Speedy for Tinsley?

[sturt]

Not suggesting the Pacers would be this desperate (though Bird's recent statements indicate they aren't far from it)...

Would you trade a player who costs you $5.7 and $5.2 with no promise of ever providing any actual minutes for your team...

for a player at the same position who costs you $6.7, then $7.2, and then $7.5... essentially $1 mil more this season, $2 mil more next, and $7.5 mil more the following season... who has a history of both injury and off-court problems, but at least has the potential to provide some help to the team...???

Your thoughts?

For my part, I'd like to see Sund, assuming the opportunity would present itself, overhaul the PG situation TOTALLY this off-season. I like Bibby, but believe his defense ultimately is too suspect. I like Law, but believe its very risky to put any faith in him staying healthy enough for a full season, and that his value may very well be at its greatest right now while there's still some seeming optimism. And, of course, the Speedy situation is unchanged... may just be better to bite the bullet with him and wait out the 2 remaining years, but then again, if there's a way to convert his salary space into something at least useful, such as the above scenario, I'm interested to pursue it.

[Peoriabird]

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Not suggesting the Pacers would be this desperate (though Bird's recent statements indicate they aren't far from it)...

Would you trade a player who costs you $5.7 and $5.2 with no promise of ever providing any actual minutes for your team...

for a player at the same position who costs you $6.7, then $7.2, and then $7.5... essentially $1 mil more this season, $2 mil more next, and $7.5 mil more the following season... who has a history of both injury and off-court problems, but at least has the potential to provide some help to the team...???

Your thoughts?

For my part, I'd like to see Sund, assuming the opportunity would present itself, overhaul the PG situation TOTALLY this off-season. I like Bibby, but believe his defense ultimately is too suspect. I like Law, but believe its very risky to put any faith in him staying healthy enough for a full season, and that his value may very well be at its greatest right now while there's still some seeming optimism. And, of course, the Speedy situation is unchanged... may just be better to bite the bullet with him and wait out the 2 remaining years, but then again, if there's a way to convert his salary space into something at least useful, such as the above scenario, I'm interested to pursue it.

No!

[NJHAWK]

Truthfully Im not a huge fan of bringing Kwame in because of his off court troubles which are small compared to that jackayss Tinsley. There is no way in hell I want that scum near our young cats even if he came free with zero cap hit.

[Admin]

No because we will need that money for Horford and Acie. Tinsley is the type of player that can be effective but he is also highly injury prone and has a questionable, at best, attitude.

[jezmund]

No because Speedy could retire.

[mrhonline]

Reportedly, the Hawks tried to trade Harrington for Tinsley a few years ago, and Jamaal refused to come to Atlanta.

Just hearsay, but...

[sturt]

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Reportedly, the Hawks tried to trade Harrington for Tinsley a few years ago, and Jamaal refused to come to Atlanta.

Just hearsay, but...

Yeah, I remember hearing the same thing.

[exodus]

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Reportedly, the Hawks tried to trade Harrington for Tinsley a few years ago, and Jamaal refused to come to Atlanta.

Just hearsay, but...

A New York paper is reporting that the Pacers will buy out Tinsley if they can't trade him.

I was watching a game last year where he put on one of the most staggering displays of selfishness i have ever seen. Late in the 4th and in overtime he came down and shot over and over without letting anyone else touch the ball and he just kept missing. . I have never seen anything like it.

Check out the play by play late in the game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280109021

[exodus]

I started a thread about that game. It was hilarious to watch.

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I am watching the end of the Suns/Pacers game and Tinsley has taken every shot (at least 7 i would say) in overtime. he isn't even looking to pass.

The thing is other guys on the team were shooting well but he just wouldn't pass at all.

Wow he just chucked up another one as i was typing. I can't remember seeing anything like this.

Suns playing without Nash in the second half.

He was 4-18 in the 4th quarter and OT.

click

[sturt]

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VII_4.php

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(h) Long-Term Injuries. Any player who suffers a career-ending injury or illness, and whose contract is terminated by the Team in accordance with the NBA waiver procedure, will be excluded from his Team’s Team Salary as follows:

(1) Beginning on the first anniversary of the injury or illness, the Team may apply to the NBA to have the player’s Salary for each remaining Salary Cap Year covered by the Contract excluded from Team Salary.

(2) The determination of whether a player has suffered a career-ending injury or illness shall be made by a physician selected jointly by the NBA and the Players Association.

(3) Notwithstanding Section 4(h)(1) and (2) above, the career-ending injury or illness of a player who plays in more than ten (10) games in any Season shall not be deemed to have occurred prior to the last game in which the player played in such Season.

(4) Notwithstanding Section 4(h)(1) and (2) above, if after a player’s Salary is excluded from Team Salary in accordance with this Section 4(h), the player plays in ten (10) NBA games in any Season, the excluded Salary for the Salary Cap Year covering such Season and each subsequent Salary Cap Year shall thereupon be included in Team Salary (and if the tenth game played is a playoff game, then the excluded Salary shall be included in Salary retroactively as of the start of the Team’s last Regular Season game). After a player’s Salary for one (1) or more Salary Cap Years has been included in Team Salary in accordance with this Section 4(h)(4), the player’s Team shall be permitted at the appropriate time to re-apply to have the player’s Salary (for each Salary Cap Year remaining at the time of the re-application) excluded from Team Salary in accordance with the rules set forth in this Section 4(h).

(5) If a Team applies to have a player’s Salary excluded from its Team Salary pursuant to this Section 4(h), the player shall cooperate in the processing of the application, including by appearing at the reasonably scheduled place and time for examination by the jointly-selected physician.

(6) Only the Team with which the player was under Contract at the time his career-ending injury or illness became known or reasonably should have become known shall be permitted to apply to have the player’s Salary excluded from Team Salary pursuant to this Section 4(h).

Am I missing something here? It sounds as-if the Hawks only needed to wait until after 1 year after Speedy logged his last game, then could apply for Speedy's contract to not be counted against the cap....???

[mrhonline]

Yes. Speedy's current salary could come off the cap, if...

...he would only agree to retire. (He also has to be examined by the NBA's doctors).

[sturt]

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Yes. Speedy's current salary could come off the cap, if...

...

he would only agree to retire

.

Is that under the waiver section? (...because... it's not here unless I'm reading right over top of it.)

EDIT: Just reviewed "Exhibit A - Uniform Player Contract, Section 16. Terminiation," which under 16(f) specifies the waiver procedure.

I'm not inclined to believe that I'm the first one to notice this, so there's got to be something I'm missing. But the evidence here says nothing about the player having to retire, nor any indication whatsoever that the player has control over the situation. It appears to be a team thing and an NBA physician thing.

[hawkman]

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Yes. Speedy's current salary could come off the cap, if...

...he would only agree to retire. (He also has to be examined by the NBA's doctors).

There has to be something going on that we're just not seeing. Speedy HAS to know that he has no future with this team. We drafted Acie and then traded for Bibby, so he has to see the writing on the wall. Even the ASG was smart enough to "move on" from any hope of him coming back. I'm sure their doctors have already evaluated him repeatedly during his recovery process, and yet we have heard next to nothing indicating that Speedy will be able to play next season. It's time to call it a career and enjoy the good life Mr. Claxton. I actually liked Speedy, but this was one of the reasons why so many fans wanted Knight fired. This contract continues to haunt us.

[exodus]

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Yes. Speedy's current salary could come off the cap, if...

...he would only agree to retire. (He also has to be examined by the NBA's doctors).

There has to be something going on that we're just not seeing. Speedy HAS to know that he has no future with this team. We drafted Acie and then traded for Bibby, so he has to see the writing on the wall. Even the ASG was smart enough to "move on" from any hope of him coming back. I'm sure their doctors have already evaluated him repeatedly during his recovery process, and yet we have heard next to nothing indicating that Speedy will be able to play next season. It's time to call it a career and enjoy the good life Mr. Claxton. I actually liked Speedy, but this was one of the reasons why so many fans wanted Knight fired. This contract continues to haunt us.

Speedy was scheduled for microfracture surgery but after the doctor opened him up he apparently decided not to do it, saying it wouldn't help him. I am not sure what to make of that.

One issue that hasn't been mentioned here is that the majority of Speedy's salary is being paid by insurance. From the perspective of the ASG trading Speedy for Tinsley would be a major expense because they would have to obviously pay Tinsley's salary in full plus there is an extra year.

[hawkman]

Now that is scary. The fact that the doctors say that they couldn't help him tells me all I needed to know. It looks like his knee injury may be chronic(arthritis?). I'm glad insurance is picking up most of his salary but I hate the fact that his salary still counts against the cap. The only solution to this situation appears to be him retiring.

[sturt]

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Now that is scary. The fact that the doctors say that they couldn't help him tells me all I needed to know. It looks like his knee injury may be chronic(arthritis?). I'm glad insurance is picking up most of his salary but I hate the fact that his salary still counts against the cap. The only solution to this situation appears to be him retiring.

Ummm... see my posts above... and feel welcome to amend them with some additional info, but looking at the CBA as posted on the Players Association site, with regard to "long term injury," there is NOTHING THERE regarding retirement. The player still receives their salary, but the team has a procedure for getting the salary off their spreadsheet.

I don't know how we got into this Speedy-has-to-retire mode of thinking... perhaps it's correct, but I'm just saying, it's not apparent what the foundation was for that.

Fwiw, I'd also like to know where ex' info about the abandoned microfracture surgery is coming from... was that reported by Sekou or another source, or is it just the word on the street? I don't have any confidence in it b/c I never heard it reported. What's more, if it were that well-established that his condition is beyond repair, I'm not certain what Woodson was getting at the other day when, on the radio interview following his re-signing, he said that they'd be getting with Speedy in the next couple of weeks to get a read on what's going on with him (... that's a paraphrase).

[Guest]

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with regard to "long term injury," there is NOTHING THERE regarding retirement.

If Speedy does not retire and we use the Long-Term Injury, that means that Speedy is waived from our team. Speedy could then go to another team, sign for the minimum and then play 11 games. That would erase the LTI and the Hawks would be screwed.

So although there is nothing that says you have to retire, why would the Hawks attempt an LTI with the knowledge that Speedy could get on another team and ruin any benefit for the Hawks?

[Packfill]

Tinsley stinks. I see no value in him being on the Hawks roster.

[sturt]

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with regard to "long term injury," there is NOTHING THERE regarding retirement.

If Speedy does not retire and we use the Long-Term Injury, that means that Speedy is waived from our team. Speedy could then go to another team, sign for the minimum and then play 11 games. That would erase the LTI and the Hawks would be screwed.

So although there is nothing that says you have to retire, why would the Hawks attempt an LTI with the knowledge that Speedy could get on another team and ruin any benefit for the Hawks?

I see your point.... for this year, anyhow, since indeed you wouldn't want to have both years' salaries come back to bite you.

For next year, though, assuming he's in no better condition at this point, there's nothing to lose and everything (ie, $5.2 million) in cap room to gain.

Right?

[Guest]

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For next year, though, assuming he's in no better condition at this point, there's nothing to lose and everything (ie, $5.2 million) in cap room to gain.

Right?

Exactly, might as well go for the LTI in that situation.