you want ex... 3 players does not have to equal 8 million dollars. This is what you said. Now you're hemming and hawing trying to say well, you meant... blah blah blah. Just claim it to be a hyperboyle (like you do) and move on.. Because you trying to justify your "hyperbole" is ridiculous.

Since you obviously didn't read the post i was responding to i will repost it.

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While I'm at it, I actually find our place in the salary cap pathetic.

1. Dallas Mavericks - $106,717,438

2. New York Knicks - $95,394,773

3. Denver Nuggets - $82,606,172

4. Cleveland Cavaliers - $81,298,525

5. Miami Heat - $75,044,011

6. Boston Celtics - $74,288,902

7. Philadelphia 76ers - $74,287,813

8. Portland Trail Blazers - $72,691,335

9. Los Angeles Lakers - $72,285,365

10. Phoenix Suns - $70,482,998

11. Washington Wizards - $67,830,278

12. San Antonio Spurs - $67,270,940

13. Toronto Raptors - $67,252,973

14. Houston Rockets - $66,508,070

15. Indiana Pacers - $66,412,007

16. Detroit Pistons - $66,023,876

17. Minnesota Timberwolves - $65,345,626

18. Los Angeles Clippers - $64,126,982

19. Sacramento Kings - $63,245,998

20. Milwaukee Bucks - $62,702,859

21. Chicago Bulls - $62,476,258

22. New Orleans Hornets - $62,421,364

23. New Jersey Nets - $60,896,128

24. Seattle Superdupersonics - $60,504,339

25. Utah Jazz - $59,693,522

26. Orlando Magic - $58,681,463

27. Golden State Warriors - $58,537,485

28. Atlanta Hawks - $55,771,676

29. Charlotte Bobcats - $54,162,977

30. Memphis Grizzlies - $53,100,560

No offense to Charlotte and Memphis but it's like having a team in Little Rock or Birmingham and we virtually have the lowest payroll and they're are still losing money?

Obviously you are not aware that these salary lists are compiled only AFTER THE FINAL ROSTER IS SET.

Now lets look at my response.

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Assuming Smith gets resigned we

will be paying roughly $70 million in salaries for next season.

ie when the next salary list comes out.

Next seasons salaries will include more than 10 players. This isn't rocket science but i am not surprised that it confuses you given your history.

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3 players does not have to equal 8 million dollars.

Hence the "roughly" $70 million.

Our final roster will most likely have more than 13 players. Speedy probabaly won't be active.

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Because you trying to justify your "hyperbole" is ridiculous.

Why don't you post a scenario where we resign Smith and our final salaries for next season total well under $70 million?

[coachx]

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With the projected salary cap at $70.4 mill that would give us $18.7 mill to fill out 4 roster slots.

$10.0 mill for Smoove (or $10.5 mill)

$7.0 mill for Chillz (or $6.5 mill )

$400 K to resign West or Richardson

$1.3 mill for a vet

(of course these figures can be tweaked as long as the total does not exceed $18.7 mill)

or

$10 mill for Smoove

$5 mill for David Anderson

leaving $3.7 mill to target 2 veterans along the lines of K. Rush or M. Barnes (some one will get under paid, a guy like Barnes could do well in our up tempo game off the bench.) Get Rush, Barnes, or Azubuki for $3.3 mill (they will get offers from true contenders at $2 mill so we will have to over pay a tad.)

$400 K to resign West for one year.

We could give away ZaZa's $4 mill for a 2nd round pick if that is what it takes to resign Chillz, Smoove and go after David Anderson. (This would give us $22.7 to work with)

$10 mill for Smoove

$ 7 mill for Chillz

$5 mill for David Anderson

$700 K for 2nd round pick

Then if Speedy does not play maybe his insurance payment will entice the ASG to go over the cap a wee-bit since the insurance check would compensate for a small luxury tax bill.

In a PERFECT WORLD insurance will pay 80% of Speedy's salary ($5.7 mill X .8) = $4.56 mill. So in essence the ASG could go $2.28 mill over the cap and come out even.

$4.56 insurance check = $2.28 mill over luxury tax + the $2.28 incurred tax

that would give us $20.98 mill to work with:

Smith = $10 mill

Chillz = $6 mill

Anderson = $5 mill

West = $400 K

(Here (after Speedy insurance check is factored in) we would essentially pay $420 K over the cap so it would cost an extra $840 K over the "budget."

Hmmmm.

Good luck Sund !

I see Josh Smith getting more than $10 million (11-12) starting and as I said at the time of the Bibby trade I do not see us resigning Childress. There are teams that can pull the same thing we did with JJ. Front load a contract for Josh Smith.

I like the option of trading ZaZa, but I would either like to trade him with Bibby and/or MW. Having said that, if a player like Bill Walker falls into the 2nd rd because of a potential reinjury to his knee, then I can see a trade of ZaZa for a 2nd. Otherwise a late 1st is at least his worth IMO. Players I like in the late 1st Serge Ibaka, Brandon Rush, Javale McGee.

I agree, Josh could get offers in the $11-$12 range but there are not that many team with the cap flexibility. Philly could do it if the renounce their rights to Iggy but I doubt that happens. (If we get him for $10 mill it will be a STEAL for us.)

Ya, the more we have to pay Smith the less that will be left over for Chillz and the higher the chance he will not come back. However, some one will likely have to offer Chillz something over the MLE or we will match as long as Smith does not get a R. Lewis like offer which is EXTREMELY unlikely due to the elite 09-10 draft class right around the corner..

With Wade, Lebron, Bosh, and company being FA in 09-10 I don't think many teams will sacrifice their shot at Wade or Lebron just so they can over pay for Smoove. That is just my hope any way.

[Diesel]

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You can hem and haw all you want ex... 3 players does not have to equal 8 million dollars. This is what you said. Now you're hemming and hawing trying to say well, you meant... blah blah blah. Just claim it to be a hyperboyle (like you do) and move on.. Because you trying to justify your "hyperbole" is ridiculous.

Since you obviously didn't read the post i was responding to i will repost it.

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While I'm at it, I actually find our place in the salary cap pathetic.

1. Dallas Mavericks - $106,717,438

2. New York Knicks - $95,394,773

3. Denver Nuggets - $82,606,172

4. Cleveland Cavaliers - $81,298,525

5. Miami Heat - $75,044,011

6. Boston Celtics - $74,288,902

7. Philadelphia 76ers - $74,287,813

8. Portland Trail Blazers - $72,691,335

9. Los Angeles Lakers - $72,285,365

10. Phoenix Suns - $70,482,998

11. Washington Wizards - $67,830,278

12. San Antonio Spurs - $67,270,940

13. Toronto Raptors - $67,252,973

14. Houston Rockets - $66,508,070

15. Indiana Pacers - $66,412,007

16. Detroit Pistons - $66,023,876

17. Minnesota Timberwolves - $65,345,626

18. Los Angeles Clippers - $64,126,982

19. Sacramento Kings - $63,245,998

20. Milwaukee Bucks - $62,702,859

21. Chicago Bulls - $62,476,258

22. New Orleans Hornets - $62,421,364

23. New Jersey Nets - $60,896,128

24. Seattle Superdupersonics - $60,504,339

25. Utah Jazz - $59,693,522

26. Orlando Magic - $58,681,463

27. Golden State Warriors - $58,537,485

28. Atlanta Hawks - $55,771,676

29. Charlotte Bobcats - $54,162,977

30. Memphis Grizzlies - $53,100,560

No offense to Charlotte and Memphis but it's like having a team in Little Rock or Birmingham and we virtually have the lowest payroll and they're are still losing money?

Obviously you are not aware that these salary lists are compiled only AFTER THE FINAL ROSTER IS SET.

Now lets look at my response.

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Assuming Smith gets resigned we

will be paying roughly $70 million in salaries for next season.

ie when the next salary list comes out.

Next seasons salaries will include more than 10 players. This isn't rocket science but i am not surprised that it confuses you given your history.

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3 players does not have to equal 8 million dollars.

Hence the "roughly" $70 million.

Our final roster will most likely have more than 13 players. Speedy probabaly won't be active.

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Because you trying to justify your "hyperbole" is ridiculous.

Why don't you post a scenario where we resign Smith and our final salaries for next season total well under $70 million?

Another Ex attempt to change the subject.

It was well understood that 51.7 million was the price with 4 spaces left. Period.

Your previous argument has very little to do with you saying that us signing Josh HAS TO RESULT In us spending 70 million.

Yes or no was that hyperboyle?

[exodus]

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Your previous argument has very little to do with you saying that us signing Josh

HAS TO RESULT

In us spending 70 million.

Yes or no was that hyperboyle?

That isn't what i said. Again you are just making stuff up just like you made it up when you claimed i said Smith's deal would start at $18 million.

I said next years salaries will be ROUGHLY $70 million assuming we resign Smith. You obviously agree with this since you have yet to come up with a scenario where our salaries are well below $70 million while resigning Smith.

[Guest]

Wow, I completely blanked out on that one. Not sure why that happened, probably the long drive home but I completely fudged that.

[exodus]

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Wow, I completely blanked out on that one. Not sure why that happened, probably the long drive home but I completely fudged that.

Chit happens.