What is the limit per year you would go for Smith?

[Diesel]

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So you would rather pay $67.5 million than $60 million just because of a 1 million difference in starting salary. Somehow this doesn't surprise me.

If Smoove signed a 67.5 Million dollar deal with another team and we were to match it. Yes I would. That's because that's what the market dictate.

Now. on to your subject change.

If we were 1 million away from paying the luxury tax, I would pay Smoove the extra 7.5 Million over 5 years... If I'm an owner. However, in your stupid scenerio, can you come up with a way that there will be 7.5 million dollars extra for a contract that starts out 1 million less. Is this your idea of frontloaded?

[exodus]

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why don't you find some contracts that pay 11 million or more each and every year without raises.

In order for contracts to average over $11 million they have had to include raises until recently. That is not the case now. If i remember right the max starting salary for Smith is roughly $13 million so he could sign a deal that pays him $13 million every year.

[exodus]

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If Smoove signed a 67.5 Million dollar deal with another team and we were to match it. Yes I would. That's because that's what the market dictate.

That wasn't the question. the question was between a $60 million deal paying $12 million every year and a deal starting at $11 million with raises totalling $67.5 million.

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If we were 1 million away from paying the luxury tax,

Again that is not the question.

[exodus]

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JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises.

for cap purposes it is a normal deal with max raises. But in reality he made the most money in year 1.

[Guest]

I am not sure that we have applied for Speedy to be reviewed as unable to play. My guess is we have not because there has been talk of Speedy playing this season.

What it is is that we need an NBA approved physician to say Speedy is unable to play. Then from that day there is a one-year waiting period before we can take him off of our Cap. So chances are we will not have it to spend next FAency, but it would be useful in that we may be able to take off his salary to avoid the luxury tax next season (09-10).

[Diesel]

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JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises.

for cap purposes it is a normal deal with max raises. But in reality he made the most money in year 1.

In year 1, JJ made 14 million.

IN year 5, he will make 14.9 million.

Check it.

[exodus]

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JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises.

for cap purposes it is a normal deal with max raises. But in reality he made the most money in year 1.

In year 1, JJ made 14 million.

IN year 5, he will make 14.9 million.

Check it.

BK frontloaded the deal to make it tougher for the Suns to match. He got much more than $14 millon in year one. If i remember right he got $20 million in year 1.

[Diesel]

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I am not sure that we have applied for Speedy to be reviewed as unable to play. My guess is we have not because there has been talk of Speedy playing this season.

What it is is that we need an NBA approved physician to say Speedy is unable to play. Then from that day there is a one-year waiting period before we can take him off of our Cap. So chances are we will not have it to spend next FAency, but it would be useful in that we may be able to take off his salary to avoid the luxury tax next season (09-10).

There are 2 exceptions:

1. = Disabled player exception.

2. = Retired player for medical reasons.

I doubt we can get Speedy to retire. I was wrong, I thought that it was only one. However, Speedy fits under the disable player exception.

Here's what Coon states about the DPE.

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This exception allows a team which is over the cap to acquire a replacement for a disabled player who will be out for the remainder of that season (if the player is disabled between July 1 and November 30) or the following season (if the player is disabled after November 30). This exception can also be granted in the event of a player's death. This exception can only be used to acquire one player. The maximum salary for the replacement player is 50% of the injured player's salary, or the average salary, whichever is less (see question number 24 for the definition of "average salary").

Approval from the league (based on a determination by an NBA-designated physician) is required for this exception to be used. This exception can be used to sign a free agent, or to create room to accept a salary in trade.

When used for trade, the team may acquire a player whose salary (including any trade bonus) is up to 100% of this exception plus $100,000 (not 125%). Also see question number 20 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

[Diesel]

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JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises.

for cap purposes it is a normal deal with max raises. But in reality he made the most money in year 1.

In year 1, JJ made 14 million.

IN year 5, he will make 14.9 million.

Check it.

BK frontloaded the deal to make it tougher for the Suns to match. He got much more than $14 millon in year one. If i remember right he got $20 million in year 1.

It was guestimated that he would get 20 million but 20 million don't work with what he's getting now.

5 year 70 million.

if you take off 20 million, he gets 4 year 50 million (average of 12.5).

However,

JJ is set to make 14.3 million this year and 14.9 million next year.

That doesn't work.

[exodus]

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JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises.

for cap purposes it is a normal deal with max raises. But in reality he made the most money in year 1.

In year 1, JJ made 14 million.

IN year 5, he will make 14.9 million.

Check it.

BK frontloaded the deal to make it tougher for the Suns to match. He got much more than $14 millon in year one. If i remember right he got $20 million in year 1.

It was guestimated that he would get 20 million but 20 million don't work with what he's getting now.

5 year 70 million.

if you take off 20 million, he gets 4 year 50 million (average of 12.5).

However,

JJ is set to make 14.3 million this year and 14.9 million next year.

That doesn't work.

I believe that those salaries are just for purposes of calculating the cap. JJ's signing bonus was spread out equally each year for cap purposes i believe.

[Admin]

LOL? That's the best you can do? It's truly sad that you can't swallow your pride enough to admit that decreasing salaries ARE NOT THE SAME AMOUNT EACH YEAR.

Did I say that nobody has EVER signed a deal like that? Find me a deal with a contract that starts at 11 million or more per year and doesn't include the standard raises.

Wrong? Hmm, then I guess Hoopsyhpe and Shamsports have it wrong since they BOTH show his salary increasing each year.

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Joe Johnson  	$13,488,377  	$14,232,566  	$14,976,754

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[Diesel]

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JJ's was frontloaded, but somehow it was administered so that he still got raises.

for cap purposes it is a normal deal with max raises. But in reality he made the most money in year 1.

In year 1, JJ made 14 million.

IN year 5, he will make 14.9 million.

Check it.

BK frontloaded the deal to make it tougher for the Suns to match. He got much more than $14 millon in year one. If i remember right he got $20 million in year 1.

It was guestimated that he would get 20 million but 20 million don't work with what he's getting now.

5 year 70 million.

if you take off 20 million, he gets 4 year 50 million (average of 12.5).

However,

JJ is set to make 14.3 million this year and 14.9 million next year.

That doesn't work.

I believe that those salaries are just for purposes of calculating the cap. JJ's signing bonus was spread out equally each year for cap purposes i believe.

Like I said, that was a guestimation.

So, You think JJ makes something like:

20 million, 11 million, 12 million, 13 million, 14million?

I don't think so.

Moreover, why is it that it's correct in the case of Zaza, Diaw, and Shaq's funny contracts?

[exodus]

of $14 million or more which isn't even possible as Trace pointed out. That means that these people either.

1) don't know that max deals can't start at more than $13 million

or

2) they were basing their vote on the average salary over the life of the deal.

[Admin]

I was afraid of that. Well then let's hope that he comes back ready to play this year. If he can stay healthy we would have a pretty good trio of PGs. He damn well better not take minutes from Acie though!

[Guest]

That exception just means we would have roughly $2.6 million to spend on one player. We cannot combine it with the MLE, so its just $2.6 million for one player. That is an alright amount for someone but I wouldn't go crazy. And also Speedy's salary would still count when determining the Luxury Tax, so its not really something we should be banking on or anything like that.

And yes, we could use it as a buffer in a trade (unlike TPE) so that is good. However that just adds to complication so I think it is just easier for people to understand we have roughly $19 million coming off after 08-09.

[Admin]

Go back and read what Trace said. Here I'll quote it for you to make it easier.

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The max for a player with Smoove's years of service was $12M in 05-06, $12.45M in 06-07 and $13M ($13,041,250) in 07-08. Taking the above into account, it stands to reason that the max will be

around $13.6M

in 08-09.

Do you understand the difference between making an educated guess based on past figures and a set number based on fact? You see, Trace said "around 13.6" so he doesn't know the exact amount and it could be 14.000000000001 for all we know. All that can be done at this point is make an educated guess. Back to the original post though, the title of the post was "What is the limit per year you would go for Smith?" not "What is the limit that you would go for Smith this year?". You see, what I wanted to know is what the dollar amount people thought Smith would be worth. I think people understood that fairly well based on the title of the thread which was (for most) pretty self explanatory.

[exodus]

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That exception just means we would have roughly $2.6 million to spend on one player.

We cannot combine it with the MLE

, so its just $2.6 million for one player. That is an alright amount for someone but I wouldn't go crazy. And also Speedy's salary would still count when determining the Luxury Tax, so its not really something we should be banking on or anything like that.

And yes, we could use it as a buffer in a trade (unlike TPE) so that is good. However that just adds to complication so I think it is just easier for people to understand we have roughly $19 million coming off after 08-09.

Is it possible to combine money from the LLE with money from the MLE to sign someone?

[Guest]

I remember discussing this with someone a while ago, and there needs to be clarification on JJ's contract.

What he got paid is different from his Cap Hits. Also his base salary is different from what he got paid.

JJ's base salary increases. I believe it started around 9-11 million and had 10% raises. So yes every year he got raises. However, he received a signing bonus that was roughly 10 million. So he got paid roughly 20 million his first season, then it declined his second season and then rose each subsequent year. He was paid more in his 1st season than in any other season because of his signing bonus.

In terms of Cap Hits, basically you take his base salary and add 1/5th or his signing bonus. So for his Cap Hits, he continually rises the same amount each year. I believe he started off at around 12.75 million and rose 10% each year.

*Disclaimer, all numbers (except 10% raises and 1/5th of signing bonus) is a guestimation so do not take them to be accurate. They are probably within 1-2 million but in no way are they definite.

[Guest]

No, the MLE cannot be combined with anything. However, you can divide up the MLE. So you could sign someone for $1.5 million and another for $3 million using your MLE and still have roughly another million to spend on someone else.

[Admin]

I could be wrong but didn't we remove the huge up front money once we decided to do a SnT instead of trying to get him as a FA?