Tsk, Tsk, Tsk...

[Diesel]

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It wasn't too long ago that free agents only stopped in Chicago to catch connecting flights to other, more competitive cities. How things have changed.

Kirk Hinrich

Hinrich

After landing the marquee free agent of the offseason in Ben Wallace, the Bulls have convinced point guard Kirk Hinrich to sign a long-term extension -- and for a hometown discount.

The Chicago Tribune cited league sources on Tuesday saying that the Kansas product has agreed to a five-year deal worth $47.5 million. T

he extension kicks in for the 2007-08 season and is front-loaded, with the first year paying approximately $11.42 million and then tailing off to about $7.8 million in the final year. The structure offers the Bulls financial flexibility in coming years when Andres Nocioni, Luol Deng and Ben Gordon are due new contracts.

If Hinrich had not accepted the deal by 11:59 p.m. Tuesday, he would have become a restricted free agent next summer and the Bulls would have had the opportunity to match any offer. Now, that angst-ridden process can safely be canceled.

"It's a dream come true, completely," Hinrich said. "To be with this organization, an organization that I grew up cheering for and was a big fan of and to be able to provide my family with security, it's just a great day. … My parents used to scrap pennies to provide for me, and now I'm making almost $50 million playing basketball."

Bulls executive vice president of basketball operations John Paxson was equally happy.

"Kirk Hinrich is imperative to the foundation of our organization and we are extremely pleased to have him with us long term," he said. "We are attempting to build a team based on character and commitment and these are both traits that Kirk possesses at a very high level. This is a very good day for the Chicago Bulls organization."

In his third season in the league last year, Hinrich averaged 15.9 points and 6.3 assists and established himself as one of the top defensive guards in the league. He was a somewhat surprise edition to the U.S. National team that played in this summer's FIBA World Championship.

Hinrich and his representatives had been asking for money similar to the six-year, $66 million deal Tony Parker signed with the Spurs on the eve of the 2004-05 season, but a look around the league revealed that not many teams could fit him under the salary cap for that kind of money.

The Tribune reported that Hinrich and Paxson recently had a private meeting where it is thought that the former Bulls guard convinced his current one that he could be part of something big in Chicago.

As recently as Sunday, however, Hinrich said he didn't think the deal would get done in time. But it did, and he signed it only a few hours before the Bulls opened their season with a 108-66 victory over the Miami Heat.

Click here.

Surely, frontloaded contract don't effect the salary cap... It's spread out equally among the contract. Surely!!! The Bulls were just fooling themselves when they resigned Hinrich. I mean, they frontloaded his extension to pay him more... Not to help them resign all of their free agents!??!

Nocioni's contract is also frontloaded? when he signed his extension, Chicago front loaded it for the hell of it too!!

[mrhonline]

I guess I haven't been paying attention, but what's your point here? What's being argued?

[Guest]

What was the TPE generated in the Joe Johnson trade?

As I have explained before, there are 3 kinds of frontloaded contracts. A declining salary, a signing bonus, or both. Hinrich's deal is a declining salary. That is DIFFERENT from the signing bonus we have been discussing with Joe Johnson and Josh Smith.

[BigDirty]

He'll never understand, it's hopeless.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL.

Is it obvious to everyone but YOU, that "frontloaded" in Hinrich's contract simply means that he's getting what would be his 5th year salary FIRST, and what would be his 1st year salary, LAST?

It's not a signing bonus or a balloon payment added onto his base salary. It's simply his salary paid in reverse order of how it is usually done.

[Guest]

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He'll never understand, it's hopeless.

I know, but at the same time I enjoy seeing him just run away from the board when posed with that question. Also this thread was clearly a jab at all the people who have been telling Diesel the truth about the CBA, so it needed responding to.

At this point, only an irrational person would take Diesel's position. So its either an act or he really believes his stance. I say its probably a 25% chance that it is an act.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

He's not acting. He knows he's "right" and is determined to prove everyone wrong . . . because everyone is telling him that he's wrong.

He has to be right . . . he just has to.

[Diesel]

My point is that a frontloaded contract counts against the cap AND that in the years follow, the contracted amounts also count against the cap.

So just like in the case of Hinrich, his contract was front-loaded... in the first year, the 11 Million + counted against the cap. In the latter years, as the cap hit goes down, it gives the team the benefit of spending more own their on free agents.

Others here are saying that the frontload only matters in how much the owners spend and has nothing to do with cap savings because it's still calculated as a "Cap hit" like it would be if it were a regular contract with standard raises. (equally per year).

I have shown many cases of frontloaded contracts that did just as I have said.

The resigning of Hinrich.

The resigning of Nocioni.

The resigning of D. West.

The resigning of Collision.

The resigning of Ridnour.

Hell, we even signed Speedy to a frontloaded deal.

Later, in this thread, I see more personal attacks (trying to invalidate the truth I have displayed here without addressing them)...

So, I will just wait to see anybody give a validated answer.

That means... For Hawksfantic... Don't tell me what you think about David West's contract. Show me where somebody says he was frontloaded to give him more money upfront. I have shown you on these several occassions where teams have a benefit in the cap for frontloading. The least that you can do is get off your sorry ass and backup what you say with more than these poor personal attacks!

[Diesel]

Show me in the CBA where it talks about 3 types of frontloaded contracts!

[Diesel]

The sooner you figure out we're not talking about traded players, the better this discussion would be. I have shown you several players that were resigned by their own teams... They were given front-loaded contracts which allowed them the team to benefit (capwise) in the long run. Why are you persistently trying to change the subject to something that's so irrelevant??

Maybe that's what you do.

Change the subject.

Change the subject.

Personal attack.

I haven't personally attacked you at all ( in an effort to make what I'm saying look more important). If i did, this would be a less fun place... because I believe that I can do it much better than you. If you have no facts to back up the BS you are saying then just be quiet.

[exodus]

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So just like in the case of Hinrich, his contract was front-loaded... in the first year, the 11 Million + counted against the cap.

In the latter years, as the cap hit goes down

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Hinrichs salary goes down each year BUT JJ's SALARY DOESN'T GO DOWN EACH YEAR . Therefore they obviously aren't the same type of contract.

[DrReality]

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He's not acting. He knows he's "right" and is determined to prove everyone wrong . . . because everyone is telling him that he's wrong.

He has to be right . . . he just has to.

That's what every one of his post is about.

[DrReality]

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The sooner you figure out we're not talking about traded players, the better this discussion would be. I have shown you several players that were resigned by their own teams... They were given front-loaded contracts which allowed them the team to benefit (capwise) in the long run. Why are you persistently trying to change the subject to something that's so irrelevant??

Maybe that's what you do.

Change the subject.

Change the subject.

Personal attack.

I haven't personally attacked you at all ( in an effort to make what I'm saying look more important). If i did, this would be a less fun place... because I believe that I can do it much better than you. If you have no facts to back up the BS you are saying then just be quiet.

I love it when he gets defensive.

[Diesel]

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The sooner you figure out we're not talking about traded players, the better this discussion would be. I have shown you several players that were resigned by their own teams... They were given front-loaded contracts which allowed them the team to benefit (capwise) in the long run. Why are you persistently trying to change the subject to something that's so irrelevant??

Maybe that's what you do.

Change the subject.

Change the subject.

Personal attack.

I haven't personally attacked you at all ( in an effort to make what I'm saying look more important). If i did, this would be a less fun place... because I believe that I can do it much better than you. If you have no facts to back up the BS you are saying then just be quiet.

I love it when he gets defensive.

So far I have seen three responses and NONE seem to attempt to answer the intent of the thread. I wonder why? Maybe it's because you all have your heads stuck up my ass? Hey Dr Reality... Tell Me how my ass taste? Hey Ex, tell me how my ass taste?

[exodus]

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The sooner you figure out we're not talking about traded players, the better this discussion would be. I have shown you several players that were resigned by their own teams... They were given front-loaded contracts which allowed them the team to benefit (capwise) in the long run. Why are you persistently trying to change the subject to something that's so irrelevant??

Maybe that's what you do.

Change the subject.

Change the subject.

Personal attack.

I haven't personally attacked you at all ( in an effort to make what I'm saying look more important). If i did, this would be a less fun place... because I believe that I can do it much better than you. If you have no facts to back up the BS you are saying then just be quiet.

I love it when he gets defensive.

So far I have seen three responses and NONE seem to attempt to answer the intent of the thread. I wonder why? Maybe it's because you all have your heads stuck up my ass? Hey Dr Reality... Tell Me how my ass taste? Hey Ex, tell me how my ass taste?

You are the only person on this site who doesn't understand the difference between increasing and decreasing salaries. Congratulations!!

[AHF]

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Surely, frontloaded contract don't effect the salary cap... It's spread out equally among the contract. Surely!!! The Bulls were just fooling themselves when they resigned Hinrich. I mean, they frontloaded his extension to pay him more... Not to help them resign all of their free agents!??!

Nocioni's contract is also frontloaded? when he signed his extension, Chicago front loaded it for the hell of it too!!

A contract with a signing bonus has that frontloaded bonus spread out over the guaranteed years of a contract. In such a contract, the cap hit of the base salary may decline or increase over the length of the contract - that is independent from the signing bonus that is spread over the contract.

A contract with a base salary that declines over time without a signing bonus is like every other contract without a bonus and counts against the cap whatever the base salary is during that season.

I don't understand the relevance of talking about a declining base salary contract here, though. Smith is not going to be offered a contract like Hinrich's. Are you now arguing that Philly is going to frontload Smith's contract by offering him a declining deal like:

11M, 10M, 9M, 8M, 7M?

That adds up to the same $45M he was already offered.

I pray they do and that he signs it. However, that would put a lot less $$ in his pocket which is the opposite of what a contract with raises and a signing bonus would do.

[Diesel]

Dude. There's a cap hit that applies to a decresing salary. A frontloaded contract Benefits the team.

Maybe you're a board full of ass tasters... I don't know. However, there's definitely a communications problem...

Because from the beginning, I have been clear in saying that you cannot erase the benefit that the team gets from frontloading the contract... and you asstasters have said that the contracts have the same cap hit as if it had standard raises. NOW the ass tasters are changing their view... Now it's three types of frontloaded contracts... What's next... a purple gorilla comes along and decides what type of frontloaded contract it is.

Ex. Tell me how my ass tastes!

[AHF]

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Dude. There's a cap hit that applies to a decresing salary. A frontloaded contract Benefits the team.

Maybe you're a board full of ass tasters... I don't know. However, there's definitely a communications problem...

Because from the beginning, I have been clear in saying that you cannot erase the benefit that the team gets from frontloading the contract... and you asstasters have said that the contracts have the same cap hit as if it had standard raises. NOW the ass tasters are changing their view... Now it's three types of frontloaded contracts... What's next... a purple gorilla comes along and decides what type of frontloaded contract it is.

Ex. Tell me how my ass tastes!

I would not taunt the board about this issue, D. This is not the first time people have mentioned that there are multiple meanings for the word "frontload."

[Diesel]

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Surely, frontloaded contract don't effect the salary cap... It's spread out equally among the contract. Surely!!! The Bulls were just fooling themselves when they resigned Hinrich. I mean, they frontloaded his extension to pay him more... Not to help them resign all of their free agents!??!

Nocioni's contract is also frontloaded? when he signed his extension, Chicago front loaded it for the hell of it too!!

A contract with a signing bonus has that frontloaded bonus spread out over the guaranteed years of a contract. In such a contract, the cap hit of the base salary may decline or increase over the length of the contract - that is independent from the signing bonus that is spread over the contract.

A contract with a base salary that declines over time without a signing bonus is like every other contract without a bonus and counts against the cap whatever the base salary is during that season.

I don't understand the relevance of talking about a declining base salary contract here, though. Smith is not going to be offered a contract like Hinrich's. Are you now arguing that Philly is going to frontload Smith's contract by offering him a declining deal like:

11M, 10M, 9M, 8M, 7M?

That adds up to the same $45M he was already offered.

I pray they do and that he signs it. However, that would put a lot less $$ in his pocket which is the opposite of what a contract with raises and a signing bonus would do.

What I am saying is that frontloading a contract either way has no benefit to the team if the "cap hit" is the same as if you have a standard contract.

[exodus]

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Because from the beginning, I have been clear in saying that you cannot erase the benefit that the team gets from frontloading the contrac

The team benefits in the case of a declining salary but that is completely different than the type of deal JJ had. JJ had a signing bonus.

You simply can't grasp the difference between a signing bonus and a decreasing salary.

The problem for the owners in the case of a signing bonus has nothing to do with the cap. The problem is paying so much cash in the first year.