What is the limit per year you would go for Smith?

[exodus]

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Okay so if you didn't care about the results of the poll why did you try and come in and tell others what my (apparently hidden) intention of the poll was?

Why not just stay the hell out of it if you didn't care. Instead you decided to post your assumption of what I meant as if there was some hidden meaning rather than what I actually wrote and people were responding to.

Because when i read Trace's post i thought he was misinterpreting it since you specifically said "annually".

[Admin]

Again, you pick and choose a word to fit your assumptions. Would it have been easier for you if I had said "or maybe" instead of "and maybe"? Maybe if the key word in either of those pairs. Maybe we trade him, maybe we let him expire. Either way he is a FA at the end of the season. Maybe we trade him for another expiring deal and both players are FA's, therefore we still have 15 million coming off the books. Should we list every possible scenario every time we propose something so that you can understand that there are different variations which are possible given almost any trade/signing?

[exodus]

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You see that is your problem. You pick and choose words and pieces of sentences rather to respond in an inflammatory manner rather than respond to the simple explanation that often directly follows.

Exodus sees "that is the most relevant to us right now"

Everyone else sees "I wasn't asking for the average annual salary as

that is the most relevant to us right now.

I was asking for the starting salary and I believe that most people have been voting off of that assumption."

Again i say what does the phrase in bold mean? Does it mean that the average salary is more relevant or does it mean the starting salary is more relevant?

Would you rather sign Smith to a deal

starting at $12 million and paid $12 million every year

or

starting at $11 million and averaging $13.5 million over the length of the deal?

[exodus]

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Again, you pick and choose a word to fit your assumptions. Would it have been easier for you if I had said "or maybe" instead of "and maybe"? Maybe if the key word in either of those pairs. Maybe we trade him, maybe we let him expire. Either way he is a FA at the end of the season. Maybe we trade him for another expiring deal and both players are FA's,

therefore we still have 15 million coming off the books

. Should we list every possible scenario every time we propose something so that you can understand that there are different variations which are possible given almost any trade/signing?

If we have a $15 million FA at the end of next season he will still have a cap hold of 1.5 times his salary unless we renounce his Bird Rights. If we renounce him that would beg the question as to why we would trade for him in the first place.

You are the one who brought up adding a marquee player but haven't given any plausible scenario of getting such a player without giving anyone up.

[Admin]

Well considering that players don't sign deals that pay the say amount every year it seems pretty damn obvious that you can't sign a deal that pays 12 million every year. You can sign a deal that starts at 12 million and has the standard raises, which every contract seems to have which is exactly what the poll was about. I didn't need to list the standard raises or anything else since the initial post didn't talk anything about the average salary or anything more than the initial signing amount which is what is the most important.

[Admin]

Have you ever heard of two teams swapping players to try and make their team better? Who's to say that we can't do that with another team who needs a PG for the stretch run while they give us something else we need for the stretch run? Maybe it works out for us, maybe it doesn't. Maybe there is a better player available as a FA and we do renounce our rights to him.

[Diesel]

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Again i say what does the phrase in bold mean? Does it mean that the average salary is more relevant or does it mean the starting salary is more relevant?

How is a average salary relevant to our salary cap in 2008?

Ex, Nobody cares about the average salary.

Maybe a mistake was made in how the question was asked, but nobody gives a damn about average salary. Bibby, Zaza, and Speedy will be gone and there will be 25 million dollars in the cap. Nobody cares about average salary beyond this year.

[exodus]

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Well considering that

players don't sign deals that pay the say amount every year

it seems pretty damn obvious that you can't sign a deal that pays 12 million every year

Ever hear of Zaza? Diaw? Speedy's deal actually declines in later years as does Hinrichs. JJ has a large chunk of his money up front.

You continue to amaze me.

[exodus]

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Again i say what does the phrase in bold mean? Does it mean that the average salary is more relevant or does it mean the starting salary is more relevant?

How is a average salary relevant to our salary cap in 2008?

Ex, Nobody cares about the average salary.

Maybe a mistake was made in how the question was asked, but nobody gives a damn about average salary. Bibby, Zaza, and Speedy will be gone and there will be 25 million dollars in the cap. Nobody cares about average salary beyond this year.

Oh really. So you would sign Smith to a 5 year $67.5 million deal as opposed to a 5 year $60 million deal since the $67.5 million deal has a lower starting salary? OK

[exodus]

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Have you ever heard of two teams swapping players to try and make their team better?

No i have never heard of two teams swapping high priced UFAs at the deadline. I challenge you to come up with 1 example.

[Admin]

You completely contradicted the part that you bolded. Are you that dense that you didn't realize that?

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Dolfan: players don't sign deals that pay the say amount every year

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Ex:Ever hear of Zaza? Diaw? Speedy's deal actually declines in later years as does Hinrichs. JJ has a large chunk of his money up front

So if their deals decline in later years, don't you think that means that they don't pay the same amount each year?

For the record, JJ's deal increases each year. Zaza and Diaw have one of those rare deals that don't change. Since you love to challenge people, why don't you find some contracts that pay 11 million or more each and every year without raises.

[Diesel]

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Again i say what does the phrase in bold mean? Does it mean that the average salary is more relevant or does it mean the starting salary is more relevant?

How is a average salary relevant to our salary cap in 2008?

Ex, Nobody cares about the average salary.

Maybe a mistake was made in how the question was asked, but nobody gives a damn about average salary. Bibby, Zaza, and Speedy will be gone and there will be 25 million dollars in the cap. Nobody cares about average salary beyond this year.

Oh really. So you would sign Smith to a 5 year $67.5 million deal as opposed to a 5 year $60 million deal since the $67.5 million deal has a lower starting salary? OK

If that's what's required to keep him!

See. Nobody cares.

What our GM is to do is plan for the future... You can't have a future without Smoove. If the market dictates he's worth 67.5 then we pay him 67.5. It can be frontloaded, backloaded, middle loaded. As long as when we sign him, in 2008, we do it in a way that we don't hurt ourselves in 2008. As I stated before, in 2009, we have 25 million dollars in salary coming off. That's enough wiggle room for our GM to do something.

[Admin]

I would be happy to. Send me a link to a site that has records of every trade made in the past decade or so.

[Guest]

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Bibby, Zaza, and Speedy will be gone and there will be 25 million dollars in the cap. Nobody cares about average salary beyond this year.

Just to clarify, Speedy's deal isn't up until the next year, so it will roughly be 19 million expiring from Bibby and Zaza next year. Thank you BK for signing us to that horrible deal, the only good thing about it is it declines in value, so it will "save" us 500 k from the year before...

[Admin]

It could come off after this season though if he doesn't play, right?

[Diesel]

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Bibby, Zaza, and Speedy will be gone and there will be 25 million dollars in the cap. Nobody cares about average salary beyond this year.

Just to clarify, Speedy's deal isn't up until the next year, so it will roughly be 19 million expiring from Bibby and Zaza next year. Thank you BK for signing us to that horrible deal, the only good thing about it is it declines in value, so it will "save" us 500 k from the year before...

If Speedy doesn't play a game before Jan. 5th, we can go to the league and have him medically exempted. My guess is that we will and that will put us under the Luxury cap for this year if we have to go over the luxury tax.

It's the same thing we did with Terrell Brandon a few years back.

[exodus]

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So if their deals decline in later years, don't you think that means that they don't pay the same amount each year?

LOL

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Zaza and Diaw have one of those rare deals that don't change.

But i thought you said players DON'T SIGN DEALS LIKE THAT.

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For the record, JJ's deal increases each year.

Wrong. He got his largest paycheck during his first year because his contract was frontloaded. Somehow i am not surprised you forgot.

For cap purposes it increases every year.

[exodus]

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Again i say what does the phrase in bold mean? Does it mean that the average salary is more relevant or does it mean the starting salary is more relevant?

How is a average salary relevant to our salary cap in 2008?

Ex, Nobody cares about the average salary.

Maybe a mistake was made in how the question was asked, but nobody gives a damn about average salary. Bibby, Zaza, and Speedy will be gone and there will be 25 million dollars in the cap. Nobody cares about average salary beyond this year.

Oh really. So you would sign Smith to a 5 year $67.5 million deal as opposed to a 5 year $60 million deal since the $67.5 million deal has a lower starting salary? OK

If that's what's required to keep him!

See. Nobody cares.

What our GM is to do is plan for the future... You can't have a future without Smoove. If the market dictates he's worth 67.5 then we pay him 67.5. It can be frontloaded, backloaded, middle loaded. As long as when we sign him, in 2008, we do it in a way that we don't hurt ourselves in 2008. As I stated before, in 2009, we have 25 million dollars in salary coming off. That's enough wiggle room for our GM to do something.

So you would rather pay $67.5 million than $60 million just because of a 1 million difference in starting salary. Somehow this doesn't surprise me.

[Diesel]

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Wrong. He got his largest paycheck during his first year because his contract was frontloaded. Somehow i am not surprised you forgot.

No. JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises. Maybe not 12.5 (or 10%) per year (I can't remember if JJ got in before the new CBA). However, It was still a percentage raise to his.

[exodus]

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I would be happy to. Send me a link to a site that has records of every trade made in the past decade or so.

You are on your own there. But if two high priced ufa's had been traded for each other in recent years we wouldn't have to look it up. We would know about it.