History is repeating itself

[Johnnybravo4]

The situation with the Joshes underscores a mistake that a lot of GM have made recently. Management cannot overplay its hand when it comes to restricted free agents or players close to free agency. Consider:

Joe Johnson and Phoenix

Boozer and Cleveland

Brand and Clippers

Sacramento and Artest

Joshes and Hawks

Everyone of those cases probably could have been turned out better for the original team if it had only offered decent contract extensions the summer before. Instead, each GM tried to take advantage of the market to save a few bucks. What GM's and owners must realize is that the NBA is a player driven league. You cannot run player negotiations as if they were middle management at IBM. Players have leverage that simple economics can't quantify and that is fan loyalty. If Josh Smith leaves and becomes an all-star as a Maverick, he will take fans with him. The fans that remain will blame mgmt for the loss and won't show up to games. In todays NBA market, sometimes you have to take a short term economic hit for a long term gain. Contracts aren't just for 1 year, they are for multi years. You pay Smoove 12 million a year not just for what you know he is in 2008, but for what he will be in 2010. Hell we gave JJ a 70 million contract after he avg 16ppg in Phoenix. He now avgs 25ppg 3 years later.

If the ASG can't see that then they need to break up the team and start over.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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The situation with the Joshes underscores a mistake that a lot of GM have made recently. Management cannot overplay its hand when it comes to restricted free agents or players close to free agency. Consider:

Joe Johnson and Phoenix

Boozer and Cleveland

Brand and Clippers

Sacramento and Artest

Joshes and Hawks

Everyone of those cases probably could have been turned out better for the original team if it had only offered decent contract extensions the summer before. Instead, each GM tried to take advantage of the market to save a few bucks. What GM's and owners must realize is that the NBA is a player driven league. You cannot run player negotiations as if they were middle management at IBM. Players have leverage that simple economics can't quantify and that is fan loyalty. If Josh Smith leaves and becomes an all-star as a Maverick, he will take fans with him. The fans that remain will blame mgmt for the loss and won't show up to games. In todays NBA market, sometimes you have to take a short term economic hit for a long term gain. Contracts aren't just for 1 year, they are for multi years. You pay Smoove 12 million a year not just for what you know he is in 2008, but for what he will be in 2010. Hell we gave JJ a 70 million contract after he avg 16ppg in Phoenix. He now avgs 25ppg 3 years later.

If the ASG can't see that then they need to break up the team and start over.

It cuts both ways though JB. That same Phoenix team that let JJ get away, grossly overpaid for Diaw. Why? Because they didn't want to lose an "important" player.

Utah has AK47, who is grossly overpaid partially because they have a guy in Boozer who is much better than him. Utah has to now assess the value of both Boozer and Okur, while paying Deron. The giant sore of a contract on that team, is Kirilenko's contract.

NY has terrible contract situations all over the place because they grossly overpaid for everybody.

Cuttino Mobley will make 9 MILLION DOLLARS next year.

Troy Murphy, I think, will make 11 million.

Adonyl Foyle once made 9 million a year.

Tim Thomas once was making 11 million.

Diop is making the full MLE, just to take up space in the middle.

When does it stop?

In Josh Smith's situation, you can definitely make a case for him making top dollar. And you can easily argue against it. The thing with Smith, is that it's his defense that will win games for you and not necessarily his offense. So the Hawks have to put a value on him.

Last year, there's no way in hell you give him a deal like Bogut got this year, just to keep him out of the marketplace. The same goes for Deng. Gordon, now he had a pretty good offensive year in 06 - 07, so a case could be made for him getting paid. But then again, the Bulls knew he was pretty much an undersized SG that may be more of a detriment, than he is an asset at times.

But look at all of the RFAs that haven't signed deals. As much as fans want to blame the ownership, it's these agens and players who are holding out for top dollar. And the top level guys like Smith, Okafor, Ellis, Biendrins, and Deng, all probably want a Bogut-like contract.

Question is . . . do you pay them, or do you wait them out? If they're all willing to turn down 10+ million dollar a year deals, I say you wait them out.

With Chill, if the reports are true, we were just unfortunate that some FIBA team goes crazy to obtain Chill. No one in the NBA was about to do that.

[Diesel]

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t cuts both ways though JB. That same Phoenix team that let JJ get away, grossly overpaid for Diaw. Why? Because they didn't want to lose an "important" player.

Utah has AK47, who is grossly overpaid partially because they have a guy in Boozer who is much better than him. Utah has to now assess the value of both Boozer and Okur, while paying Deron. The giant sore of a contract on that team, is Kirilenko's contract.

NY has terrible contract situations all over the place because they grossly overpaid for everybody.

Cuttino Mobley will make 9 MILLION DOLLARS next year.

Troy Murphy, I think, will make 11 million.

Adonyl Foyle once made 9 million a year.

Tim Thomas once was making 11 million.

Diop is making the full MLE, just to take up space in the middle.

When does it stop?

You have to decide what impact a player has on the team's success and fanbase. None of those guys were the face of their franchise, but guys like Brand and Smooove are.

[Peoriabird]

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You have to decide what impact a player has on the team's success and fanbase. None of those guys were the face of their franchise, but guys like Brand and Smooove are.

And then when the team loses because they can't sign other players after the money is used up, the GM/Owners get blamed again by the fans. Fans want their cake and eat it to!

[DrReality]

The Falcons got caught offguard when Pat Kearny left for Seattle. Not sure it was the same issue with salary, but at that time the franshise was farting around and he didn't want any part of it. We lost out all the way around.

[Swatguy]

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With Chill, if the reports are true, we were just unfortunate that some FIBA team goes crazy to obtain Chill. No one in the NBA was about to do that.

With Chillz's effort, age and talents, it is not much of a reach to overpay him. You can not imagine him "shortchanging" the team. He has not gotten to his prime(3-4 years away) and is a fan favorite not only in Atlanta but much of the league and globally. The guy has ambassadored all over the globe.

5 years 40mil. w/player option.

[Gray Mule]

"The rumor of my demise was greatly exagerated." Mark Twain

"Tht rumor of my already having signed was greatly exagerated." Josh Childress

There is a figure that says, "If any team has a payroll greater than $$$$, then they must

pay into the league, dollar for dollar, any amount over this luxury tax."

Ask almost every player in the NBA, and especially their agents, how much do you want

to be paid each season? The answer, all of the money. And, while you're at it, I want

to be surrounded by great players and win the championship.

Imagine the payroll as a huge pie. It must be cut into 15 slices. Some big slices.

Some small slices. There is a limit on how small the slices may be, minimum NBA

salary. Players down at the end of the bench get the smaller slices of the pie.

Now, the question is, who gets the bigger slices and how big do we make them?

The bigger the slice for one player, the smaller the amount there is left for everyone

else. Players and agents want the biggest slice possible and management wants

to limit the size of each slice as much as possible.

How much is too much? How much is too small?

If Childress takes his game overseas, someone else gets his slice. Who? How much?

We still hope we keep all our players. We want them here and we want them here

happy to be a part of the Hawks team. We want to take that huge step to the next

level. We want to be one of the teams going for the NBA championship, not just

estatic to make it into the playoffs.

[Johnnybravo4]

Now our chickens have come home to roost. In our zeal not to "overpay" our free agents we are in a situation where we will have to grossly overpay some FA stiff to save face. I can't wait until next summer. We will end up haggling with Marvin and lose him as well.

[Joker]

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The situation with the Joshes underscores a mistake that a lot of GM have made recently. Management cannot overplay its hand when it comes to restricted free agents or players close to free agency. Consider:

Joe Johnson and Phoenix

Boozer and Cleveland

Brand and Clippers

Sacramento and Artest

Joshes and Hawks

Everyone of those cases probably could have been turned out better for the original team if it had only offered decent contract extensions the summer before. Instead, each GM tried to take advantage of the market to save a few bucks. What GM's and owners must realize is that the NBA is a player driven league. You cannot run player negotiations as if they were middle management at IBM. Players have leverage that simple economics can't quantify and that is fan loyalty. If Josh Smith leaves and becomes an all-star as a Maverick, he will take fans with him. The fans that remain will blame mgmt for the loss and won't show up to games. In todays NBA market, sometimes you have to take a short term economic hit for a long term gain. Contracts aren't just for 1 year, they are for multi years. You pay Smoove 12 million a year not just for what you know he is in 2008, but for what he will be in 2010. Hell we gave JJ a 70 million contract after he avg 16ppg in Phoenix. He now avgs 25ppg 3 years later.

If the ASG can't see that then they need to break up the team and start over.

It cuts both ways though JB. That same Phoenix team that let JJ get away, grossly overpaid for Diaw. Why? Because they didn't want to lose an "important" player.

Utah has AK47, who is grossly overpaid partially because they have a guy in Boozer who is much better than him. Utah has to now assess the value of both Boozer and Okur, while paying Deron. The giant sore of a contract on that team, is Kirilenko's contract.

NY has terrible contract situations all over the place because they grossly overpaid for everybody.

Cuttino Mobley will make 9 MILLION DOLLARS next year.

Troy Murphy, I think, will make 11 million.

Adonyl Foyle once made 9 million a year.

Tim Thomas once was making 11 million.

Diop is making the full MLE, just to take up space in the middle.

When does it stop?

In Josh Smith's situation, you can definitely make a case for him making top dollar. And you can easily argue against it. The thing with Smith, is that it's his defense that will win games for you and not necessarily his offense. So the Hawks have to put a value on him.

Last year, there's no way in hell you give him a deal like Bogut got this year, just to keep him out of the marketplace. The same goes for Deng. Gordon, now he had a pretty good offensive year in 06 - 07, so a case could be made for him getting paid. But then again, the Bulls knew he was pretty much an undersized SG that may be more of a detriment, than he is an asset at times.

But look at all of the RFAs that haven't signed deals. As much as fans want to blame the ownership, it's these agens and players who are holding out for top dollar. And the top level guys like Smith, Okafor, Ellis, Biendrins, and Deng, all probably want a Bogut-like contract.

Question is . . . do you pay them, or do you wait them out? If they're all willing to turn down 10+ million dollar a year deals, I say you wait them out.

With Chill, if the reports are true, we were just unfortunate that some FIBA team goes crazy to obtain Chill. No one in the NBA was about to do that.

overpaid veterans, what does that have to do with Smith and why should we be stupid becuase others were.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It has to do with Smith and especially Childress, because those guys got their huge money deals when they signed their 2nd contract.

Are you saying that the ASG should've paid Chill 8 million+ a year, and that they should pay Smith 12 million+ a year?

[Johnnybravo4]

My argument is if they would have offered Chills a 5 year 35 million contract and Smoove a 6 year 60 million contract in 2007, then we wouldn't be in this situation. Instead we lowballed them, told them to go "F themselves" and "find a better deal" That is exactly how Sarver did JJ.