We have closet Smith haters here!

[Peoriabird]

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I am not a Smith hater I just don't think the team with Chills and Smith back will be assembled to do much in the future the way it is setup now.

Watching the Hawk's vs the Celtics it was clear the Hawk's got continually pounded on the boards even with Smoove. Who is going to get those rebounds in the future? There won't be any big men come the Hawk's way unless they trade for one. They'll draft to low and free agents won't sign with the Hawk's. It takes a compelte team to play with the elite teams consistently not just one series like the Hawk's did vs the Celtic's.

Smoove can't guard Garnett or any real big players.

He'll get better but still when you have to face the Rasheed Wallace's and Garnett's and the big players in the East how is Smoove going to contain them? This is the reason I am saying small boy isn't going to get you to the ultimate goal of winning championships. Now if you could package Marvin and some others and keep Smoove great but Smoove probably has the most value to other teams other than JJ.

People knock Kaman because he has one good year what if he is the real deal alot of you Kaman haters are going to wish you had got him when you had the chance. Then again if I am the Clippers why would I get rid of a 7 ft center scoring almost 16 pts a game,2.7 blks,12.7 rebounds and pair him with Camby to give matchup problems to the elite teams in the West.

There you go. This is a poster that admits that he wants Smith traded. But he cleverly embedded questionable statements to make it seem that his trade proposal was based on bettering the team.

[mrhonline]

Smith had several periods of serious ineptitude this year. Those can't be ignored, unless, of course, you are a Smith HOMER.

(See how silly this thread is, Peoria).

[Peoriabird]

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Smith had several periods of serious ineptitude this year. Those can't be ignored, unless, of course, you are a Smith HOMER.

(See how silly this thread is, Peoria).

No one is saying he didn't and you have every right to not like him. But just admit it! But to color it with none sense like the reason why i want Smith traded is because we rebounded poorly against the Celtic is a deception. If you check the stats, we were the second best rebounding team against the Celtics in the playoffs. And i know that you all love Gasol but the Lakers were out rebounded by the C's by an average of 6 rpg. Or Smith could not check Garnett, when Smith held him below his seasonal average in the playoffs.

[hawkman]

Peoria, you're right. The longer this thread goes on, the more credible your original post becomes. You have posters coming out of the woodwork trying to explain why a S-N-T should still be done even though the competition for Smith's services have dried up, driving his market price down. My only hope is that no ill feelings among the fans carry over into the regular season if we re-sign Josh. We don't need anymore agendas than we already have around here. I'll just be glad if we can re-sign all of our guys(plus Kwame and Morris) and hit the ground running come next season. A strong start will make all of this debating seem pointless.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Our starting frontcourt actually does fine in defensive rebounding, by rebound rate (% of defensive rebounds collected), Smith is a better than avg. D rebounder for a PF and Al is a better than avg. D rebounder for a C. The problem is that our backup big men (post trade) were Zaza and Marv who are near the bottom in terms of D rebounding for PFs and Cs resepectively. Also, Childress plays 30 minutes a night and is bottom 5 in terms of defensive rebounding for SFs and top 5 for offensive rebounding which is a big reason why we are a great offensive rebounding team and poor defensive one.

This is all true.

What you left out, was thar Smith is one of the worst offensive rebounding starting PFs in the game. Why? Because he loves to hang out on the perimeter. With his athleticism, he could easily be a 10 - 12 rpg guy. Easily. But because he's on the outside all the time, and rarely crashes the boards unless he's already in the paint, his rebounding fluctuates wildly depending on the strength of our opponent's frontline. The same goes for Marvin.

That's why the bigger frontlines seem to bully us around a bit. Those two guys have to get tougher and become scrappers, like Horford.

Quick . . . when is the last time you've seen Smith catch a rebound off the rim in mid air, and slam it back home? Not that he has to do this, but I've NEVER seen him do that. Ever. But even Nate Robinson has pulled this off. ( His dunk in his rookie year @ summer league was amazing ). It's rare to see an elite level athlete like Smith not pull off something like that. But when he's 23 feet away from the goal, you see why.

If we're going to continue to play Horford at the 5, Smith can't keep playing like a Rasheed Wallace/Rashard Lewis hybrid. He has to get tougher, much tougher. Play like a Shawn Kemp or a Shawn Marion.

That's why that Boston series was so beneficial for these young guys. They now have an idea of the level they need to play at on a nightly basis.

[Peoriabird]

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The problem I have with the Hawk's is how do you outrebound bigger teams? We got killed vs the Celtics how would you outrebound the teams from the West?

Smoove gets 7 boards a game who is going to take up the slack of being outrebounded in the front court. If you can't out rebound the other team your chances are minimal your going to win.

You do realize that the hawks were 10 in the league in rebounding after that horrible start to the season right? You do also realize that the celtics out rebounded us by 1.1 rpg during the playoffs right? Second only to Cleveland who got out rebounded by .6 rpg right? If you do know this then the only other reason that i can think of that would make the above post is to deceive people into thinking that you have the team's best interest at heart when you propose trades to get Smith off the team.

[mrhonline]

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No one is saying he didn't and you have every right to not like him.

Now you're backtracking again.

Posters who have reasonable doubts about paying Smith MAJOR money when he is still very inconsistent are somehow "HATERS." But yet, they also have "every right to not like him." That makes no sense.

Yours is a problem of seeing only two extremes. There's plenty of room in the middle which your original post completely ignores. It's an untenable position.

This site has certainly always had its extremists and idiosyncratic posters, but your thread is giving the impression that having reasonable doubts about Smith's ability to justify a huge contract is somehow a bad thing. It's not.

And I also point you to the 'visible' relief of the majority of the board when they realized that Smith was no longer going to command the $80M that Philly easily could have offered. It was like Christmas around here. {It happened again yesterday to a lesser degree with the Camby trade}.

Now, Marvin Williams is another matter altogether.

[Peoriabird]

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Now you're backtracking again.

Posters who have reasonable doubts about paying Smith MAJOR money when he is still very inconsistent are somehow "HATERS." But yet, they also have "every right to not like him." That makes no sense.

Re-read the original post and the thread title for that matter. It said Closet haters. Those guys that start their post of with I'm not a true josh Smith hater but he hurt the team with and you fill in the blank with what ever false statement you want. The classic example is above when the poster said we got murdered on the boards in the playoffs. When in reality, LA and Detroit got murdered on the boards in the playoffs against the Celtics. We were very respectable against the C's. If he would just come out and said that I don't like Smith's game, I would be fine with that! But he chooses to hide his dislike by making statements that are not true.

[crimedog]

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Our starting frontcourt actually does fine in defensive rebounding, by rebound rate (% of defensive rebounds collected), Smith is a better than avg. D rebounder for a PF and Al is a better than avg. D rebounder for a C. The problem is that our backup big men (post trade) were Zaza and Marv who are near the bottom in terms of D rebounding for PFs and Cs resepectively. Also, Childress plays 30 minutes a night and is bottom 5 in terms of defensive rebounding for SFs and top 5 for offensive rebounding which is a big reason why we are a great offensive rebounding team and poor defensive one.

This is all true.

What you left out, was thar Smith is one of the worst offensive rebounding starting PFs in the game. Why? Because he loves to hang out on the perimeter. With his athleticism, he could easily be a 10 - 12 rpg guy. Easily. But because he's on the outside all the time, and rarely crashes the boards unless he's already in the paint, his rebounding fluctuates wildly depending on the strength of our opponent's frontline. The same goes for Marvin.

That's why the bigger frontlines seem to bully us around a bit. Those two guys have to get tougher and become scrappers, like Horford.

Quick . . . when is the last time you've seen Smith catch a rebound off the rim in mid air, and slam it back home? Not that he has to do this, but I've NEVER seen him do that. Ever. But even Nate Robinson has pulled this off. ( His dunk in his rookie year @ summer league was amazing ). It's rare to see an elite level athlete like Smith not pull off something like that. But when he's 23 feet away from the goal, you see why.

If we're going to continue to play Horford at the 5, Smith can't keep playing like a Rasheed Wallace/Rashard Lewis hybrid. He has to get tougher, much tougher. Play like a Shawn Kemp or a Shawn Marion.

That's why that Boston series was so beneficial for these young guys. They now have an idea of the level they need to play at on a nightly basis.

I don't know if Smith has trouble against good rebounding teams, he had huge rebounding games against Orlando and Houston and both are top 10 rebounding teams in the league.

With regards to Smith not being an offensive rebounder, listen to the facts and tell me where I'm wrong - the Hawks are a very good offensive rebounding team, Josh Childress is one of the better offensive rebounders for his position in the game (top 5) and that is because he is set up inside in the half court set, we can't have 3 players crowded around the basket so for the 15-25 minutes of overlap, Smith plays outside because unlike Chil and Horford, he can slash to the basket. Obviously if Smith's offensive rebounding was a problem we wouldn't be an excellent offensive rebounding team, right?

The above is also why I think we'd be best SnTing Childress, as good as he is, he doesn't really fit our team (our fg% actually goes down with him in the game).

[thescout5]

What the he#$ll Peoriabird you don't speak for me saying this is a poster that clearly wants Smith traded give me a break. CAN YOU READ I mentioned if there was another way to get a big perhaps trading Marvin and something after year that may be the way to go.

"There you go. This is a poster that admits that he wants Smith traded. But he cleverly embedded questionable statements to make it seem that his trade proposal was based on bettering the team."

Are you inspector Kluso ,Encyclopedia Brown ? Please read the whole post before you make accussations. I know if the Hawk's are a 500 team after next year I'll be calling you out wanting the team to remain the same. I guess some fans are happy with mediocrity.This team has the potential to get better however the rest of the East is better and it has the potential to be mediocre.

[thescout5]

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The problem I have with the Hawk's is how do you outrebound bigger teams? We got killed vs the Celtics how would you outrebound the teams from the West?

Smoove gets 7 boards a game who is going to take up the slack of being outrebounded in the front court. If you can't out rebound the other team your chances are minimal your going to win.

You do realize that the hawks were 10 in the league in rebounding after that horrible start to the season right? You do also realize that the celtics out rebounded us by 1.1 rpg during the playoffs right? Second only to Cleveland who got out rebounded by .6 rpg right? If you do know this then the only other reason that i can think of that would make the above post is to deceive people into thinking that you have the team's best interest

at heart when you propose trades to get Smith off the team.

Could have fooled me Boston dismantled the Hawk's when it counted!

[Chris18]

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The problem I have with the Hawk's is how do you outrebound bigger teams? We got killed vs the Celtics how would you outrebound the teams from the West?

Smoove gets 7 boards a game who is going to take up the slack of being outrebounded in the front court. If you can't out rebound the other team your chances are minimal your going to win.

You do realize that the hawks were 10 in the league in rebounding after that horrible start to the season right? You do also realize that the celtics out rebounded us by 1.1 rpg during the playoffs right? Second only to Cleveland who got out rebounded by .6 rpg right? If you do know this then the only other reason that i can think of that would make the above post is to deceive people into thinking that you have the team's best interest

at heart when you propose trades to get Smith off the team.

Could have fooled me Boston dismantled the Hawk's when it counted!

The Lakers got beat worse in a bigger game than we did but you don't hear them wanting to trade their young players.

[BossTweed]

Does it make me a Smith Hater if I don't think he is worth more than about 12 million a year tops and I would rather get someone with a good contract in return that fits a need rather than pay him the max?

[EazyRoc]

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Our starting frontcourt actually does fine in defensive rebounding, by rebound rate (% of defensive rebounds collected), Smith is a better than avg. D rebounder for a PF and Al is a better than avg. D rebounder for a C. The problem is that our backup big men (post trade) were Zaza and Marv who are near the bottom in terms of D rebounding for PFs and Cs resepectively. Also, Childress plays 30 minutes a night and is bottom 5 in terms of defensive rebounding for SFs and top 5 for offensive rebounding which is a big reason why we are a great offensive rebounding team and poor defensive one.

This is all true.

What you left out, was thar Smith is one of the worst offensive rebounding starting PFs in the game. Why? Because he loves to hang out on the perimeter. With his athleticism, he could easily be a 10 - 12 rpg guy. Easily. But because he's on the outside all the time, and rarely crashes the boards unless he's already in the paint, his rebounding fluctuates wildly depending on the strength of our opponent's frontline. The same goes for Marvin.

That's why the bigger frontlines seem to bully us around a bit. Those two guys have to get tougher and become scrappers, like Horford.

Quick . . . when is the last time you've seen Smith catch a rebound off the rim in mid air, and slam it back home? Not that he has to do this, but I've NEVER seen him do that. Ever. But even Nate Robinson has pulled this off. ( His dunk in his rookie year @ summer league was amazing ). It's rare to see an elite level athlete like Smith not pull off something like that. But when he's 23 feet away from the goal, you see why.

If we're going to continue to play Horford at the 5, Smith can't keep playing like a Rasheed Wallace/Rashard Lewis hybrid. He has to get tougher, much tougher. Play like a Shawn Kemp or a Shawn Marion.

That's why that Boston series was so beneficial for these young guys. They now have an idea of the level they need to play at on a nightly basis.

Never, because Josh Smith doesn't crash the offensive boards. Another thing, too. People say we were one of the better defensive rebounding teams in the league, but I'm pretty sure we were also one of the top teams in the league when it came to giving up offensive rebounds. Stat check, anyone ?

[Seano]

Wow. The whole premise of this thread is just ridiculous. 'Closet Smith haters', LOL. Why would anyone feel the need to be 'closeted' with their opinions on a freaking internet message board? I mean think about it.....

Beyond that, I think you need to just calm down and get over yourself and realize that this IS an internet message board, so in that regard it's supposed to be all about the free-flowing exchange of information, opinion and ideas. Like Dolfan, I would estimate the number of fans who actually *want* Smith to be gone is probably something like one percent. However if someone does want him gone, then that's their right isn't it? Doesn't everyone have the right to their own opinion? And honestly, who cares? Does it make one iota of difference either way?

Sheesh....

[Zone034life]

I disagree with you and anyone else who says this thread is meaningless. A mans opinion is a mans opinion but some of these men are not standing up for what they really believe in. If you read this thread it is clear a poster like NJHAWK has a problem coming out and saying how he really feels about Smoove.

Many posters are making blanket statements instead of coming out and saying they aren't in favor of bringing Smoove back. I would question Coach X,NJHAWK and AnakinJoe if they really want Smoove on this team going forward.

Whats funny is when Deisel,myself or anyone else wants to trade Marvin we may be called haters or bashers. The difference is you know me and others don't like Marvins game because we don't cover it up.

If I was to say that I want to sign Marvin to an extension but if he continues to slack off in the offseason or doesn't show more passion on the floor we should sign and trade him. Do you see the blanket statement in that sentence? I would never make a comment like this because i'm not in favor of resigning MW because I don't see the potential on the floor many others do. Some people are set on:

Horford being the 4 and Smoove not being able to play the three so we should trade him

Smoove makes to many mistakes and will never improve on his TO's

Smoove needs to be replaced with a C in the line up so we can have a "normal" lineup

Smoove will somehow demand a salary over 12mil even though no one will offer him this amount

Smoove is hindering MW growth on the offensive end

Smooves on ball defense and rebounding makes him a liability on the floor

Smooves attitude is horrible and he may be uncoachable

Smoove isn't saying he wants to be here only his dad has in a phone call to Sekou

All of these questions have been raised by fans on this board at some point or another. Some fans think Smoove will improve on some of these areas(me and most of Squawk) but there are some who hope Smoove will but do not believe he will and don't feel like he is worth a big extension.

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However if someone does want him gone, then that's their right isn't it? Doesn't everyone have the right to their own opinion?

You are exactly right sir. But some of these posters won't man up and admit they would rather have Smoove traded. They would rather dance around it and blend in with the rest of the board.

[Traceman]

him? Please! Smoove DOES turn the ball over too much. He DOES shoot too many 3's. He DOES make too many boneheaded plays. He IS smaller than most PFs. His attitude HAS been questionable at times. And I want to keep him. How about that!

[Zone034life]

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Some fans think Smoove will improve on some of these areas(me and most of Squawk) but there are some who hope Smoove will but do not believe he will and don't feel like he is worth a big extension.

I know he needs to improve as I stated in this line of my post.