I think Smoove wants out

[AnakinJoe]

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Wasn't referring to you but read NJ,AnakinJoe,JackB1 and Coachx's post. They are proving in multiple threads they don't think Smoove wants to come back or they don't want him back.

I want him back at about $12M per year. Anything above that and I'm likely negotiating a S & T. I just can't be convinced to pay a premium for this guy, but by no means would I just kick him off the team. I have NEVER suggested trading him for peanuts (like Denver did with Camby). But I am in no way shape or form in the "whatever it takes" camp. I think that is utter nonsense for a player who hasn't yet seen a .500 season.

It seems there are only 2 camps... "whatever it takes" or "hater". Heaven forbid we have a more rational category in the middle... "keep him within reason". And for me, reason is $12M annually (which NO ONE should consider insulting).

[Traceman]

Seriously, I think that Smoove's agents are floating this "he doesn't want to play for Woody" angle out there in hopes that it will convince teams to offer S&T proposals to the Hawks. At this point, a S&T is the only way Smoove can possibly get the money he is looking for because the Hawks aren't just going to pay him big money when they KNOW they don't have to.

His agents want to be able to say "see, the Knicks will pay Smoove the max, you are lowballing him." His problem is that Sund can just say "so what, he Knicks have nothing I want." Smoove has VERY little leverage because his QO is so low relative to the money he is looking for. The Hawks don't have to sign and trade him and I'm sure they have already made him an offer that he considers WAY to low.

[Diesel]

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Seriously, I think that Smoove's agents are floating this "he doesn't want to play for Woody" angle out there in hopes that it will convince teams to offer S&T proposals to the Hawks. At this point, a S&T is the only way Smoove can possibly get the money he is looking for because the Hawks aren't just going to pay him big money when they KNOW they don't have to.

His agents want to be able to say "see, the Knicks will pay Smoove the max, you are lowballing him." His problem is that Sund can just say "so what, he Knicks have nothing I want." Smoove has VERY little leverage because his QO is so low relative to the money he is looking for. The Hawks don't have to sign and trade him and I'm sure they have already made him an offer that he considers WAY to low.

This is what I see too.

It's the same thing Raymond Brothers did with JT. Except Brothers got JT to go on a Utah Radio station and talk about how dead it is to play in the OMNI and how he would like to play for real fans of Utah.. blah blah blah. At the time, i think we were still owned by AOL. They didn't care. It was business just to resign him and look for a trade later. The same will end up being true of Smoove. He may stir up some team to jump (Memphis) but at this point, the amounts that can be offered (barring trade and buyouts) favor the ASG. So he's best to have that public rumor and private understanding.

[crimedog]

I still think that the best alternative for both sides is for ASG & Co. to play nice. They have more to lose than if Smith wants out because they refuse to go above 5/50 than people realize.

They already have a reputation as bungling, no need to add to it by having one of your best and most recognized players saying that he doesn't even want to play in his hometown because the organization is garbage.

I'd like to know what is going on because if the Group is willing to offer something in the 5/60 range, I don't see why Smith's people would go ape-***.

[coachx]

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I still think that the best alternative for both sides is for ASG & Co. to play nice. They have more to lose than if Smith wants out because they refuse to go above 5/50 than people realize.

They already have a reputation as bungling, no need to add to it by having one of your best and most recognized players saying that he doesn't even want to play in his hometown because the organization is garbage.

I'd like to know what is going on because if the Group is willing to offer something in the 5/60 range, I don't see why Smith's people would go ape-***.

I agree. A 5 year $50 mill deal would insult Smoove a bit.

A 5 year $60 mill deal sounds just about right ! With some lucrative incentives based on production on top of the base salary would be a good idea for good will and for motivation. It is however important to make those incentives based on team goals and not just personal stats. If we give him a bonus for scoring points, for instance, it could lead to trouble with selfish play. I believe in bonuses for team goals (as the Bucks did with Bogut). The ONLY personal goal I would give him a LARGE bonus for is if he ever won Defensive Player of The Year he should get a substantial bonus (maybe a bonus for 10 RPG too). Those are bonus that would motivate him for the better unlike a scoring bonus.

I presume Smoove's agents were telling him he would get a $70 mill offer FOR SURE from the 76ers or Clippers. Now all he can hope for is $60 mill guaranteed with incentives I would imagine. Maybe $65 mill guaranteed if Sund and the ASG want to be nicer then they have to be.

Why doesn't Smoove fire his agents ? All there good for at this point is to play the sign trade game as way to up the anti but I doubt it works unless Sund truely believes Smoove would take the qualifying offer to play one year and then be unrestricted (which I do not buy for a second). With their commisions cut out of the equation he would come out smelling like a rose. (I know in reality this is too risky for a 22 year old with no education. Its much different then Gilbert Areans or Alex Rodriguez doing it b/c they have at least been through the FA process before. However, if Smoove hires the right lawyer to proof the contract he should be safe............not to mention Smoove could blame the rumors on his recently fired agents and play the "good guy" while calling them unfounded rumors started by his no longer employed agents (who are merely former AAU coaches and not business men any way.)

Edit below since I gave wrong info:

http://hoopshype.com/agents/brian_dyke.htm

Brian Dyke is the agent with a expierence. He took advantage of the Nuggets way back with Kenyon Martin. This guy is a Scott Boras want to be. He scares me !

Wallace Prather is his other agent which I believe was Smoove's AAU coach. He is the guy with no expierence and is getting a free ride on Smoove's coat tails.

[DrReality]

The longer it goes the more teams will be calling. It's like not being to eager to buy a car. Let the seller sweat a little to see if they make a better deal. There are teams out there that have interest and will make the call.

[Swish]

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The vast majority of casual fans in the city LOVE Smith, to most fans he is the face of the franchise.

Outside of Atlanta he is as well known, if not moreso, than Joe.

That's not true AT ALL. We're not on TV enough for people to know who Smith is over JJ. Smith is still living off of the slam dunk contest notierity. But you forget that JJ played on a pretty good Phoenix team 4 years ago, and got plenty of exposure then.

Shoot, Boris Diaw is more well known than Smoove.

And if you really want to get real with it, Mike Bibby is probably the "national face of the franchise" right now. When the NBA were doing those split-faced commercials during the playoffs, which Hawk did they use?

They didn't use Smith . . or JJ . . they used Bibby.

Just cause they used Bibby doesn't mean he is the face of the franchise. He is a nationally recognized player but JJ/JS are the faces.

[Zone034life]

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Your right I am assuming and specualting as we all are until Smith speaks for himslef but I refute the fact that I have an agenda against Smoove simply b/c I do not discount the multitudes of media reports. There are no facts just a bunch of media reports from unamed sources. If the reports are not coming from Smith or his camp of rookie agents then where would they come from ? All we can do is specualte of what could be happening behind the scenes.

Thats the difference between me and you. I'm going by facts and you like to speculate and assume. In your previous posts in multiple threads you weren't speaking of these media reports as if they were speculation. You spoke as if they were facts you believed to be true. Now you are saying that you are trying to see this from all angles. No you aren't. You have found the angle you like and are sticking to it. Don't try to act as if you were or have being fair about this situation because you have not been. You have repeatedly blamed Smoove for not doing what any other free agent player does not(except maybe T.O).

I would rather Smoove not speak out and let his agent handle this because he knows nothing about the process.

You call NJ a visionary. The same guy who said Philly would steal all our players. The guy has more posts about non factsand speculation than you. I can see why you might back up the guy.

Why would you side with the national media and not your hometown reporter, the players father and to top it off Smoove never said he didn't want to play for Woody?

[Peoriabird]

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Thats the difference between me and you. I'm going by facts and you like to speculate and assume. In your previous posts in multiple threads you weren't speaking of these media reports as if they were speculation. You spoke as if they were facts you believed to be true. Now you are saying that you are trying to see this from all angles. No you aren't. You have found the angle you like and are sticking to it. Don't try to act as if you were or have being fair about this situation because you have not been. You have repeatedly blamed Smoove for not doing what any other free agent player does not(except maybe T.O).

I would rather Smoove not speak out and let his agent handle this because he knows nothing about the process.

You call NJ a visionary. The same guy who said Philly would steal all our players. The guy has more posts about non factsand speculation than you. I can see why you might back up the guy.

Why would you side with the national media and not your hometown reporter, the players father and to top it off Smoove never said he didn't want to play for Woody?

I wasn't sure before but I think that he is a CSH. Has all of the symptoms! Pretends to want Smith on the team but finds a reason to sign and trade him.

[coachx]

I guess you and Zone don't realize that one can discuss a topic without actually wanting it to happen.

If a person talks about the possibility of a "World War III" b/c they see stuff on the news about Iran wanting to nuke Israel and others....Does that mean they want it to happen ?

If a person talks about the possibility of rain when their at the beach....Does that mean they want it to rain ?

If person sees a special on Discovery where scientist specualte on what a "BIG" earthquake could do to California by making L.A. totally submerged into the sea....Does that mean they want that to actually happen ?

You guys are trying to simply make personal attacks on people who choose to discuss a topic. I don't come on here to attack posters or get angry. I just come on to talk about the latest Hawks news. Well, the latest news yesterday was the rumors moving over to ESPN's Sportscenter. It was the topic of the day and just b/c one chose to talk about it does not mean they want it to be true. Get over it.

[Peoriabird]

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I guess you and Zone don't realize that one can discuss a topic without actually wanting it to happen.

If you discuss both sides of an issue objectively then no one would be suspicious. But if you dwell on one side of an issue like you have even though there is refuting evidence to the contrary, the index of suspicion of a possible agenda goes way up.

[coachx]

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I guess you and Zone don't realize that one can discuss a topic without actually wanting it to happen.

If you discuss both sides of an issue objectively then no one would be suspicious. But if you dwell on one side of an issue like you have even though there is refuting evidence to the contrary, the index of suspicion of a possible agenda goes way up.

We discuss the future as if Smith is already a part of it daily. I think both sides are more then covered.

[Traceman]

for the ASG to play nice, particularly when they are dealing from a position of strength. Image is not a compelling enough reason for them to jump out there and pay more than they have to for Smoove. As long as none of the other RFAs out there are signing deals with their respective teams, I don't think the ASG has anything to lose by not raising their offer to Smoove. If Okafor, Deng, Iggy or the like sign though, the pressure might start to ratchet up a bit.

I hope they can come to a compromise that leaves both sides happy but that will still allow us to resign Chillz plus add at least one big and hopefully a shooter. To me, that means that they get something done in the 5 yr/$54M -$57M range with a player option after year 3. At any rate, I don't expect anything to get done any time soon. I remember how long the JT situation drug out and I think this one will be just as long, if not longer.

[crimedog]

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for the ASG to play nice, particularly when they are dealing from a position of strength. Image is not a compelling enough reason for them to jump out there and pay more than they have to for Smoove. As long as none of the other RFAs out there are signing deals with their respective teams, I don't think the ASG has anything to lose by not raising their offer to Smoove. If Okafor, Deng, Iggy or the like sign though, the pressure might start to ratchet up a bit.

I hope they can come to a compromise that leaves both sides happy but that will still allow us to resign Chillz plus add at least one big and hopefully a shooter. To me, that means that they get something done in the 5 yr/$54M -$57M range with a player option after year 3. At any rate, I don't expect anything to get done any time soon. I remember how long the JT situation drug out and I think this one will be just as long, if not longer.

I think Smith will end up with +5/60 if he stays with the Hawks, which is fine. I'd prefer not to go into the 5/70 range though.

[Traceman]

5/50 is ideal for me. 5/55 is great. I'm cool with 5/60. I wouldn't WANT to go any higher than that but as I said before, if MEM all of a sudden jumps in the picture, I reluctantly would likely match any offer he got.

[Peoriabird]

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5/50 is ideal for me. 5/55 is great. I'm cool with 5/60. I wouldn't WANT to go any higher than that but as I said before, if MEM all of a sudden jumps in the picture, I reluctantly would likely match any offer he got.

And the point that you have been making is that the ASG doesn't have to go above 5/50

[Traceman]

I don't see why they would jump out there and offer him much, if any, more than that as things stand now. If one of the other RFAs gets a deal SIGNIFICANTLY bigger than 5/50, that might change things but until that happens I don't blame the team for playing this the way they are.

[crimedog]

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I don't see why they would jump out there and offer him much, if any, more than that as things stand now. If one of the other RFAs gets a deal SIGNIFICANTLY bigger than 5/50, that might change things but until that happens I don't blame the team for playing this the way they are.

Well that could very well be their strategy and it could very well backfire on them. I understand that we had to overpay for Joe because he was RFA but just because you got a guy in a good position doesn't mean you should lowball him. ASG already has a reputation of being cheap and incompentent. This is their first big test on how they deal with their players and if they fail it they are in trouble. Don't forget, Joe Johnson has been calling out management in the press for a long time now.

[Peoriabird]

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ASG already has a reputation of being cheap

And I thought that the league criticized ASG for giving Joe his contract. They even offered to over pay Dampier and Kenyon Martin. Oh we, I guess its just me that noticed.

[crimedog]

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ASG already has a reputation of being cheap

And I thought that the league criticized ASG for giving Joe his contract. They even offered to over pay Dampier and Kenyon Martin. Oh we, I guess its just me that noticed.

Doesn't mean they are cheap. I didn't say they were cheap. Inept, no doubt, but I don't think they are cheap.

On the other hand, Chad Ford and Mark Stein have been writing that the easiest RFAs to pluck away would be Smith and Chil. Why? Because ASG might not want to pay for their players.