(Poll)How to spend money involving Chillz

[coachx]

[frosgrim]

Use Childress in an SnT

[coachx]

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Use Childress in an SnT

Could we get more then: L. Jackson, Richardson, K. Brown, and Morris for Chillz in a sign and trade ? If we do get more "talent" would their contracts be short or long term contracts ?

Here is where I am coming from:

I would not mind allowing Chillz to go to Greece if it is going to take a escalating deal starting at $7 mill to keep him. If he approaches $9 or $10 mill in the last years of the contract it could really burden the team to pay a 6th man/wing that kind of money when your center depth chart is reading Horford , ZaZa, Solo.

I would rather:

1. renounce Chillz

2. get Richardson and L. Jackson who could be signed at $500 K a piece on one or even 2 year deals.

3. then split the MLE over 2 or 3 years with K. Brown and Morris for depth at center. They're both a legit 6'11'' with both having more skill, strength, and length then ZaZa.

This would tie up money for only 2 or 3 years instead of 5 or 6 with Chillz. Meaning when JJ, in 2 years, and Al Horford, in 3 years, are up for a new deals we have some flexibility to resign them both. (unlike with Chillz who would be making $9 mill as a 6th man taking away funds to resign the REAL building blocks).

Not to mention Law's rookie contract will be up in 3 years and could be legit starting PG for a really long time.

I like the longterm flexibility and depth this alternative gives us.

I would entertain a sign and trade. We would have to get back short 1-2 year contracts back with better players then the combination of: Brown, Morris, Richardson, and Jackson.

[crimedog]

Look, if Chil walks we offer money to Sasha V who plays for the lux taxed out Lakers. If you offer Vujacic 3m per, Lakers probably match. Something closer to 5m per makes them think because they'd effectively be paying $10M for Sasha this year and with Bynum's extension coming up they might think it best to let him roll.

If we get Sasha you can think of it more like a trade than losing Chil because we wouldn't spend that money otherwise.

[frosgrim]

My take is that you should never loose a player for nothing. That is squandering resources. Using Childress to help out with filling out the roster is, IMO, necessary. Jackson/Richardson probably doesn't equate to what we were getting out of Childress. Further, we still have depth problems. Jackson and Richardson are on the roster to fill the 8-10 spots on the bench, not the 6th. Childress should be used to get back one or two players that help fill holes on the club. We obviously won't get a single guy that does what Childress does, but we can get, in theory, guys that do other things.

This team is in desperate need of shooter(s) and a slasher. We also need bench rebounding and some toughness. OK City has guys that we could really use, and with the youth on their team, they need some serious leadership. Hence, we could try and work out a deal for guys like Chris Wilcox or some package that gets them out of contract that they don't want but would be useful to us.

One thing that amazes me is that bad contract can be traded. BK showed us all that really bad contracts can be moved. Hence getting back a "bad contract" for a season along with a real piece is part of the NBA salary game.

The other issue is that Bibby can still be moved to move the Hawks away from the LT. Bibs can be traded now or in Feb. In either case the contracts coming back could be arranged as to give the Hawks just enough wiggle room to avoid paying the LT, which ownership doesn't feel like paying.

In all, I think there are a lot of options to explore with Childress and this Greek idea is probably a ploy to get the Hawks and other teams moving on an SnT.

[exodus]

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My take is that you should never loose a player for nothing.

I'll take nothing over a scrub and a late 1st which is what the Hawks would get for Childress. Nobody is going to give up a quality player for a middle of the road RFA.

In recent years the best player that a team traded in a SNT deal to aquire a RFA is probably Diaw which should be self explanatory.

[frosgrim]

We don't get Childress' salary as a free-be. We are over the cap even if Childress leaves; therefore, we only have the MLE to offer. That money right now appears to be slated for Kwame and/or Morris. Therefore, we can't go after anyone else.

If it comes down to between another slasher or shooter and one of those bigs, then I think you have to go with the bigs and hope that you can move Zaza for a shooter or slasher.

[coachx]

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This team is in desperate need of shooter(s) and a slasher. We also need bench rebounding and some toughness.

I think we want the same thing.

Its just which pieces and how many pieces can we get for a fixed amout on salary. That fixed amount being whatever is left below the luxury tax after Smoove is paid... to be split between the $5.5 mill MLE and minimum salaries.

We could go "all in" for a one player replacement, like Wilcox. I like Wilcox, he would be a definite upgrade but doesn't he make $7 mill or more pwe year ? We could not trade Chillz for him any way with his BYC status. However, I thing a tandem of Brown and Morris would equal Wilcox's production while saving a few dollars. Those dollars saved could go to 2 shooters with size lto play SG and SF like Jackson and Richardson.

In my mind if Chillz walks and we spend the MLE and go up to the luxury tax limit with decent vets making minimum salaried contracts then we really are not allowing him to walk for nothing.......B/c if we resigned Chillz and Smoove we would could not spend any of the MLE without incurring tax/

[exodus]

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We are over the cap even if Childress leaves; therefore, we only have the MLE to offer.

No

We have the MLE and the LLE. If we resigned Childress (or traded him for someone) we wouldn't be able to use the MLE and LLE in full because it would put us over the luxury tax.

[coachx]

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Look, if Chil walks we offer money to Sasha V who plays for the lux taxed out Lakers. If you offer Vujacic 3m per, Lakers probably match. Something closer to 5m per makes them think because they'd effectively be paying $10M for Sasha this year and with Bynum's extension coming up they might think it best to let him roll.

If we get Sasha you can think of it more like a trade than losing Chil because we wouldn't spend that money otherwise.

So we have a Sasha fan here. The guy can shoot when hot, I'll give him that. He would be an effective spot up shooter but he is not the kind of guy you over spend for. Sasha is soft as Charmin's Angel Soft.......he got ran over by the 40 year old Sam Cassell in the the 4th quarter of a Finals game and his definition of defense is flopping all over the place. This guys is far too soft and his defense next to Bibby would be distaerous. He is also too small to play the SF, unlike Richardson and L. Jackson..........He could be effective next to Law's dribble drive penetration only when the dominant SGs of the league are taking a breather so he does not have to defend an allstar SG or much larger SF.

Sash for $5 mill

or

Jackson $500 K min deal, Richardson $500 K min deal, (Brown & Morrisplit $5.5MLE) = $6.5 mill total salary.

As long as Smoove takes $11.5 mill or less as teh base year (which should be easy) we will have the $5.5 MLE and $1 mill of minimum salaries to offer players before we hit the tax.

[frosgrim]

For clarification, isn't the LT applied at the END of a season? if that is the case, then it shouldn't be a worry now. However, it its applied throughout the year, then its a problem.

This all assumes the ASG doesn't re-think and allows Sund to into LT land by a million or two.

[exodus]

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For clarification, isn't the LT applied at the END of a season? if that is the case, then it shouldn't be a worry now

That is easy to say when you aren't the one paying it.

You are forgetting something though. Teams that are under the luxury tax receive payments from the teams that are over the luxury tax. That is how the luxury tax works.

So if the Hawks are $1 million over the luxury tax next year they could lose $4 million, not just $1 million (i believe teams under the luxury tax received $3 million this past season).

[TheDude]

my problem is that if he goes to Greece we get nothing out of it..no sign and trade, nothing...and the problem with that is that his cap hit would be much much lower than if we signed a comparable player from another team, due to him being a restricted free agent....so essentially we have the option of him being restricted for nothing, because he essentially goes to another team as if he was unrestricted.

he goes away, we have LESS cap room to sign a comparable player. much less..what cr.ap.

[frosgrim]

It depends on what how the ASG sees there expenses.

You let Childress walk with NO compensation, and back fill with players like Kwame, Morris, Luke Jackson, and Richardson, you have weakend you team. While Jackson appears to be healthy, I don't think the guy can be that 6th man that Childress was. Jackson is more like an 8-10 player. Richardson hasn't stuck with the other NBA teams he was with, so there is no reason to think he's more than a 12th man. Kwame and Morris help fill the gapping hole at center. But now the Hawks are left with only the LLE to find a guy to come in and play significant minutes and score. That isn't going to fly in terms of winning games.

The Hawks are already near the bottom of the NBA in attendence. You let Childress walk and the PR hit (= season ticket sales) takes an even larger hit than when they resigned Woodson. More losses also equates to less attendence. More wins, esp. in Atlanta, equals greater attendence. Thus if you are talking about a million over in LT, that "lost" income is more than made up in higher attendence and the playoffs.

[Swish]

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My take is that you should never loose a player for nothing.

I'll take nothing over a scrub and a late 1st which is what the Hawks would get for Childress. Nobody is going to give up a quality player for a middle of the road RFA.

In recent years the best player that a team traded in a SNT deal to aquire a RFA is probably Diaw which should be self explanatory.

Let me get this straight...you would take nothing over a bench shooter/defender AND a first round pick?

What have you been smoking this morning?

[exodus]

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you have weakend you team

If you trade Childress for a late 1st and filler you have weakened the team as well.

If you resign him to a bloated contract then you cripple the teams ability to add complimentary players that actually fit the team.

None of the options are great but if you really think that we can get equal value for Childress in a SNT deal then you are completely ignoring history.

[exodus]

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My take is that you should never loose a player for nothing.

I'll take nothing over a scrub and a late 1st which is what the Hawks would get for Childress. Nobody is going to give up a quality player for a middle of the road RFA.

In recent years the best player that a team traded in a SNT deal to aquire a RFA is probably Diaw which should be self explanatory.

Let me get this straight...you would take nothing over a bench shooter/defender AND a first round pick?

What have you been smoking this morning?

You are assuming that we would get a useful player in a Childress trade which tells me you must be smoking something. Good players don't get traded for RFA's.

[coachx]

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It depends on what how the ASG sees there expenses.

You let Childress walk with NO compensation, and back fill with players like Kwame, Morris, Luke Jackson, and Richardson, you have weakend you team. While Jackson appears to be healthy, I don't think the guy can be that 6th man that Childress was. Jackson is more like an 8-10 player. Richardson hasn't stuck with the other NBA teams he was with, so there is no reason to think he's more than a 12th man. Kwame and Morris help fill the gapping hole at center. But now the Hawks are left with only the LLE to find a guy to come in and play significant minutes and score. That isn't going to fly in terms of winning games.

The Hawks are already near the bottom of the NBA in attendence. You let Childress walk and the PR hit (= season ticket sales) takes an even larger hit than when they resigned Woodson. More losses also equates to less attendence. More wins, esp. in Atlanta, equals greater attendence. Thus if you are talking about a million over in LT, that "lost" income is more than made up in higher attendence and the playoffs.

I would rather "back fill players" then over pay for a 6th man and tie the franchise's hands for 6 years. Especially when it appears Smoove wants to be over paid as well. We simply can't over pay to keep both Josh's.

Also a lot of what you write is totally up for interpretation as with my own post. We seem to just have different interpretations or outlooks:

1. For one I don't think one seat in Phillips is filled b/c of the presence of Josh Childress. You may think their will be a PR hit for losing Chills but I don't see it as long as we can fill out the bench using the MLE. I can see that some fans may stop coming out if Smoove is not brought back but not with Chillz. Simple difference of opinion on the PR results for losing Chillz ,I guess.

2. You may me think that Chillz will give us less then the combo if (Brown, Morris, Jackson, and Richardson) but I don't. Chillz energy was helpful in many games. However, I believe we lost games due to the lack of outside shooting from the wings which is necessary to properly space the floor for a half court offense to flow. I also believe we lost games due to the lack of an inside presence once either Smith or Horford got in foul trouble. Brown and Morris are upgrades over ZaZa here to me.

3. ZaZa's $4 mill expiring contract could easily be used to obtain a more ideal "6th or 7th" man at the wing if Jackson and Richardson fail to produce.

4. Acie Law could be our new 6th man. I like the idea of playing Law and Bibby together with JJ at SF. Especially when other teams go small. Not to mention that Speedy's health seems to holding up.

Let me add that I would love to keep Chills at a reasonable contract. However, with the Greek offer out there it seems as it we would have to over pay to keep him. A contract starting at $7 mill and escalating to $9 mill is really over paying for your 6th man. I simply do not want to over pay on a long term 5-6 year contract for a 6th man. If over pay for both Chillz and Smith well be bumping the luxury tax limit without even filling out the roster. I know its easy for you to say, who cares, when its not your money being spent. I think we are lucky the ASG is willing to go tp to the tax line but I would not expect them to pass it.

[frosgrim]

I think we are actually pretty close in thinking.

My take on the PR issue comes from two sources. Its just bad PR to loose out to the Euros, no matter what the sport. Second, you may loose the team. That may not happen if there is strong lockerroom leadership, but I don't see that leadership in Atlanta right now.

The idea of trading Z for another swingman might just work. This, of course, assumes that there is a trade out there. That might not be the case.

I think I said it in this thread, Childress at 9 mil per year is way too much so I am on board with that completely.

Nonetheless, get something for Childress is better than nothing. I am just not following the logic of that the Hawks will have more room to sign someone without Childress' salary. Yes, the Hawks are close to LT land, but the Hawks are already planning on using the MLE on two players, plus some minimum contracts. So, where again is the depth on this team that has no depth?

Again, this is a tricky mess the Hawks find themselves in and it will take some forethought to get them out of it. But to just throw away a #6 overall pick is really a bad move. Espc. for a guy that has regard throughout the NBA.

If the LT is really a problem for the ASG, then they should really look to move Bibby and hope for the best. Maybe Ridenour and Collison and a filler from the ex-Sonics. One of those guys can then be move later. The Sonics can also reap a huge reward with trading Bibby for other pieces at the trade deadline.

[Peoriabird]

Sign Maurice Evans/JR Smith plus sign K. Brown, Jackson, & Richardson,