Once BELKIN OWNS THE HAWKS

[TroyMcClure]

:lol6:

Who cares if you like the coach or not. So, because you don't like Mike Woodson, that means the players aren't good ?

Is english your first language? This is what I said.

The players aren't my cup of tea, but they could surely win more than 37 games with another coach.

See, I don't really like the composition of our roster but we could win a few more games with a competent coach. Just the type we will never have if they own the team. Get it? I'm a fan because I've lived here my whole life and I'm a Homer. What these guys have done is just not competent. We deserve better.

I

Edited August 25, 2008 by TroyMcClure

[EazyRoc]

Tool ? Moron ? :lol6:

So, you couldn't think of a creative way to argue your points so you start namecalling. It makes you sound like the moron. Who says tool anyways ? Man..

You are a tool. THe roster is crap compared to what it could be, but if we had ownership that was intelligent we would have surely canned the GM years ago and the coach as well. If you don't see incompetence in Mike Woodson you know absolutely nothing about basketball. They obviously don't know anything. They will never win because they themselves are incompetent. it's not that hard.

And your a basketball genius ? Note that I never said a word about Woodson's competence, but because you have no other way to prove your point you start by calling me a tool and veering off subject. Brilliant. Just f'in brilliant. On top of all of that, Mr. Belkin tried to veto the Johnson trade and actually thought about taking actions that could have resulted in the Hawks losing 5 draft picks. Mr. Belkin is the second coming of jesus, alright.

You once again prove that your post count does nothing to show that you know what you're talking about. By the way, how many teams in the NBA have All stars coming off the bench ? Don't worry..I'll wait.

In addition to being a tool, you are also a moron. You not only thought that... you typed it!

If you don't know what I'm talking about regarding the roster and how Woodson has used it and how the ASG doesn't care... I can't help you.

:lol6: Once again, you have nothing to contribute. So, now you call me a moron for a very common mistake. Regardless..irregardless, who cares ? This is an online board, but hey..I guess you have the need to call me a moron, because it's better than admitting you are clueless. I really don't know what you're talking about regarding the roster, when you said that our roster is full of NBDL players. I'm not sure about Gardner, but the only DL player we've got is J-rich. Even if you were being sarcastic, it still isn't accurate. Once again, another testament to your cluelessness.

See, I don't really like the composition of our roster but we could win a few more games with a competent coach. Just the type we will never have if they own the team. Get it? I'm a fan because I've lived here my whole life and I'm a Homer. What these guys have done is just not competent. We deserve better.

So, which one is it ? Do you like the players or not ? Because you said you really don't like the players, but now it's the composition of the roster. So, no I don't get it. It really sounds like you need to find a more "competent" team, if you don't like the players (oops, I meant the "composition of the roster") or the coach. Quit delving in hypotheticals and come to reality. This roster isn't crap no matter what you compare it to. Only an idiot would go on about "woulda,coulda, shoulda". This roster can win games, and compete with every other team in the Eastern Conference. However, people who know anything about basketball would know this. It just seems that you don't. Hm..so what's the moral of the story ? You are clueless.

Edited August 25, 2008 by EazyRoc

[TroyMcClure]

Tool ? Moron ? :lol6:

So, you couldn't think of a creative way to argue your points so you start namecalling. It makes you sound like the moron. Who says tool anyways ? Man..

And your a basketball genius ? Note that I never said a word about Woodson's competence, but because you have no other way to prove your point you start by calling me a tool and veering off subject. Brilliant. Just f'in brilliant. On top of all of that, Mr. Belkin tried to veto the Johnson trade and actually thought about taking actions that could have resulted in the Hawks losing 5 draft picks. Mr. Belkin is the second coming of jesus, alright.

You once again prove that your post count does nothing to show that you know what you're talking about. By the way, how many teams in the NBA have All stars coming off the bench ? Don't worry..I'll wait.

:lol6: Once again, you have nothing to contribute. So, now you call me a moron for a very common mistake. Regardless..irregardless, who cares ? This is an online board, but hey..I guess you have the need to call me a moron, because it's better than admitting you are clueless. I really don't know what you're talking about regarding the roster, when you said that our roster is full of NBDL players. I'm not sure about Gardner, but the only DL player we've got is J-rich. Even if you were being sarcastic, it still isn't accurate. Once again, another testament to your cluelessness.

So, which one is it ? Do you like the players or not ? Because you said you really don't like the players, but now it's the composition of the roster. So, no I don't get it. It really sounds like you need to find a more "competent" team, if you don't like the players (oops, I meant the "composition of the roster") or the coach. Quit delving in hypotheticals and come to reality. This roster isn't crap no matter what you compare it to. Only an idiot would go on about "woulda,coulda, shoulda". This roster can win games, and compete with every other team in the Eastern Conference. However, people who know anything about basketball would know this. It just seems that you don't. Hm..so what's the moral of the story ? You are clueless.

Dude, you said I was clueless. If you don't think you started the trash?

This is the off season. I know you just got here and you are excited, but we've already talked about all of this in-depth. It's just not worth my time to explain every nuance of the argument. The case against the ASG is overwhelming, imo. Anyone who sides with them is, at best, fooling themselves into thinking that they are doing the right thing as a fan. I'm in a different category. I am a fan of the city first and foremost. The ASG has turned a competent franchise into an incompetent one. Regardless of what you may think I know, I know enough to know that these guys don't have a clue. It's hard to be competitive and advance in the playoffs if all the pieces work in cohesion. We are not even close to that and never will be with this ownership. I don't know how old you are and how long you've been a fan, but the whole point of all of this way back when was to get beyond the 2nd round, not to it.

I know you are a fan just like myself and have a passion for the game. Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking Hawks at midnight. My apologies for offending you.

[EazyRoc]

I know you just got here and you are excited, but we've already talked about all of this in-depth.

As have I, maybe not here at the 'squawk, but I'm not new to Hawks discussion.

It's hard to be competitive and advance in the playoffs if all the pieces work in cohesion. We are not even close to that and never will be with this ownership.

We just made the playoffs with no starters over 30 years old. I just don't see how you could make such a statement, as if it were a certainty. Our star player is only 28, and we've got 2 rising stars who are only 22. We just got a starting-quality PG last year and a starter-quality C in Horford. We are only going to get better from this point on.

I don't know how old you are and how long you've been a fan, but the whole point of all of this way back when was to get beyond the 2nd round, not to it.

I know you are a fan just like myself and have a passion for the game. Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking Hawks at midnight. My apologies for offending you.

This team is capable of making to the Eastern Conference championship, just like any of the top 8 teams in the East. We may not be championship ready, but who's to say we will never get there ? Rick Sund has been making good moves and moving our team in the right direction. Finally, although I appreciate the apology, you really didn't offend me. I apologize if I came off as harsh, accusatory, rude, or have offended you. You're right, though, it's past midnight and I've got to go to work in the morning.

Edited August 25, 2008 by EazyRoc

[BornandDieHawks]

I don't know what you mean by "dime out". I'm in the dark here. But regardless, it's not his team. That's the whole deal. He may have it one day. If that is the case, I'm sure the NBA would reward his attention to the greater good of the league if he informed them of Hawk misdoings. Those picks would surely be restored if Belkin gained control of the team. Again though, Im in the dark about the "diming out".

A review of filings since the case was remanded to the circuit court revealed several new dimensions:

> The first mention in court records, by the non-Belkin owners, of an alleged contributing factor to the feud's 2005 eruption: Belkin "falsely accusing fellow owner Bruce Levenson of player tampering, which resulted in an NBA investigation and which could have resulted in the loss of the Hawks' first-round draft picks for five years."

(Tampering generally refers to recruitment of other teams' players. No further details were provided.)

This is the reference to "diming out" the organization. I am sure all the teams have some illegal tactics they use to improve their team. I am also sure when they do them no one worries about part of the leadership team running to the league office to report it.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedi.../14/spirit.html

[jhay610]

Yeah, say what you will about ASG, but Steve Belkin solidified the speculations that he doesn't care about this team when he brought the tampering charge forward.

That should have been handled in-house; anyone who is willing to dump 5 first round picks down the drain does not give a rats posterior about the franchise. There wasnt even any evidence to back the outlandish claim.

Case closed.

[TroyMcClure]

A review of filings since the case was remanded to the circuit court revealed several new dimensions:

> The first mention in court records, by the non-Belkin owners, of an alleged contributing factor to the feud's 2005 eruption: Belkin "falsely accusing fellow owner Bruce Levenson of player tampering, which resulted in an NBA investigation and which could have resulted in the loss of the Hawks' first-round draft picks for five years."

(Tampering generally refers to recruitment of other teams' players. No further details were provided.)

This is the reference to "diming out" the organization. I am sure all the teams have some illegal tactics they use to improve their team. I am also sure when they do them no one worries about part of the leadership team running to the league office to report it.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/printedi.../14/spirit.html

So you take the ASG's word? Their accusation against Belkin on this point is just that, an accusation. How could anyone just take thier word? That's not very bright.

[Vol4ever]

I think it's also worthy of note that Steve Belkin Bar-B-Ques puppies and is the leader of a coven of male witches who pray to Satan.

Let's get real here folks, there is NO evidence that Belkin would run this team on the "cheap" like ASG does and NO evidence that he would move the team. The whole "cheap" thing came about because BK wanted Joe Johnson. BK made Joe a top level offer (Joe was a RFA)...Joe said he wanted to go...PHX wasn't stupid so they proposed a SnT. The initial deal was Diaw (which Belkin signed off on as Governor)...then it became Diaw + 1st round pick (which Belkin also signed off on)....then it became Diaw + 2 first round picks.

Belkin then realized that his GM was flailing around like a "drunken sailor" and would give away the farm to get JJ. Belkin then put his foot down (as Governor with the most money invested) to stop BK.

There is "cheap" and there is "smart"...and anybody who thinks the ASG isn't "cheap"...I've got a bridge to sell ya...great location....near downtown Manhattan.

Great post!

[TroyMcClure]

So you take the ASG's word? Their accusation against Belkin on this point is just that, an accusation. How could anyone just take thier word? That's not very bright.

For you newbies, let me state that Belkin is a means to a better end in my view. The ASG are hopelessly incompetent in my eyes. At least with Belkin there is the opportunity for change. Personally, I wish the NBA would force the two sides to mutually sell the team. Aside from the Belkin situation, these owners have demonstrated that they are in way over their head. There should be many questions regarding the abilities of this franchise, by the NBA offices.

[Admin]

Aside from the Belkin situation, these owners have demonstrated that they are in way over their head

Really? How so?

[Swish]

For you newbies, let me state that Belkin is a means to a better end in my view. The ASG are hopelessly incompetent in my eyes. At least with Belkin there is the opportunity for change. Personally, I wish the NBA would force the two sides to mutually sell the team. Aside from the Belkin situation, these owners have demonstrated that they are in way over their head. There should be many questions regarding the abilities of this franchise, by the NBA offices.

What exactly is your "better end"?? You really think Steve would be willing to do more than the Spirit?

As we learned with the GM situation, change for the sake of change is not always good. (though Sund may prove better eventually, BK DID get us Al, Acie, Josh, Josh and Joe. A great core.) Changing owners just to change them will head you straight for more mediocrity. Sounds like you would just settle for Belkin instead of hope for a Ted Turner/Arthur Blank type.

[Swatguy]

What exactly is your "better end"?? You really think Steve would be willing to do more than the Spirit?

As we learned with the GM situation, change for the sake of change is not always good. (though Sund may prove better eventually, BK DID get us Al, Acie, Josh, Josh and Joe. A great core.) Changing owners just to change them will head you straight for more mediocrity. Sounds like you would just settle for Belkin instead of hope for a Ted Turner/Arthur Blank type.

Oh not Blank please. He really has no clue.

[Swish]

The point was he is more competent as far as knowing what the fans want etc IMO

[Diesel]

For you newbies, let me state that Belkin is a means to a better end in my view. The ASG are hopelessly incompetent in my eyes. At least with Belkin there is the opportunity for change. Personally, I wish the NBA would force the two sides to mutually sell the team. Aside from the Belkin situation, these owners have demonstrated that they are in way over their head. There should be many questions regarding the abilities of this franchise, by the NBA offices.

You don't change because it's someone new. My god, look at his track-record first.

He wanted to run the team on the cheap. He tried to block the acquisition of JJ (our best player). He would move this team to Las Vegas or St. Louis if given the opportunity. In his other business ventures, he's never cared about the utility of what he was doing, just about the money.

He doesn't care about the Hawks. I guarantee you, he will run this team on the cheap and like Sterling did for many year, he will suck up everything that the owners get in shared earnings and TV contracts. I can guarantee that he will find a way to keep us in the lottery so that we can be a "good young team" but when it's time to pay up, we will quickly trade players. He will make us a farm team.

[TroyMcClure]

You don't change because it's someone new. My god, look at his track-record first.

He wanted to run the team on the cheap. He tried to block the acquisition of JJ (our best player). He would move this team to Las Vegas or St. Louis if given the opportunity. In his other business ventures, he's never cared about the utility of what he was doing, just about the money.

He doesn't care about the Hawks. I guarantee you, he will run this team on the cheap and like Sterling did for many year, he will suck up everything that the owners get in shared earnings and TV contracts. I can guarantee that he will find a way to keep us in the lottery so that we can be a "good young team" but when it's time to pay up, we will quickly trade players. He will make us a farm team.

D, we've been a "farm team" for years. We won 37 games and lost 4 road games by over 80 pts. I'm not overly excited.

For the gazillionth time, there is a lease in place and he can't move the team.

Furthermore, nothing could be worse than this. Don't you realize we have been Sterling like for years? Doesn't the way they handled the Joshes cement that for you? By the way the Clippers have been far more aggressive than the Hawks the last decade or so in player aquisition.

The ASG doesn't have to "find a way" to keep us in the lottery. They are just plain dumb enough to stay there. How is that better exactly?

Do I have to tell you again that I hope Belkin wins and he sells the team? Say he wins and keeps the team, all of the negatives you say he will bring are already here. Hello?!

[Packfill]

Really? How so?

I can think of 5 off the top of my head:

1. They lack the finances to own the organization without Belkin.

2. They hired bad lawyers who allowed them to sign a poorly drafted agreement.

3. They retained BK for as long as they did.

4. They rehired Woody.

5. Executives are leaving the organization and are not being replaced. We need to consider why some of these people are leaving.

[AHF]

I remember hearing that, but I forget is the lease between the Hawks and Philips or Philips and Atlanta? I thought it had to do with Philips Arena being partially paid for by the City.

Just remember to ask Sonics fans how much that lease means when they are watching Kevin Durant play in Oklahoma this year. Once an owner decides to move a team, that is nearly impossible to stop as long as he is willing to cut a check.

[AHF]

My question is just who is the lease with? If the lease is between the Atlanta Hawks and Philips Arena then Belkin could easily break the lease since he would own both entities. I don't think that is what the lease is with though, I think it has to do with City funding for Philips and not a simple Hawks lease from Philips Arena.

You are right on this. In fact, with the same parent owning both Philips and the Hawks there wouldn't even necessarily need to be a lease agreement in place. The operating lease for Philips is an asset of the company giving them rights to operate in the building and certain obligations. I just think that anyone saying "surely Belkin would abide by the lease, it is part of the contract" has to think again in light of what we have already seen him and other owners do.

[Diesel]

D, we've been a "farm team" for years. We won 37 games and lost 4 road games by over 80 pts. I'm not overly excited.

No we haven't. A Farm team doesn't hold on to it's valuable players. We just resigned Smoove. A sign that we're not farming. A farm team also does not acquire quality players. What would you call JJ?

We're not a farm team. We've been a mismanaged team, but farm team... no sir.

If we were a farm team, we'd be worse than we are now... and that's what Belkin wanted. He didn't want us to get JJ. He wanted us to struggle it out with Smoove and Chillz. Just imagine life without JJ and Smoove... That's the farm team that Belkin would have made us.

[Diesel]

I remember hearing that, but I forget is the lease between the Hawks and Philips or Philips and Atlanta? I thought it had to do with Philips Arena being partially paid for by the City.

The lease was between the Phil and Atlanta. Whoever, owns the Phil, must keep the Hawks in Atlanta was my understanding.

McDavid was trying to separate the two. He was definitely going to move this franchise and still hold ownership to the Arena (or sell it).