Settling for Mediocrity.

[Diesel]

Damn I hate mediocrity. Why are we settling for it. In the last 2 days.....

Mike Miller has been traded.

Richard Jefferson has been traded.

OJ Mayo has been traded.

I'm not NBAsuperstar but I believe that I suggested that all of these guys would be moved because their teams had other needs.

Yet, we're stuck believing that our saving grace will be the Joshes and Marvin.

The Joshes and Marvin will lead us to mediocrity. Had we been a player in one of those deals, we would have been pushed into championship quality over the next 4 years. Right now, our 4 year outlook seems to be that of Mediocrity.

[*]Regardless of how much fan support Marvin gets, he will not be much better than he is right now. Not under Woody.

[*]We're playing JJ to death.

[*]Bibs can be good but he's streaky and injury prone and he's here for only this year.

[*]Josh Smith has great potential but his BBIQ must increase.

[*]Josh Childress is a really good complimentary piece but he's not going to lead us on the court.

[*]Horford is the bright shining star on the horizon but we're forced to play him out of position.

[*]Acie is a big question mark.

So the question is What's Sund going to do?

[Supporter]

yeh im kinda troubled by the fact that if smith is signed he will be our power forward, but horford seems like he could thrive at that postion, but smith isnt exactly a small forward......i hate you billy knight

[coachx]

What should Sund have done Diesel ?

I know you were hot for Mike Miller and I've been hot for RJ. They both got traded but what could Sund have done ?

1. We had nothing Memphis wanted for Mike Miller. They are set at SF with Gay and have young PGs (so Marvin and Bibby have little value to them)

2. To get RJ we could have offered Marvin / Speedy or even Marvin / Bibby. However, I think the Nets liked Yi and his marketability to the huge, local NY Asian population and global popualtion over Marvin. Plus Law is not proven enough to trade Bibby away just yet and they don't need Bibby and Harris. Not to mention they got a servicable player in Simmons (more then one could say for Speedy).

I want to see this Hawks group start a season healthy and with chemistry to see exactly how good they are. Meanwhile alot of Eastern Conference teams will be stiring the pot with new players and developing the chemistry that we should already have. (Bobcats, Bucks Bulls, Knicks, Heat, etc adapting to new coaching philosophies, / RJ adapting to the Bucks, many rookies adapting to the NBA, etc.

I don't blame Sund for anything right now.

Now I do wish he had the ability to take a flyer on a 2nd round pick. Especially one of the many bigs taken in the 2nd. Chances are they will be no better then Solo but why not play the game a little ? Maybe ownership did not want to burn $500 to buy a 2nd round pick and then another $400k on it's salary.......or maybe Sund and the owners would rather burn that money on veteran ?

Coming into draft night I was not expecting anything.

Resign the Joshes and add a decent defensive big or shooter and mission is accomplised to me.

Then Sund can actually watch the team play together before he makes any big decisions. I can't blame him for that. After all we have 3 expiring contracts that will command alot of value attention if a deal is desired later, once Law or others prove themselves.

[Diesel]

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What should Sund have done Diesel ?

I know you were hot for Mike Miller and I've been hot for RJ. They both got traded but what could Sund have done ?

1. We had nothing Memphis wanted for Mike Miller. They are set at SF with Gay and have young PGs (so Marvin and Bibby have little value to them)

2. To get RJ we could have offered Marvin / Speedy or evern Marvin / Bibby. However, I think the Nets liked Yi and his marketability to the huge, local NY Asian population and global popualtion over Marvin. Plus Law is not proven enough to trade Bibby away just yet. Not to mention they got a servicable player in Simmons (more then one could say for Speedy).

I want to see this Hawks group start a season healthy and with chemistry to see exactly how good they are. Meanwhile alot of Eastern Conference teams will be stiring the pot with new players and develop the chemistry that we should already have. (Bobcats, Bucks Bulls, Knicks, etc adapting to new coaching philosophies, / RJ adapting to the Bucks, rookies adapting to the NBA, etc.

I don't blame Sund for anything right now.

Now I do wish he had the ability to take a flyer on a 2nd round pick. Especially one of the many bigs taken in the 2nd. Chances are they will be no better then Solo but why not play the game a little ? Maybe ownership did not want to burn $500 to buy a 2nd round pick and then another $400k on it's salary.......or maybe Sund and the owners would rather burn that money on veteran ?

Coming into draft noght I was not expecting anything.

Resign the Joshes and add a decent defensive big or shooter and mission is accomplised to me.

Then Sund can actually watch the team play together before he makes any big decisions. I can't blame him for that. After all we have 3 expiring contracts that will command alot of value attention if a deal is desired later, once Law or others prove themselves.

I think we could have inserted ourselve in a deal for Mike Miller. Memphis basically got robbed late last night. Mayo (taken third by Minnesota), Antoine Walker, Marko Jaric and Greg Buckner for Love, Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal and Jason Collins.

Now we could have been on either end of this deal. Minnesota's purpose was to drop bad contracts and they did. Look at that... Buckner, Jaric.... Walker.. IF Memphis was this naive, we could have gotten Miller somehow.

[Admin]

Okay let's assume that either/both of Minnesota and Memphis were calling teams talking about a deal they were working on and trying to get another team involved, which I find highly unlikely that they did, but for the sake of argument let's say that they did. What could we have done to get in on that deal and who were you trying to get from the deal? Minnesota clearly wanted Mike Miller so he wasn't coming here so how do we fit in Diesel?

[Admin]

I agree with you on all of your points coach. Sund told us that they weren't going to be involved in the draft unless something drastically changed and I doubt that happened. He said their priorities are to sign the Joshes and add cheap vets rather than cheap rookies. So far he has been honest with us and has stuck to the plan. Let's see where we go from here before we start panicking. Free agency hasn't started yet and there is sure to still be a lot of excitement and some trades to come. I just wish people would stop freaking out like we are doing absolutely nothing when it's not even July yet.

[Wurider05]

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Okay let's assume that either/both of Minnesota and Memphis were calling teams talking about a deal they were working on and trying to get another team involved, which I find highly unlikely that they did, but for the sake of argument let's say that they did. What could we have done to get in on that deal and who were you trying to get from the deal? Minnesota clearly wanted Mike Miller so he wasn't coming here so how do we fit in Diesel?

I agree. Just because they did business with the Timberwolves that doesn't mean that they would have done business with us. The wolves wanted Mike Miller. They (memphis) have a SF and a pg. So the Marvin trade of the day wouldn't work here. The only thing that I could think of would be SNT for Smoove but even that is a headscratcher for me. Some of the posters act like they know for a fact that we could have got in on these trades. And I find it funny that in nearly every trade we are giving up our so called resident bum Marvin Williams who according to a lot of you doesn't even belong in the NBA. GEEZ!!!

[DrReality]

The ASG are like a lot of families in this struggling economy with soring gas prices. They have to cut back and look for deals. That's the reality of it and all of D's post have little foundation in realiy. This is Sekou's take on the FAs.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 26, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

I can’t speak for the Hawks at all. But if I were the GM of this team and I knew I needed some quality vets to fill out my roster and serve as a security staff for my youngsters, I’d start with (and this is just my working list going into July 1):

BIGS: Dikembe Mutombo Aaron Williams Malik Allen Eduardo Najera Earl Barron DeSagana Diop Brian Skinner Francisco Elson

WINGS/GUARDS: Mike Finley Jarvis Hayes Jannero Pargo Bostjan Nachbar Casey Jacobsen Quinton Ross Devin Brown

Those are just the unrestricted cats I’d be investigating to see if they could work on my team (there are other names you’d explore in trades, mainly anybody on any roster that’s under contract for next season). Remember, I’ve got starters at every spot (theoretically) so what I need right now is quality players to fill out my roster.

I’ve also got a backup PG I’m working with (Acie Law IV), so I’m not going heavy on the PGs. But I need frontcourt depth, someone to backup Joe Johnson and a defensive tone-setted off the bench to disrupt things for opposing teams.

I think the names at the end of the lists are most realistic.

[AnakinJoe]

I'm telling you, you're going to drive yourself CRAZY thinking the Hawks have the means or desire to acquire another big-time contract. How much money moved last night between T'Wolves and Grizzlies? We're not operating like that.

I'd bet a small fortune that we're not acquiring (through trade, free agency or kidnapping) a guy who makes more than $7M during this off-season. The only exception is if we fail to re-sign one (or both) of the Joshes (or if ownership moves Speedy's insurance revenue stream). But until those deals get done, we're shopping at The Dollar Tree.

Adonal Foyle, Patrick O'Bryant, Fran Elson, Michael Doleac, Brian Skinner, Michael Ruffin, Fred Jones, Jarvis Hayes, Kareem Rush, Juan Dixon, Jeremy Richardson, Mario West. That's our likely shopping list. (Would Mutombo come back to Atlanta? If so, add him to the list).

[Admin]

I have seen Jarvis Hayes mentioned by writers and posters here but does anything really think we can afford him? I think he set himself up for a decent payday with his performance last season. If we could get him for half (or close it) of our MLE I would be all over it though.

[Diesel]

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Okay let's assume that either/both of Minnesota and Memphis were calling teams talking about a deal they were working on and trying to get another team involved, which I find highly unlikely that they did, but for the sake of argument let's say that they did. What could we have done to get in on that deal and who were you trying to get from the deal? Minnesota clearly wanted Mike Miller so he wasn't coming here so how do we fit in Diesel?

I agree. Just because they did business with the Timberwolves that doesn't mean that they would have done business with us. The wolves wanted Mike Miller. They (memphis) have a SF and a pg. So the Marvin trade of the day wouldn't work here. The only thing that I could think of would be SNT for Smoove but even that is a headscratcher for me. Some of the posters act like they know for a fact that we could have got in on these trades. And I find it funny that in nearly every trade we are giving up our so called resident bum Marvin Williams who according to a lot of you doesn't even belong in the NBA. GEEZ!!!

My point is that I see good players being traded for TRASH... and I say, surely we could have comeup with a better deal. That's all I'm saying. I'm looking at how these teams are meeting their needs either by taking on ending contracts for good players (RJ) or just taking on trash (Memphis) and I say... were we contacted at all? My problem is with our montra... The whole league now knows we just want to resign the Joshes. My point is that I don't hink that's enough. We have to still be active in negotiations because the Joshes alone won't make us better than Mediocre.

[coachx]

My point is that I see good players being traded for TRASH... and I say, surely we could have comeup with a better deal. That's all I'm saying. I'm looking at how these teams are meeting their needs either by taking on ending contracts for good players (RJ) or just taking on trash (Memphis) and I say... were we contacted at all? My problem is with our montra... The whole league now knows we just want to resign the Joshes. My point is that I don't hink that's enough. We have to still be active in negotiations because the Joshes alone won't make us better than Mediocre.

So now the consensus #3 player in the draft who many think has "superstar potential" (OJ Mayo) WHO IS BEING PAID ON A ROOKIE CONTRACT is TRASH ?

Sorry man, can't buy that one. Memphis wanted Mayo and the Wolves wanted Love since they already got Foye ! We had neither to trade ! (The Grizz been HOT for real SG for a while )Their GM has said over and over again that they would NOT give away Mike Miller. He was the bargaining chip that allowed them to get their 2nd franchise cornerstone in Mayo. Is Love a franchise cornerstone. Hell no ! He will be a solid pro if all works out but franchise cornerstone he will never be in the NBA.

Would a big man rotation of Love, Gasol Jr., and Darko have gotten them anywhere ? Doubtful. Now a DYNAMIC a backcourt of Conley / Mayo with one of the most exciting young players in the league in Gay and really have something !

[Plainview1981]

C'mon. None of these guys are going to help you. Earl Barron?? Isn't he one of those minor leaguers that was playing for Miami the second half of the season? Deke needs to retire now. He can't play day in and day out. He don't have anything left in the tank anyway. This is what happens when you have a 14 million dollar PG that can barely shoot 40%.

[Diesel]

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My point is that I see good players being traded for TRASH... and I say, surely we could have comeup with a better deal. That's all I'm saying. I'm looking at how these teams are meeting their needs either by taking on ending contracts for good players (RJ) or just taking on trash (Memphis) and I say... were we contacted at all? My problem is with our montra... The whole league now knows we just want to resign the Joshes. My point is that I don't hink that's enough. We have to still be active in negotiations because the Joshes alone won't make us better than Mediocre.

So now the consensus #3 player in the draft who many think has "superstar potential" (OJ Mayo) WHO IS BEING PAID ON A ROOKIE CONTRACT is TRASH ?

Sorry man, can't buy that one. Memphis wanted Mayo and the Wolves wanted Love since they already got Foye ! We had neither to trade ! (The Grizz been HOT for real SG for a while )Their GM has said over and over again that they would NOT give away Mike Miller. He was the bargaining chip that allowed them to get their 2nd franchise cornerstone in Mayo. Is Love a franchise cornerstone. Hell no ! He will be a solid pro if all works out but franchise cornerstone he will never be in the NBA.

Would a big man rotation of Love, Gasol Jr., and Darko have gotten them anywhere ? Doubtful. Now a DYNAMIC a backcourt of Conley / Mayo with one of the most exciting young players in the league in Gay and really have something !

I don't think the Wolves wanted Love as much as you say. I think the Wolves could have gotten Love if they wanted him. Moreover, the Wolves could have stuck with McCants. He's younger and cheaper than Miller. What the wolves did was they took Mayo and traded him and all of their trash for Miller, Love...

I'm not saying that Mayo is trash, but I'm saying that he's not worth all the trash that Memphis took and the good players they gave away.

Somehow, I believe we could have made a better deal.

[khaos7]

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Damn I hate mediocrity. Why are we settling for it. In the last 2 days.....

Mike Miller has been traded.

Richard Jefferson has been traded.

OJ Mayo has been traded.

I'm not NBAsuperstar but I believe that I suggested that all of these guys would be moved because their teams had other needs.

Yet, we're stuck believing that our saving grace will be the Joshes and Marvin.

The Joshes and Marvin will lead us to mediocrity. Had we been a player in one of those deals, we would have been pushed into championship quality over the next 4 years. Right now, our 4 year outlook seems to be that of Mediocrity.

[*]
Regardless of how much fan support Marvin gets, he will not be much better than he is right now. Not under Woody.
[*]
We're playing JJ to death.
[*]
Bibs can be good but he's streaky and injury prone and he's here for only this year.
[*]
Josh Smith has great potential but his BBIQ must increase.
[*]
Josh Childress is a really good complimentary piece but he's not going to lead us on the court.
[*]
Horford is the bright shining star on the horizon but we're forced to play him out of position.
[*]
Acie is a big question mark.

So the question is What's Sund going to do?

I agree with you Diesel. I think we all have to look at the totality of what's gone on here in the past few years. Aside from trading for Joe and Bibby, it seems like this team has done very little (aside from accumulate young talent) to get better. It never seems like we're involved in major moves.

Again, aside from JJ and Bibby, who have we acquired? Jeremy Richardson? Lorenzen Wright? Anthony Johnson? Speedy Claxton? It's okay to keep young talent. However, most teams use their young talent (unless they are mainstays) to get talent to get them over the hump. This team seems content with maintaining the status quo.

Granted, we haven't entered into free agency. However, you never hear about us involved in anything. I'd argue the only reason why Billy traded for Bibby was to save his job. After getting Bibby, it was his intent to fire Woody. He'd still be here now had he been able to fire Woody. So take Bibby out of the equation, the only deal this team has made that didn't point towards mediocrity is the JJ trade.

Sund/ASG has lost a considerable amount of the capital it gained during the Boston series.

After 9 years of losing, it's not unreasonable for a fan (Diesel in this case) to want his team to do something daring.

The question was posed, what should Sund do? I'd counter by saying improve the team. No more excuses. Let's win baby. He said he was going to bring in veterens to help this team win. No more Lorenzens, Claxtons, John Edwards, and Anthony Johnsons.

If the Lakers could trade Kwame Brown for Gasol and the Celtics could get Garnett for Al Jefferson and the Pips, surely the Hawks could have made a daring move in these last few years.

Mediocrity breeds a boat load of excuses.